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Indeed so John, in fact I've always been quite certain that the concertina sound you hear in the film (including the scene in question) is that of Alf's metal-ended 1937 Aeola, #34523, which I owned for a few (precious) years. But meantone tuning of English concertinas died out in the second half of the 19th century, and there's no question that Alf's Aeola was made in anything other than equal temperament, and at A-440 pitch (which was already commonly in use in dance bands in England at that time due to musicians taking to using a lot of American brass instruments and Saxophones - and Alf was playing in one of the leading bands then, that of Jack Payne!)

Does anyone know of an English concertina tuned such that any of the notes are different on push vs pull? For example, I'm wondering about a meantone-tuned instrument with a D# and a Db on one key, extending the range of keys. I have my doubts about the practicality but wonder if it has ever been tried and/or could be practical.

I have never heard of anybody trying such a thing but I doubt it would be of practical use. Currently with the 14 semitones to the octave on the English it is possible to play scales in Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A and E without going 'out of patern'. To me 'out of Patern ' means that some consecutive notes of a scale will occur on the same side of the instrument. To test this play a scale of Eb. Each consecutive note will be on opposite sides of the instrument. Now do the same thing starting on D#. Straight away the first two notes ascending will be on the same side. This out of patern scale will get worse as one moves into ever flater and sharper keys. The importance of this regularly alternating patern becomes evident when playing chords , for the memory of the shapes, and transposing , where the memorised logic will take the player to the correct buttons. What I am saying is that to extend the sweetness of a Meantone tuning system into more remote key signatures than those 'in patern' keys would not be practical. At the outer edges of these eight key signatures problems might already begin to occur .

Jeffries' default tuning was 1/4 comma (though with a twist), which is sweeter (perhaps excessively so?) but too far from ET to work, and it sounds "extreme" to ears accustomed to ET. 1/5 comma is a much more acceptable and versatile temperament, and it's what I'd usually tune Meantone instruments to. I try to keep Cormac Begley's high pitch Ab/Eb in its "original Jeffries tuning" for him, and he thought he wanted 1/4 comma on his A-440 one too - but he found that (as I'd already warned him) he couldn't play it with other people until I changed it to the 1/5 comma I'd recommended in the first place. On a "concert pitch" concertina (C/G Anglo or English system) I'd centre the tuning around an A that's tuned to a "zero" of 440Hz, whilst concertinas in other keys would have their "relative A" tuned to zero.

I've used 1/5th Comma on my concertinas for many years and never had a problem playing in sessions with ET tuned instruments. Even with other concertinas, which would be the hardest test , but for the most part sessions and bands in the traditional music scenes play in keys close to the centre of the meantone tuning I use. For me the great advantage is the sweetening of the harshest chords and the ability that 1/5th Comma allows to play close harmonies , particularly 3rds. Running a passage of major thirds, which creates an almost 'second voice' effect when used in company with other melody instruments, is a very pleasant adjunct to the repertoire of playing techniques. Using 1/4 Comma with other fixed pitch instruments in ET might start to raise eyebrows, probably most likely with fiddle players, who's sense of tuning I generally find to be more acute. Other squeezebox players generally assume their instrument is in tune and don't bother listening to others.

Hi Bob, It is really interesting to see some experimentation with alternatives to equal temperament among modern builders. Since you seem to have introduced this topic to get feedback, I have a couple of responses FWTW. But as always, my general suggestion to everyone is that the more players (and those who make and set-up instruments for them) explore a wide range of alternative tunings, the wider and more expressive a musical palette we can have available. Not every experiment will work, but far better to try them and (if necessary) abandon them than to remain within the very narrow world of 12-tone equal temperament that so many 20th century musicians were taught as the "rule" for "in tune." First, I understand the values you give in "cents deviation from the values for equal temperament" are approximations. But to make more clear to everyone reading, it looks as though you are going for "1/4 comma meantone" or something close to it. To actually achieve this, all "correctly spelled" major thirds would be acoustically pure. 1/4 comma meantone is only one of a large family of meantone temperaments. In the 1990s I tuned a C/G 31 key Crabb from the 1880s in 1/4 comma meantone and used it very widely in many keys for many kinds of music. True, as Dave says, in keys such as F and Bb the instrument will be progressively a little sharp relative to ET instruments at A 440 and going around the circle of fifths to the "sharp keys" of D, A, and E the instrument becomes a little flat on average relative to ET instruments. But if you set your center pitch appropriately, the keys of A, D, G, and C and their modes are not too bad. Many flute and fiddle players routinely hit notes that are more than 10 cents flat or sharp of the ones they are targeting :-). Then, many fine flute and fiddle players are actually targeting notes that far (or more) from the ET equivalent to achieve the intonation effects they prefer. So a 1/4 comma concertina is not so useless in public performance as some might suppose. Second, as a suggestion, many players of a G/D might prefer a Bb to the A# you used. In meantone temperaments of course the two are not equivalent. Using your convention for notating deviations from ET, at about the same precision you are suggesting, the Bb would be set around +17 Again Dave makes a good point that meantone temperaments gain a lot more subtlety and flexibility when you increase the number of pitches per octave. He is right about the early English concertinas having a 14-tone scale with duplicate enharmonics (Ab vs G#, Eb vs D#). On some vintage anglos (*not* tuned in 1/4 comma meantone BTW) there were duplicate enharmonics tuned to different pitches, such as D# vs Eb for a C/G anglo or Bb vs A# for a G/D anglo. Very large anglos such as the interesting 50 key Jeffries I recently sold may have additional pairs of duplicate enharmonics. If you could find a place for it in your button layout, you could offer the player *both* the A# you chose and the Bb I suggest..... as Crabb and Jeffries often did. Keep up the good work and best wishes, Paul

Well Don, in reference to C# /Db these are the same note in Equal Temperament and unless one created a keyboard with separate buttons for these two notes and used an altogether more complex tuning system we can only use the C# button for either note. In the example I have given (G,Eb,Db,Bb) Bach gives us an arpeggio of Eb7 in which the C# ,in 1/5th Comma Meantone, is perfectly sweet as a replacement for his written Db... So although I had no possible alternative the 'whichever sounds best' rule has applied itself. When discords do appear they show us the extent of the possible use of a Meantone tuning and we should perhaps retreat to a more useable key or go for Equal Temperament. One clarifying point to Bellowbell's question; choosing the wrong enharmonic ( which is usually the one that is out of pattern on the EC, unless you are in a really far out key) can negate the ability to easily transpose the tune to another key . If we take the Hayden duet, as an example of which enharmonic one would choose , notice that the Eb's and Ab's are on the left side of the keyboard and the G#'s and D#'s and on the right.....and it follows that when one is playing in keys like F# and B it naturally follows that G# and D# would be used and when one is playing in Bb and Eb it is the Ab and Eb that are used. I can see that Bach's G,Eb,C#,Bb arpeggio is quite a stretch on the Hayden. Geoff.

In 2016 Geoffrey published a simple list of offsets for 1/5 comma meantone tuning centred on the key of C. Is there a similar list for 1/4 comma meantone?

In the days before equal temperament, all instruments were tuned to just or meantone temperaments so that fifths and thirds were closer to simple mathematical ratios (2:3, 4:5). Then, the semitones were of different sizes, and each key did have a different feel. A symphony in D minor would sound different (possibly sadder) than one in E minor. Now, with instruments all in equal temperament and all semitones the same size, unless you are a very unusual person with absolute pitch, the sound should feel exactly the same in different keys. That said, the ergonomics of certain instruments makes playing in some keys easier than other keys. An example is the standard violin who's strings are tuned in fifths from low G (G, D, A, E), and hence 'prefers' playing in sharp keys (of G, D, A, E) rather than flat keys - but in the hands of a really good player can play in any key. An extreme case is diatonic instruments like 20 button Anglo concertinas, or two row melodeons, which can only play in two keys, and lack the sharps and flats for other keys. These days, for melodeons, that seems to be the keys of G and D, and given the prevalence of melodeons in sessions, a lot of English sessions seem to play predominantly in G and D. Scottish fiddle tunes are often played in A or D. The English concertina is chromatic (has all the sharps/flats), and hence can play in any key, and the logical layout from Sir Charles means it's not any harder to play in two flats than in two sharps. Despite that, I find that nine times out of ten, I play tunes in G or D (or their relative minors), in order to fit in with the crowd. I would actively encourage you that when you have learned a tune in one key, while it is in your head, to shift it to a couple of other keys. Shifting up by a fifth (G -> D) is trivial on the EC - shift up a row and add one more obvious sharp. Shifting down by a fifth is similarly easy. If shifting down gets too low, then shifting up by a fourth (G->C) is equivalent, and is very similar, other than the finger pattern is mirrored to the other hands, which is a good practice exercise! I hope this helps.

Here are the figures I use for 1/5th Comma Meantone. One just needs to use any tuner set to Equal Temperament and off set each note accordingly: C +6 . C# -8 , D +2 . D# - 12 . Eb +12 . E -2 . F +8 . F# -6 . G +4 . G# -10 . Ab + 14 . A zero . Bb +10 . B -4 . Currently both my EC's are tuned in this fashion and I am most content with the results, in fact I have exclusively used 1/5th Comma for the last 30 years.

Not to muddy the discussion or anything : It is probably best to consider meantone and just intonation as solutions for a single "major scale," or at least for closely related scales (like G and D or perhaps F C G and D). Those tuning solutions are optimized for nice thirds within the diatonic scales. Yeah you can extend the concept to a chromatic situation, but the solutions get less and less useful as you move away from the note upon which you base the tuning. The last part of the previous sentence brings up another issue: You need to select the starting pitch for your meantone instrument. Probably for trad players that would be G or D. If you use C you will already have a less than "as good as it can be" third in one basic chord in G and in two basic chords in D. The Vallotti article mentioned above will help in understanding that issue and will also shed some light on my contention here that meantone is essentially a diatonic solution. As to tuning to meantone vs. ET or some other system: What listeners and players respond to is the accuracy of unisons and the acceptability of various other intervals, thirds and fifths being the most noticeable for most folks. Most folks don't discriminate pitch differences less that 10 cents (and surely not less than 5 cents) when two notes are presented separately and without any harmonic situation given. They do much better presented with a unison of two pitches or with fifths and thirds. You can retune your instrument to whatever tuning and perhaps it will satisfy you better. In a group situation with other instruments ET it will probably not bother. That is so because in many cases our perceptions will adjust what we hear to what we want to hear. Consider the 7th in the bagpipe scale. It is conveniently perceived as major or minor (relative to the fundamental note of the chanter) depending on what mode you happen to be playing in. Psychoacoustics is a fascinating field! A little example from my past: I had a fine chamber choir with two well trained musicians singing tenor. One "heard" the kind of a third just or meantone intonation might have. The other heard "Pythagorean" thirds, as large or larger than the ET thirds. Every time the tenors had the third on the end of a piece they refought the battle as to which was correct! In sum: diatonic tunings are really nice to listen to, and many musicians playing instruments like violins learn to adjust their tuning "on the fly" to the key center they are playing in at the moment. For those of use "stuck" with chromatic instruments that can't be retuned while playing and on which we play in many keys ET is an acceptable solution as are the solutions discussed in the Vallotti article. But mean and just "just" won't work well. OK...flame proof suit donned.

WES AND DAVE AND FOLKS: didn't realize that Young and Mrs Wheatstone were "paesani". . . . . . i certainly did not mean to imply that Hz and cents were the same. . . .obviously they are two quite different -- and even unrelated -- things. . . . . . . .the former measures the absolute frequency to which things are tuned (if i may put it so crassly), while the latter measures the distance between the half steps. . . . . . thus in equal temperament, from c natural to c sharp is 100 cents. . . . ..in quarter comma meantone it's only 76 cents. . . .so that if one plays a D-major scale that "leading tone" is going to sound rather flat. . . . . . . Wheatstone, of course, got around some of the meantone "problems" (they are problems only to our equal-tempered ears) by giving alternate buttons and pitches for the D sharp/E flat and G sharp/A flat. . . . .which is why a number of the tutors from the period can offer the opinion that the concertina is more in tune than any other wind instrument. . . .. but this is another story entirely..........one having to do with the juxtaposition of a keyboard instrument against a violin, wind instrument, or voice.............. clearly, one could have meantone temperament or equal temperament or any other temperament regardless of whether the a' is tuned to 440, 452.5, or anything else. . . . . . . what is also interesting is the tolerance that audiences must have had back then. . . . . .for instance: in 1846, Regondi gave a recital in Dresden, accompanied by Madame Louis Dulcken (piano teacher to the royal family). . . . .one must presume that she played an equal-tempered piano (that temperament having been in use for quite some time on the Continent). . . . . .on the other hand, there is no evidence that Regondi used anything other than a meantone concertina (no one seems to think that Wheatstone and the other manufacturers converted from meantone to equal that early). . . . . .yet never did any of the reviews even hint that the concertina and piano were out of tune. . . . .one reviewer mentions that the concertina is truly chromatic (that is, differentiates between D sharp and E flat and between G sharp and A flat). . . . . .but that's all he has to say. . . . . . . i often demonstrate my meantone concertina using a piece by George Alexander Macfarren titled BARCAROLE. . . . .here Macfarren has the concertina sounding an "a flat" (moving towards the a natural) against a C-augmented triad (C - E - G sharp) in the piano. . . .now even if the English piano against which the concertina was playing was in meantone (still another separate problem), the piano's single note for the G sharp/A flat pair would almost certainly have been G sharp. . . . . . .thus when the concertina player hits the A flat, there's a forty-one-cent twang between the two notes. . . . .the twang, however, is over in an instant. . . .and the ear takes it in stride. . . . .i know this because i've sometimes used the same instrument to play the "Prayer" from Molique's Six Characteristic Pieces. . . . .the Prayer is in E major. . . . . . . .and, after telling the audience what they're in for, i will play the piece sometimes using the G sharp, sometimes using the A flat. . . . . .no one ever winces more than once................... Berlioz, on the other hand, railed against the instrument's meantone temperament. . . . saying that it was the work of scientists, not musicians. . . . . .remember that he would have come to know the concertina when he served as a judge at the exhibition of musical instruments in 1851. . . . . . as for Young's well temperament. . . . . i've recently had wim wakker tune a late 1860s instrument to Young's well temperament No. 2. . . . . . .i use it when i take obbligato parts in performance with the New York Victorian Consort. . . . . . the audience reaction has been altogether positive. . . . .they have said that it provides the concertina with a little "distance". . . . .keeps it from being swallowed up by the piano and the voice when we're all in unison. . . . . .on the other hand, i do not use the instrument in a piece that has two long passages in G-flat major, at which point Young's temperament is furthest removed from equal temperament. . . . .when we play in unison here, it begins to sound a bit "edgy". . . . . . . . . . the entire problem is a very knotty one. . . . . . .especially in terms of what temperaments were in use when. . . . . . .specialists still argue vehemently about what temperament Bach had in mind when he wrote the Well-Tempered Clavier. . . . . . there is more than a little evidence that it was NOT equal temperament. . . . .nor does "well-tempered" imply equal temperament. . . . .it implies that he used one of the various "well" temperaments. . . . . . .nothing more than that...............allan POSTSCRIPT: one of the things that i've found most enlightening is moving away from theoretical discussion and actually using the meantone and Young-tuned instruments in action, both unaccompanied and against equal-tempered pianos. . . . .as i said. . . ..the ear adjusts very quickly. . . .AND NONE OF THIS, OBVIOUSLY, HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HZ 440 or 452 or anything else.......allan

Have any of you who have tried quarter-comma meantone ever noticed the extreme beauty of the B-flat seventh chord, and its various inversions? I am assuming the wolf fifth is placed between G-sharp and E-flat. Then the chord Bb-D-F-G# (yes, G#, not Ab) sounds like nothing you've ever heard before! I think it works because a meantone G# is very close to the true seventh harmonic of Bb. This chord reminds me of a fine freight train horn -- especially if you invert the chord so that the G# and Bb are together, for example G#-Bb-D-F. In quarter-comma meantone you can almost play in the key of Eb. Only the Ab note is missing, replaced by G#. A simple melody in Eb major sounds great, as long as the G# note is used only as the seventh in a Bb seventh chord. For that matter, just the two notes G# and Bb sound really good together. It's a wide whole tone, consisting of two diatonic semitones, rather than one diatonic and one chromatic. Try it, you'll like it! Bill Smythe

Dear Jim, I don't have the last word on this subject and am working to clear up my confusion also, but this may help. One of many excellent references on tuning and temperament (but with an emphasis on keyboard instruments such as pianos, harpsichords, clavichords, and organs) is "Tuning," by O. Jorgensen (1991, MSU Press, E. Lansing, Mich.). I don't treat this reference as infallible but it is a major work. The history of tunings through the last few hundred years is a complex subject; very notable sources have published seemingly authoritative statements on the subject that turned out to be wrong (Wim Wakker lists one example elsewhere in this forum), and the final story has yet to be (will never be?) written. Most of us who received introductory music lessons of some kind in the 20th century have been taught a vocabulary/set of concepts that actually makes it harder to understand the music of the nineteenth century and before. One example is the entry under "enharmonic" in the New Harvard Dictionary of Music; the author's point of view is so centered in the "equal temperament" paradigm that you could easily come to the false conclusion that "enharmonics" are/were ALWAYS the same pitch. Enharmonics (such as the two notes of the pair D#/Eb) were assigned different pitches in meantone temperaments. In fact, Quantz introduced "enharmonic" keys for the transverse flute so that D# and Eb could more easily be given different pitches (each note having its own key), much as I believe Wheatstone did in his english concertina fingering system. In the paradigm of equal temperament, enharmonics are "different names for the same pitch," and in the "well temperaments" there is only one pitch for the two notes D# and Eb, but it might not be centered between D and E. D# and G# in the sharp keys and Eb and Ab ih the flat keys are simply the first enharmonics you have to deal with when you center the circle of fiths in the natural notes ("white keys" of the piano - or early english): D# - G# - C# - F# - B - E - A - D - G - C - F - Bb - Eb - Ab (the 14 tones of the english tina) Meantone temperaments are so called because the fifth intervals are tempered, that is, they are not assigned the pitches that would make them acoustically pure or "just." These fifth intervals are slightly tempered in equal temperament ("narrow" by about 2 cents from just) but in equal temperament the fifths are pretty good. String players sometimes take care not to tune their open strings in pure fifths, but I suspect many traditional fiddlers use these slightly wider untempered fifths of just intonation, so that if their A was right on their E would be sharp relative to equal temperament, their D flat, and their G flatter. The discrepancy with equal temperament may not be noticeable to some. In the meantone temperament that is most commonly discussed, (1/4 comma meantone), the fifths are much narrower than in equal temperament (around 5.4 cents from just) and beat noticeably. However, the major thirds are pure (just) in 1/4 comma meantone, and differ greatly from the harshly beating wide thirds of equal temperament (about 13.7 cents wide from just). These sweet untempered thirds of 1/4 comma meantone provide a very beautiful harmony unfamiliar to many modern ears. Especially since harmonies in thirds are so natural to the english concertina, and since free reeds have harmonics that make the wide major thirds of equal temperament particularly unmusical in the mid to upper register, I would like to see every english concertinist experiment with 1/4 comma meantone temperament at some stage in their education (see post by Allan Atlas who uses both). Many will find that on their equal tempered instruments they have developed a habit of playing fifth intervals, which do sound harsher in meantone. Mr. Wakker suggests one of many compromises available between these two alternatives. Wim, I know Young's tuning is well-deocumented for keyboards but have you actually recorded this from a period english concertina? Your statement that it was "used in the nineteenth century" is ambiguous on this point. To close (for now), I and others who should know better often use the term "tuning" loosely for a system assigning pitches to named notes. But according to Mr. Jorgensen we should be careful to call every such system a "temperament" if one or more of its natural intervals has been altered from just or acoustically pure. So there is equal temperament (ours divides the octave into 12 equal parts, but one could also have a 10 tone equal temperament, etc.), 1/4 comma meantone temperament in which the fifths but not the major thirds are tempered, etc. Jorgensen only uses the noun "tuning" in this context to refer to just (untempered) scales, or to the results of a tuner's work. (See his glossary, and extended discussions under each of the scales). Jim, you are a pioneer in the concertina revival and we all owe you so much for scavenging and preserving the instruments and fostering new players. There are other great collectors out there as well who got a jump on the current market. All of you are in the best position to help us learn more about the original pitches and scales of the old machines, as most of today's players have only one and immediately retune it to modern standards. I await more dialog (and corrections, I'm sure!) --Paul

Francisco, you could check that easily with a tuning app which has "temperaments" included: 4 or 5 comma meantone, try different center notes (C, G, D) as well - maybe you'll find a match.

It should be noted that Alan teaches the harmonic English style of playing and not the fast, ornamented melodic Irish style, so if Francisco wants to play Celtic music then Alan Day's tutorial might be misleading. However, the English style is chordal and might be useful if he wants to play in a more South American style. Francisco: another point to note is that you say your concertina (a very nice one, by the way) is tuned to A=440Hz but that a few notes are a little off tune. It might be that it has been tuned to something other than equal temperament, maybe 4th or 5th comma meantone. This is sometimes done to sweeten the sound of thirds on a concertina, something that might be very important to a player of South or Central American music.

Audsley in his 1905 The Art of Organ-Building, describes organs in England being tuned in meantone temperament "until very recently" and adds that "all the organs in the Great Exhibition of 1851 were tuned in unequal temperament". I've read elsewhere that British small church organs were tuned in meantone well into the 20th century, since organists accompanying services never played in extreme keys. It's been mentioned here before, but a good read that covers the whole temperament argument is Ross W. Duffin's; How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony (and why You Should Care) Steve, if you get used to playing a meantone concertina, you'll never want to play one in equal temperament again, unless you really have to! Adrian

Michael, If you use the cnet advance search; type in Paul Groff you start getting interesting posts and topics like these in General Discussion: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2913&amp http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=229&st=0&p=1949&fromsearch=1entry1949 In Instrument Construction and Repair type meantone and Paul Groff: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8345&st=0&p=81073&hl=meantone&fromsearch=1entry81073 http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8331&hl=meantone&st=0 http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1056&st=18&p=10151&hl=meantone&fromsearch=1entry10151 And there is lots more out there for anyone who cares to use the advanced search feature. Certainly some food for meantone and 1/4 comma thought. (Some of this will make your head spin!) Greg

Many thanks, it was a pleasure listening to your fine playing. Thanks for making the video, there was some effort involved in that but it demonstrated very well meantone compared to ET. Liked how you demonstrated some of the dodgy bits where notes can clash. I do enjoy playing my 1/5 meantone english concer.

quarter comma meantone might be more likely historically

Good idea Wolf. I found a table on line with over 100 temperaments. The closest matches all appear to be in the meantone family.

The clouds are parting and understanding dawns! I found an old thread on this topic, and Geoff provided "note deviations from EQ in cents". I plugged my results into his chart assuming that the tuning is centred on A (my values are in in Bold) and this is what I got: 1/5 Comma; A= 0, Bb= +10 12, B= -4 -4, C= +6 4, C#= -8 -18, D= +2 2, D#= -12 -28, Eb= +12 12, E= -2 -6, F= +8 12, F#= -6 -18, G= +4 2, G#= -10 -18Ab= +14 17. So except for my sharp notes which are more extreme, it looks pretty close to 1/5 comma meantime centred on A, with A being around 444.5 HZ. Does that sound reasonable? Maybe the approach should be to leave it in the meantone tuning, but bring the whole thing down to modern pitch? I fear my ignorance is showing, but the only way forward is through!

At a quick glance it looks like a Meantone temperament. As a rule of thumb for this, and similar temperaments, all the sharp keys are flat and all the flat keys are sharp, of some some central point. It is not unusual to come across EC's from the 19th century which were originally tuned this way.

Opps yes Dave, I got the wrong gist of your post there alright... sorry. The problem with Meantone systems is that by adjusting note pitches to provide sweeter intervals in certain Keys , some other Keys have to suffer. In the case of an EC, with its seperate buttons for Ab and G#, D# and Eb the well tuned Keys can be extended by one in each direction... one flater key and one sharper. Whilst one can make a good major scale as far flat as the key of Ab and as sharp as the key of B, when one wants to make a simple accompaniment in those keys and need to employ chords of Db and F# for the purpose the results start to become quite sour. This limits the usable Keys in Meantone on the EC to Eb,Bb,F,C,G,D,A and E majors and their relatives. With out the enharmonic notes, ie by choosing to tune either an Eb or a D#, an Ab or a G# as one might need to do on an Anglo or Duet, the range of usefull keys would be reduced by one in each direction. Of course if one is utilising chords further away from the Key note of a tune or modulations occur then further limits on usefull Keys will be imposed.

Not necessarily Jody. Let me try to explain: The centre point (or Key) I use on the EC is C. this equispaces the useable keys like this ; AB,Eb,Bb,F,( C ),G,D,A,E , so we have four Keys sharp and four Keys flat of C. The 'Reference Zero' note is in regard to the Diapason. So, one might use A as Zero, as in 440hz but A is, in a Key sense, not so close to C. So one could choose a different Zero in reference to Standard Pitch. I have used both G and D for this but look what happens: Note deviations from Equal Temperament with A as Zero ( for 1/5th Comma Meantone). C= +6 , C# = -8 , D = +2 , D# = -12 , Eb = +12 , E = -2 , F= +8 , F# = -6 , G= +4 , G#= -10 , Ab= +14, A= 0, Bb= +10, B= -4. With D as Zero; take 2 cents off each of the above. ( meaning to use D as on a Tuner set to Standard Pitch) For C as Zero subtract 6 cents from each of the above. Etc. Etc. Of course this will make the whole instrument flatter. This moving of the reference Zero can be used to place the notes in the best possible position for playing with certain instruments that are not tuned to Equal Temperament. Changing the Key Centre note is usefull if your range of keys is spread more to one side or the other... so on an Ab/Eb anglo it might be better to use Eb as the centre Key and chose a zero note that did not make the concertina too flat or sharp overall in comparison to the International Pitch standard. PS; It might be worth a listen to some more recordings I made for the Tune of the month forum... you can find these on Soundcloud.com by searching 'Geoff Wooff'. They are not wonderfull recordings but the one called STE-007 is interesting for this topic because I played the tune in seven different keys in one take. The other 1/5 Comma recordings are Valencia Harbour and STE-031. PPS; My reason for using a Meantone temperament on the EC is because the Major thirds are a very easy and usefull harmony , on this keyboard, which sound so horrible in ET especially on a metal ended model. This way I am not restricted by the need to invert chords or otherwise re-arrange harmonies.