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Looking for Hayden duets
David Colpitts replied to datnameis's topic in General Concertina Discussion
I imagine you have already considered the trade-in value of the Elise if used towards the purchase of a new Concertina Connection instrument? In my case, that would be 400 dollars or so towards a Troubador, Peackock, or higher-level Wakker. I still haven’t heard any real user reports on the Troubador, but have spent a bit of time on Peacock and Beaumont; liked ‘em both a lot. And, in some circles, for some music, the Stagi is well-received. I’ve seen used ones for 4 or 5 hundred, so depending on your requirements, might be an interim machine. But please don’t buy an older, first-run Bastari 46 button....they are too nice, and I want it as a spare.....Seriously, they are very sweet and playable in their own way, and I love mine. Just hope it keeps running. David -
If you're talking about an Anglo concertina, a 30 button is a 20 button plus an extra 10 that you can choose to ignore. The 20 button part is a standard layout common to all Anglos. (Strictly speaking, there is some variation in the pull note on the lowest left hand button on the inside row, but that will not affect a beginner.) So any tune learned on a 20b can be transferred with no change of fingering to a 30b. Which is best for a beginner? The 30b is more versatile, but if I had a limited budget and could only buy one instrument, I'd rather have a good quality 20 than a poor quality 30. There are arguments both ways.
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Sraith den scoth! They were very lucky to film this beautiful series before Covid hit us. Táim ag baint an taitneamh as!
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Dear Folks, I had such a blast presenting my first web-based zoom solo concert last Saturday with 30 or so attending from the US and UK as part of the virtual Black Creek Old-Time Festival. Many of you missed that live show and asked me to produce another one. Here it is... Jody Kruskal's Zoom time, fun time, old-time concert event #2 Sunday, May 31st from 3:00 to 4:00, US eastern standard time (that’s starting at 8 in the evening, UK time). Here’s the Zoom link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81083231337 One tap mobile +16465588656,,81083231337# US (New York) +13126266799,,81083231337# US (Chicago) Dial by your location +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 301 715 8592 US (Germantown) +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) Meeting ID: 810 8323 1337 Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/kdV9ugRzlN This event is free and I hope you enjoy it. If you do... consider tipping me at Paypal.com in my name. The tip jar is open and any amount is very welcome, just go there and do it. The more I get, the more time I will spend producing future concerts. If you like what I do, then it’s really a win win deal, so dig deep and show me some love... the kind I can buy groceries with. Just like my successful concert #1, I plan to broadcast selections of prerecorded music and play along, interspersed with song and tune selections that are 100% live performance. You are all welcome to play along too (muted of course) and it’s great for everyone to see you all participating with your instruments and smiling faces... singing and playing along. So please do turn on your video and be a part of the show. There will be some brief time to chat as well. Please pass this on to any friends you like, but do not share this link on facebook, twitter or general social media. I don’t want to get Zoom Bombed. See you Sunday! -
Thanks Łukasz, very helpful response with all the info I was looking for. I'll have to take some time and think about budgeting towards the beaumont or the peacock, and it seems due to the covid crisis many of the manufacturers are on a hiatus. Thanks for the help and hopefully I get what I'm looking for.
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Rattle Bone joined the community
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I'm a newcomer to AC. I have a 30-button but am still in the "20-button" section of Gary Coover's Easy Anglo 1-2-3. It's best if you can get a good 30-button AC. By "good" I mean the Morse Céilí, or the Clover, or something comparable, or a vintage from a reputable restorer. Realistically, we are talking about $1500 and up. But for whatever reason you can't or you don't want to spend that much, get a good 20-(or 26-/28-) button. I'd rather have a good 20-button than a so-so 30-button. But from that I know, there is no new hybrid 20-button, thus you're limited to "vintage" for a 20-button. I've seen good 20-/26-/28-button vintages for less than $1000.
- Yesterday
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Looking for Hayden duets
Łukasz Martynowicz replied to datnameis's topic in General Concertina Discussion
Nowadays you have the following options, in price order: Stagi, then Troubadour & Peacock from Concertina Connection, then Beaumont from Morse Concertinas, and finally Wakker H-1 & H-2. Note range wise the list goes as follows: 36 button Troubadour, 42 Peacock, 46 Stagi and Wakker H-1, 52 Beaumont, 65 Wakker H-2. That is all. -
Check out this thread for more 20-button playing: -Lep
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If you meant "can I ignore the extra buttons and play it like a 20 button concertina?" here are my 2 cents... You can make a lot of great music with a 20 button concertina, but eventually you might feel limited. For some good examples of 20 button playing, look up some recordings of Mrs. Crotty. I don't think you'll have any regrets with a 30 button. The third (extra) row is an accidental row with all your sharps/flats. The other two rows should be more or less identical between the 20 and 30. The accidental row adds a whole lot of options and the opportunity to play a wider range of tunes. If you do decide to go the 30-button route, look closely at the accidental row layout of both the Wheatstone and Jeffries layouts and see which one fits you better. Depending on your budget, a Rochelle from concertina connection is a good place to start. Best of luck, Lep
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I play on an elise hayden duet, and have been since I started playing, but recently I've been wanting to upgrade to a more versatile hayden duet. I've checked around online but it seems duet concertinas don't get much attention, let alone the hayden system. Anyone have any reccomendations on where I can find a nice hayden duet? I was looking at the stagi 46-key but stagi concertinas tend to have a lot of problems straight from the manufacturer.
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Thanks for the replies, i will contact Zak
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To a large extent, it depends on the type of accordion, which you played, and also the style of music you'd like to play. If you have played a diatonic accordion, you'd have no problem playing a concertina. The concert pitch Anglo Concertinas come mostly in C/G or G/D. (C/G would more suit Irish Traditional Music, and similar folk musics, whereas the G/D would suit you more, if you wished to play in the harmonic style or accompany yourself or others singing.) With the C/G you have 2 keys, in which you can play straight away, however if you wish to play in other keys, e.g. in D, F and / or in A, you'd quickly run into problems due to the lack of C#, B𝄬 and G# notes, which typically you would get on the 3rd row. If you played a chromatic accordion, B/C or C/C#, it might initially take a little while to get used to the arrangement of notes. You could check out concertina makers, who have put fingering charts up on their websites.
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I watched the opening figure and chorus That's a stately pace and many older dancers would struggle to make it flow that slowly.
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Oh yeah, it can definitely be hard to tell whether the pinkie is just along for the ride sometimes. It doesn't help that the motion is so quick, either. It's great that Adrian could chime in to give a more definitive answer about his own playing. I haven't examined a lot of John Kirkpatrick's playing, so I guess I have to plead ignorance here. He definitely spends a lot of that video using his right pinkie to brace the instrument. I also see him repositioning the first three fingers to reach buttons (a little after 5:50) and at other times using the pinkie (clearest example starting from 7:20), which is kind of interesting. I wish I could also see what his left hand is doing. Overall, my impression of that video is that he uses the pinkie as a brace whenever he can, but it does come free quite a few times, and I can't always tell the exact reason. If you do get the chance to ask him about it in person, I hope you'll come back to this thread to share what you learn.
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Music sounds great to me . I love hearing great Morris tunes out of context. So many are really nice tunes, but you tend to lose the loveliness in the clatter of sticks and the weird pacing the dancing requires.
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Thanks Adrian. I couldn't quite see from you videos just what you were doing. Your approach seems to be similar to mine, especially on the 40-button where some of the buttons are a bit of a stretch. I've more or less copped out of trying to play standing up, and when performing with the band I use a high stool so I am at the same level as the others but can support the instruments (melodeon or concertina ) on my thigh. When singing, I also tend to "dangle" and maybe tuck it into the top of my thigh for bit of extra support, but I am usually playing simpler arrangements of mainly chords and arpeggios. May I add that I very much enjoy your videos, and I've recently got hold of a 'Garden of Dainty Delights' which has some great tunes. Howard
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Slightly off topic, but perhaps relevant to the issue of how best to notate for the Anglo. In "our" book, there was one tune: Belle qui tiens ma vie that we notated in treble and bass clefs, with the button numbers above each of the two staves. I asked Gary to do this specifically because it was a four-part tune and I thought it was important to see the individual lines in a horizontal sense, rather than simply a succession of button numbers. To use this on an Anglo, you really need to write the whole thing an octave below how it would sound on a CG, with the happy coincidence that most of what you play on the right hand will be in the treble clef and the left hand on the bass clef. (Right hand button 1 push becomes middle C.) Now to my question - how did you find that Anglo players? Did it make sense? The nice thing about learning this is that it opens up a whole world of keyboard scores that you can theoretically play on the Anglo, although in practice of course, you often need to simplify or edit them somewhat for reasons of range or missing notes. Adrian
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Using the pinkie when playing anglo
adrian brown replied to hjcjones's topic in Teaching and Learning
Hi Howard, I use my pinkie on both hands, especially for the lower buttons of the left hand (1 and 6) while on the right, I use it more for the "extra" buttons on the end of the middle and inner rows of the Jeffries 38, which having 7 buttons across the middle row, I don't think I'd have a chance to reach otherwise. These provide me with the reverse e and f, which in combination with the reverse c and d on the end of the inner row, allows you to play more legato. I think playing while standing is a different issue though and I used to do it a lot more than I do now. I tried to block the instrument between the strap and the palm of my hand, so that the angle of the hexagon sat in the cusp of the palm. Does that make sense? Once it was there, I found it was possible to balance it in combination with the angle of my forearms. Again, I'm not sure how this is going to sound, but it felt a natural way of doing it and gave me the flexibility in my fingers that I needed. I used to rehearse playing standing and if I didn't do it for a while, I sort of lost the habit and found I needed to go back and start again with simpler tunes. Ultimately though I started having strange pains in my arms and hands and I decided to stop for fear I might damage something. I still like to stand when singing, since the arrangements are normally a bit easier and I can sort of dangle the Anglo in a much lower position for my arms. I hope this helps, Cheers Adrian -
Thanks Jim, I remember dancing Glorisher as a teenager down in Sussex and ending up on my back in a rose garden after the last chorus - those were the days... I found this video of the dance on youtube, but it does seem to me the musicians are a trifle optimistic in their choice of tempo. You play for dancers all the time, what do you think? I would love to be able to do justice to the Sharp piano arrangement of this tune, but it needs some adaptation to play it on the Anglo and I've never found a solution that works. Adrian
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More Renaissance Polyphony on Anglo concertina
adrian brown replied to adrian brown's topic in Concertina Videos & Music
Thanks Jim, I ran a workshop for "Early Music on concertinas" at the Witney Supersqueeze weekend a couple of years ago and I think it was one of my favourite teaching experiences. We did pieces in several different styles and even added diminutions for those who could manage - I'll see if I can did out a recording of one of them. Adrian -
Dating A Lachenal From The Serial Number
Robin Tims replied to johnconstable's topic in Concertina History
Hello Dowright, If of interest would you care to add to your excellent database: Lachenal Anglo 32b C/G . Very nicely restored by Andrew Norman Co, Shrewsbury UK Solid Rosewood ends. Bone buttons. 6 fold 'original' bellows. Steel reeds. Extra buttons are Whistle and Squeak. Reedpan Serial 23681 Bellows Serial 23296 Believed to date pre 1878 (Louis Lachenal) but 6 fold bellows may have been substituted for 5 fold in 1882 possibly during a repair. Plays very well. Any comment most welcome. Photo attached. Regards and thanks Rob -
In reply to schult, my video check wasn't very thorough and I've only looked at a few. I don't always find it very easy to tell whether a pinkie is being used to play a note or is simply "floating" while another finger is used, and the camera angles aren't always helpful. However I definitely notice this with John Kirkpatrick, who is someone I've watched closely for many years. I'm not saying he never uses it to play notes but often it is used to support the instrument. See here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD42nuQHRpk But he has big hands - I have a very similar instrument (40-button Crabb ) and I can barely reach his contact point, and then I can hardly move the other fingers. I certainly agree with gcvoover that all the fingers are needed to play notes, at least where my own playing is concerned. I guess what I am interested in is the trade-off between added stability (especially when playing standing) and using fewer fingers. It would be interesting to hear from players who habitually do this. Coronavirus permitting, I'm still hoping to go to JK's workshop in October so maybe I'll ask him then.
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Hello Faf. I have mailed you a note. Hello Jim. Thank you for your kind words. I hope you are well. Cheers. Zak.
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Meantone Tuning on Anglo Concertina
Wolf Molkentin replied to Mike Hulme's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I guess this is what I wanted to suggest as well (centering around C instead of D) 😉 -
Meantone Tuning on Anglo Concertina
Little John replied to Mike Hulme's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
All the experience I've come across on this site (including my own) is that this is unnecessary. With 1/5 comma tuning other musicians simply don't notice that you're tuned any different from them. It makes sense to minimise your deviation from ET if you plan to play with other instruments. Curiously, that doesn't mean you centre your tuning on your most commonly used key. If G major is your most commonly used key (which for many it is - largely I suspect because of D/G melodeons) then you should centre your tuning on A. In your case, if G minor (relative minor to Bb) is your most common key then tuning for that means centring around C. But as I said earlier, centring on A will cover all bases adequately. LJ
