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This may or may not be a direct answer to your question, but I sometimes I discover as I gain speed in a tune that I need to rethink my fingering. I may have too many changes in bellows direction that become distracting musically or just plain hard as I increase in speed, for example. Also, I have begun to play more chords for accent and find I may need to be in a certain bellows direction or on one or another hand to make the tune make sense. The a and g on the top row are becoming more useful to me after years, and I wished I had familiarized myself with them earlier. So I definitely move out of the rows more.
- Yesterday
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I tried to upload pictures . It wasn’t working from my phone
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Nice old Jones Rosewood ends. Good condition. $1400.
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Reed tuning query - more or less ?
Dana Johnson replied to Sprunghub's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
The belly of the reed, (generally the central portion of the reed ) is where changes in thickness effects are balanced by changes in weight. Metal removal there will affect the pitch little or not at all, while lowering the overall stiffness and power of the reed. If you are making your own reeds, you file the belly to bring the reed in line with the stiffness of its neighbors so they will respond at similar pressures. For an existing instrument, assume that has already been done, and the bellies are where they should be. I tend to restrict my tuning to the first and last quarter of the reed length. Weight changes nearest the tip and thickness changes near the root are most effective , meaning the least metal removal. When initially filing a reed, you need to blend toward the belly to have a reed that curves evenly. I agree with Alex that 40 cents is weighting range for the low to midrange. Mind you at some point you will add a bit of solder and file nearly all of it away again. Still, you haven’t weakened the reed. I use Kester low temp. Silver containing lead free solder with a synthetic rosin core. Other solders that require an external flux generate a very corrosive condition unless very well cleaned and chemically neutralized. The Kester solder wets the steel very well, and I wipe off the flux with a piece of tissue paper as soon as the solder freezes. Generally, I slide a piece of silicone rubber sheet under the reed tip. It lets the reed tip heat fast and the flux doesn’t stick. It also takes the temperature of the melted solder. One nice thing about solder is that it is both fast and reversible. Especially for lower reeds, a loss of strength by filing to lower pitch makes them more prone to flattening in pitch under increasing pressure. I have seen otherwise nice instruments that had reeds so weakened that they were very pitch unstable. -
What our concertinas look like?
gcoover replied to new english's topic in General Concertina Discussion
Hey Bob & Marcus, yes indeed what a lovely instrument! Jake has done a masterful job. It's not quite as loud and bright as my Herrington (but then again no other hybrid has ever come close to any of Harold's instruments), but it's solid and very well built, plays with a lot of dynamic range, bass is clear and not muddy (a problem with many hybrids) and it is a pleasure to play - that's the most important part, yeah? I love the stainless steel ends - there will be no problems with pitting or corrosion like the nickel silver on my Jeffries Duet. I'll do a full review here on cnet once we work out a slight problem with the button dampers (leather for now, not working as well as felt). Re: videos. Be careful what you ask for! I've not posted for awhile due to moving to a really noisy environment and having a problem with the tuning of one reed on the Herrington, but... now that I've got this fantastic new instrument look for a few pirate tunes as well as 75(!) videos of cowboy songs coming soon to an internet near you. Gary -
Reed tuning query - more or less ?
Don Taylor replied to Sprunghub's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I use a lot of 2-part epoxy when working on various boat projects. If you de-wax/degrease the metal before lightly roughening the surface to get a bit of 'tooth' then it should stick for your lifetime. But do not touch the cleaned and roughened surface with your finger before applying the epoxy - there are enough contaminants on your finger to inhibit adhesion. I rarely use epoxy alone, I usually add some sort of filler powder to change it's final characteristics. I have not tried it but I imagine some very fine lead or steel filings could be added to increase its density. Depleted uranium would be the best of all, but hard to find at the lcal hardware store! -
Reed tuning query - more or less ?
alex_holden replied to Sprunghub's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
40 cents is a big enough shift that I would be weighting the low reeds a bit. The amount of weight you need to add reduces as you go up in pitch, so what I do is start at the bottom and work my way up. At some point I find I'm adding such a minuscule amount of solder to the tip that it's not worth the trouble and I switch to just filing them. There's too many variables to clearly describe in words how much filing you need to do. We're probably talking about removing less than a thousandth of an inch of thickness. You can easily remove enough (or too much) metal in a few seconds of filing. -
Yep, that is the one. Thanks for finding the proper name. Don.
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Reed tuning query - more or less ?
Sprunghub replied to Sprunghub's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Hi Alex - thanks for that information.....firstly, yes, I am aware of the principal of not doing too much ( if anything ) until pads and valves have been done. I broke that rule re. that 'F' because it was so far out and annoying but I have held fire on the rest. Ultimately it is almost in ( a ) tune. Pads etc are imminent, hence me asking before messing anything up. I have 600g diamond needle files and a high quality ultra fine metal needle file ( and shim material ) from bike carb work and general fettling. I also have a good stock of crafters emery boards in varying grits for final polishing. I had pre-ordered a 600g 1/4" stick file so should have the basic tools. I have ( or rather the wife has ) downloaded the Tonalenergy Tuner onto her phone this pm. At the pre-set 440hz, those 90% of notes that are obviously sharp on the Snark tuner are all showing a miserable red face and around a fairly consistent 40 cents or so "sharp" on the TET, so I have 40 cents to come down, either by adding or taking away. Needless to say, I don't know how much 'grinding' is involved in coming down 40 cents ? It may be a couple of passes, it may be a lot ( or a few more ) ? It would be useful to know if anyone has that knowledge? I am guessing it is a fairly typical project to convert from A.N. Other standard historical tuning ? It is a Lachenal Salvation Army 'Triumph' instrument, 1910's / 20's I think, in origin, S/N 4062 ? The 2- part epoxy resin, for what it is worth, is not likely to come off the reed once cured unless cut/filed off. It would probably bond as well as solder, without the heat implications, albeit with marginally less weight by volume. It is also possible to shape it on/after placement and potentially bond wire or a small shim, which was a slightly left-field option to increase the weight centrally on the reed, but probably one best not admitted to among true artisans! -
Very odd valves in otherwise nice anglo
Steve_freereeder replied to Theo's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I've done the opposite too. On my Dipper there was one note which was obviously sounding louder than the adjacent notes, but otherwise responding very well. Replacing the vinyl spring with a slightly longer narrow strip cut from a vinyl melodeon valve did the trick and the note now sounds balanced with its neighbours. -
Hello, Have you pics please Thank you Best regards Gael
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Name those 3 tunes game (Breda Shannon & Bernie Geraghty)
papawemba replied to papawemba's topic in Tunes /Songs
wow that was fast !!! Thank you Takayuki :-) -
Name those 3 tunes game (Breda Shannon & Bernie Geraghty)
Takayuki YAGI replied to papawemba's topic in Tunes /Songs
I suppose Tune1: If We Hadn’t Any Women In The World https://thesession.org/tunes/1376 Tune2: The Little Beggarman https://thesession.org/tunes/566 -
Hello ! Just when I was thinking it's getting difficult to find tune that I wan't to learn, just found 3 tune played by Breda Shannon & Bernie Geraghty class. I really like them !! (trying to tab this out right now :-) The tune name is pronounced out loud but I don't understand at all :-/ What do you think they are ? Tune 1 Tune 2 Tune 3 Is the name "less doesn't matter" (jig) !? Thank you and enjoy ! Best
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Very odd valves in otherwise nice anglo
Theo replied to Theo's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Corrected -
Reed tuning query - more or less ?
alex_holden replied to Sprunghub's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Hi Sprunghub, I think it would be a good idea to change to a tuner that gives you an error reading in cents (a cent is a hundredth of a semitone, BTW). I use a smartphone app called Tonal Energy Tuner, though there are lots of them out there. Do the valve and action work before tuning because that can alter things by a few cents. I don't recommend scratching concertina reeds, and I only use traditional steel files for profiling a new reed. I do the majority of my tuning work with a 400 or 600 grit diamond needle file. The ones Eternal Tools sells are very good: https://www.eternaltools.com/files-burnishers/small-diamond-files I use solder weighting if I need to make a fairly large change to a reed's pitch, particularly if it's a low reed. Fine tuning I do with the diamond files. Where exactly to file depends on how long the reed is, but in general try to spread the filing out a bit; you don't want to cut a notch right at the clamp. No idea on the resin. My main concern would be how well it sticks; is there any chance it might fall off a few months later. -
Very odd valves in otherwise nice anglo
alex_holden replied to Theo's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Or maybe "if I lift a valve"? -
Very odd valves in otherwise nice anglo
RogerT replied to Theo's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
Theo ... 'if I left a valve while the Reed is sounding'.... do you mean left a valve off or a helper spring off? -
I respect those who can. It is my problem. Maybe I am too lazy to deal with it.
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All my previous postings have related to my wife's search for an instrument and subsequent selling thereof when it proved a bit too 'challenging' for a beginner. She is now the happy and improving owner of a modern Clover Anglo, so "off my case" so to speak. Immersed as I was in helping her find something 'nice', I have taken on a 'project' to fill my time. I am a fettler rather than a player at present, so have picked up a pretty rough Lachenal Crane 35b which I have rebuilt at one end, reinforced the other and made a new 'old' handle from some 1850's mahogany and done some very basic work to get it playable in lieu of a full valve and pad replacement which is in hand. I have cleaned the reeds and tuned the oddity of the high F which played F on the pull and E on the push - albeit the carrier was appropriately marked. Both now show correct in tune F on my 'better' Snark tuner. I am aware that all the reeds, within a degree or two on a tuner dial ( I don't understand "cents" ?) consistently show as being almost 2/3rds of a dial above the mid-point on the Snark, ie. 'sharp' over and above the desired note by about '7' snark degrees against the 'note' on the button. Presumably this is 'old' style tuning ? One or two are a 'notch' up or down on that and the very odd one is out of kilter altogether but most show as being pretty closely matched on the pull and push in the same range. I am now faced with the potential for re-tuning the reeds and understand that is done by either removal of metal from the 'belly' ? is that the correct term ? of the reed towards the fixing point ? or as seems less promoted, by adding weight at the tip. Low melt solder seems to be the done thing, although for fine tuning I have read of elements such as nail varnish being used. I am not keen to be working with heat and solder and I am guessing the level of change means nail varnish would be too light weight to make much odds. I have a few very basic questions to clarify re reducing / increasing the weight. Q1 re weighting the tippets of the reed blades. Albeit potentially heretical, so apologies in advance to the experts and purists! is there any reason in principal why cold-cast metal resin can not be used on the reeds in place of low melt solder to add weight to lower pitch and eliminate the need to scratch or file. I ask because of it's ease in working and prior experience of working with it. It is also relatively easily rescuable/reversible if needs be. Q2 If the above is a 'no-no' because of some engineering principal re the tippet etc, on "scratching" / gouging vs. diamond filing. Given the degree of lowering required for 90% of the reeds, how much scratch(ing) / filing is likely to be necessary to get the pitch reduction and given whatever that level of work is,.........is scratching ( to remove metal ) or filing to be preferred ? I do not like the look of 'scratching / gouging' to be honest, but am happy to be guided by those with experience. Q3 Re. the point at which to file ( or scratch ) on the reed, to lower the reeds by the implied amount, I have seen various terms applied to the correct point on the reed at which to work. Generally from/at around the mid-point of the reed, although some seem to suggest it should be done closer to the fixing point/clamp ......or is it a question of reducing it from the mid point towards the clamp rather than working at just one point? I have worked with metal resin on a number of projects and have some confidence in its ability to be worked and fettled/filed in much the same way as solder, hence my asking. I don't have a tuning box/rig, so it'll be have to be done in situe. Any advice much appreciated.....
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Very odd valves in otherwise nice anglo
Theo replied to Theo's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
I knew that the Dippers sometimes used valve helper springs on larger reeds, and I've sometimes done the same myself. The concertina I'm posting about has them on every valve right up to the highest pitches, even the top few that probably don't need any valves. A quick experiment shows that if I lift a valve while the reed is sounding there is an obvious increase in volume. -
Steve, I’m not sure left handedness is the reason for it not feeling right when you have the left hand end static. I could say almost exactly all the things you said and I am strongly right handed. Martin
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Thank you Ken and Dana
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Very odd valves in otherwise nice anglo
Steve_freereeder replied to Theo's topic in Instrument Construction & Repair
My Dipper G/D anglo has the larger valves similar to such as Theo has described: leather with a thin vinyl 'spring' held in place by a thin leather 'dot', just like you see on larger accordion/melodeon valves which have the thin steel spring. I cannot imagine for one moment that Colin Dipper, being such a superb maker and craftsman, would use this type of valve as a botch or a trick. Admittedly, his vinyl springs are generally shorter and lighter weight than those in Theo's photos and the valve construction is neater too. One advantage of the vinyl spring and leather dot is that the valve resistance can easily be adjusted by carefully trimming the length of the vinyl spring to make it lighter, or if more resistance is needed, by removing the 'dot', substituting a longer spring and regluing or replacing the dot. No need to remove the entire valve. Photo of the LH reed pan of my Dipper anglo attached. You can see the vinyl springs and dots on the larger valves. -
So, an elegant solution is to substitute the LH G row pull A for C#. This GA button is duplicated in the LH on the top C row button, so in fact you lose nothing, and with a tiny bit of practice you can play in D. I tried this on my lovely little Jones and the reed went straight in, with a little strip of card for packing, no mods required. If you play in the Bramich style you rarely use the pull A on the G row anyway, and if you need it, it is there on the C row. The position of the C# feels very natural, with a great D scale pull run across the rows, and a pull C#, E third on the LH, so for my money it’s a pretty neat little mod, easily reversed in a few minutes. You just need to find a reed of similar size and tuned properly.
