Little John

I'm no expert, but I was under the impression South African instruments often have ten or so folds. Could that be its origin?

And I believe a member of this forum has one of them, in rather battered condition and awaiting conversion to the Crane system ...

Very nice sound. I expected to listen on my laptop but it actually came out through the hi-fi!

There's no accepted definition of "long scale" but generally longer reeds are considered to be better. They have more dynamic range and more sensitivity to low pressure (the two are linked). It's subjective, but they might also have a better tone than shorter-scale reeds. LJ

I agree with pretty much everything John @Anglo-Irishman says, in particular pointing to the way the nature of the limitations of the Elise and the 35 button Crane differ. However one point needs to be corrected: not all chords are available on the LH of a 35 button Crane. Specifically A major, Bb major, B minor and B major are not. (Neither is Bb minor, should you ever find a need for it!) But it requires the addition of only two or three buttons to overcome most or all of this deficiency. On the RHS of a 35 button Crane the significant notes missing are the top A and B. The 48 bu

Interesting question and a good starting point. The Hayden and the Crane both have an obvious logic to their layout. (I think Brian Hayden once said on this forum the he probably wouldn't have invented his system if he'd been aware of the Crane at the time.) But their logic is very different and what might suit one person might not suit another. So it would be good if both systems were readily available to try out. There's a curious reversal in availability. Reasonably-priced Haydens are available (Elise and Stagi), but vanishingly few high-end concertina-reeded Haydens exist. The

I hoped you would! I'd love to do so myself but I don't have a Windows machine to run your programme on. LJ

I don't really see why, unless you're misreading the layout. Fourths are the "problem" (like they are on a Crane anyway); the two notes being in the same column. For the same reason open fifths are the "problem" on an English. But not really a problem in either case. Or is it something different I've missed?

I'm sure many Hayden/Wicki aficionados would say "yes", but it is not my intention to re-open that debate! I'm prompted by the posting of this unusual duet. It's similar to the Wheatstone duet (but with five columns instead of four) and to the continental (or "chromatic") button accordion (and Tona's custom concertina, with three rows (rather than columns) arranged by the same principle). I'll refer to it as the Five Column Chromatic system, or 5CC for short (making the Wheatstone duet the 4CC system). Below is attached a button layout. Some of us in the earlier posting were scepti

Sorry! Misread "dispensable" as "indispensable". Deleted content but can't remove post.

You're right, of course, David! The mental image I had was that eleven iterations brought you to the twelfth note, leaving an interval of a fifth to return to the start note; that fifth being equal to the others only if the tuning is ET. That's what I was trying to describe in the rest of the paragraph. Your clock analogy is nice. In ET the hours are the same length. Mean tone tuning (1/4 or 1/5 comma) makes the last hour too long while Pythagorian fifths make it too short.

This is one good reason to centre on A, but there's another. It may seem counter-intuitive but centring on A actually minimises the deviation from ET in the popular keys of G and D. I suspect there's a bit of confusion here (which also arose in an earlier discussion of temperaments). Ben, Paul and I are using "centred" in the sense of "matching ET" and tuning the other notes relative to that. The other notes will move increasingly far from ET as you go round the circle of fifths. Eleven iterations round the circle of fifth brings you back to the note you start

Nice looking instrument! As a matter of interest, what is the button spacing? (See my previous reply above.) LJ

It's a odd choice to have five buttons in a row. The Wheatstone 4-button layout repeats after three rows. A 6-button layout would repeat after two rows; but this doesn't repeat. Still, I suppose that's just the same as a Crane and I get on fine with that!

I don't have any experience of these two books. They probably weren't widely available almost 40 years ago when I started on the Crane. As a result I'm entirely self taught. I realise with hindsight that someone to give me a few pointers would have been useful in the early days but no-one else around me played a Crane and the internet hadn't been invented. I would agree with Kurt and RAc that it's best to use both hands together as soon as possible. As well as this thread there was another fairly recent one on how to finger fourths on a Crane. It made me wonder whether