wes williams

And for many of those 20 years this site has been the first stop-off for experienced players and beginners - many thanks Paul and Ken!

I know this thread is a few years old, but I've just managed to acquire facsimilies (published mid 1980s?) of the first two Gramophone 'Stock' lists, so can add a little more. The first list is in two parts dated 16 Nov 1898, one part is all American recordings, and the other English recordings. The 'English' part lists the following concertina records (without artist names, so I've added them in brackets) 9100 Glory to God [ Salvation Army Staff Captain Linacre] 9102 Honeymoon March [Percy Honri] 9106 Castilda March [Percy Honri] 9107 Happy Darkies [Percy Honri] According to some writers, they were sold out by Christmas. The second 'English' list is dated 22 Feb 1899 and lists: 9100 Glory to God [no performer name given] Mr. J. Collis Bird. 9105 March of the Men of Harlech. Mr. Percy Honri. 9102 Honeymoon March. 9103 Marauder's March. 9104 Killarney. 9106 Castilda March. 9107 Happy Darkies. 9108 The Lost Chord. 9109 Santiago Waltz. 9110 Toreador Waltz. 9112 Selection from The Geisha. 9113 Austrian Hymn. 9114 Lyceum March. 9115 Gramophone March. 9117 High School Cadets. The second list also requests: IN ORDERING please select a considerably larger proportion than you require, or make a double selection, so that we may substitute where we cannot execute from our Stock. Supplementary lists were next issued on 10 and 28 November 1899, from then on supplementary lists were issued monthly. Going on the melody of the 'recreation of the first recording' on the Flexi-disc issued with Peter Honri's book, it seems that 'Happy Darkies' was recorded by Percy Honri again on 29 February 1904 and issued on 7" Zonophone with the title 'The Swanee River Schottische'. I have a copy of this this Zonophone recording on my site.

Numbers were added to the London district code (W.C. here) in 1917, so its probably before WW1. Its a good simple pointer to decide on pre and post WW1 material from the London makers. And if some of those instruments are Edeos, that sets it as probably into the late 1890s/1900s as an earliest date pointer. Are we all beginning to suffer memory problems? I know I do 😕 - see page 2 of this 11 year old thread that I found on google.

They are listed in most London directories as organ builders, but they also sold pianos and other instruments. In 1856 they are at 15 St Johns St, Clerkenwell, and they are at 547 Oxford St by 1865. By 1900 they are at 110 New Oxford St, but that may be the same location as London changed street name and numbering in the 1890s. Imhof's became Alfred Imhof and were a large record dealer in the 78rpm era.

Peter, I think you'll probably find that Maccann would have transposed it to an easier key to play it in, rather than the key in was written in if not an easy key. But if you are trying to estimate the recording speed, the standard pitch for concertinas then was about C=517 Hz which today is C=523.There's a table of notes frequencies here

More symphoniums can be found on the Concertina Museum website. The photos on the right hand side will scroll if you put your mouse pointer over them, and you can see the insides.

And a few words from Brian himself http://www.concertina.com/williams/hayden-chat/index.htm

I found a copy in the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20150303120725/http://www.concertina.net:80/ww_pitch.html Isn't it strange how these things come back to haunt you? At the time I wrote that I hadn't realised that cents were logarithmic. It just shows how much more is now available on the net, and how much more we now know. But I'm quite chuffed that Dolmetsch quoted me and re-used the table.

Randy Merris says c.1898 - see item D9 here

No, I'm not ont' commitee any more. The ICA has an extensive archive of paper stuff that I scanned up and put online before I left. But I also have one or two tapes of Ken in my personal archive. I think one was published by a Morris side, so may still be available.

Malcolm's link is to my site, so I'll add a few more comments. I now have many more release dates for these recordings, and Lumbering Luke was released by Edison-Bell (EB) on a wax cyinder (so pre gold moulded) in 1903 or 1904. There was no copyright until 1912, so this recording could have been 'taken' from the EB one, a practice that was widespread in those early days. Pirate audio arrived long before the internet If you want to hear Prince more clearly, go to the 'Audio' section, and then the Alexander Prince section. The last few recordings were made electrically and are much better fidelity, as are the later acoustic recordings. The project which is the subject of this thread is American based, so has few UK records. But it's worth reminding you that all the USA 'Victor' Prince recordings will have been made in the UK by the Gramophone Company (later HMV) and usually issued either on their 'Gramophone Concert' or 'Zonophone' labels. So the Honest Toil/Diadem record mentioned above will very likely be the recordings released on Zonophone 178 and 206 that were recorded in 1908, although Victor scrubbed out and replaced any of the English markings in the record run-outs. See here for another example.

The latest ICA 'Concertina World' magazine has just arrived, and I was saddened to see that it reports the death of John Holman back in January. For those of you not familiar with John, he was a skilled leather worker, and was responsible for the bellows and cases of the earliest Dipper concertinas back in the late 1970s/ early 1980s. A little more information can be found in this thread. I last saw John a couple of years ago, so was aware that he was battling the big C. A really nice guy, and I shall miss our chance meetings and chats in the local Wiltshire/Somerset borders area.

Many thanks Dan, I'd recently tried to access the original Journal pages (which were on Alex Holden's site) and had got 'page not found' error messages, so I was very pleased to find the announcement here, and that the Journal was still alive and had reached its first publication. I've got lots of interesting reading ahead, so thanks and congratulations to all concerned!

The last one is on a page where you find the style of the ends described on most instruments, so NP - nickel plated, black - all black 'ebonised', so maybe mag means mahogany ends?

If you haven't found it already, Chris Flint's website has a lot about Rock Chidley. All these type of concertinas are playable, but are probably brass reed, so don't have the strength of sound of the steel reed instruments. A valuation is difficult as it would depend how much work it needs to be made playable.