Dating A Lachenal From The Serial Number

[Stephen Chambers]

51 minutes ago, Mike Acott said:

... the end boxes are not split in half like a normal  Lachenal but more like some cheaper continental made instruments. ... I will see if I can get a couple of photos off to you

 

Thanks Mike, I've only ever seen that continental style of construction on early examples of the mahogany-ended Lachenal People's Concertina, and on (the very closely numbered) #9952 that had what appeared to be "Killarney Ware" inlaid marquetry ends.

[Valentin Nnourdin]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:16 AM, wes williams said:

Hi Valentin,

We would estimate Anglo 76103 as circa 1883 and English 35066 as 1897.

Hi,

 

The first number wasn't clear but in fact my Anglo has id 176103, could you date it ?

 

Thanks a lot,

Valentin

[wes williams]

Hi Valentin,

Six digit numbers often have the first '1' hidden by the fretwork. 176103 would be circa 1905.

[Valentin Nnourdin]

Yes that's the case, and the seller wasn't really attentive.

Thanks !

[iconstab]

I am looking at a Lachenal English baritone, 44 keys, slightly raised key areas, number 55209 on metal escutcheon, that has been through Chris Algar's hands so it may already be in your records. I would be interested in knowing its date. Thanks for your sterling work!

Edited November 22, 2023 by iconstab
missed word

[d.elliott]

iconstab,

 

Raised ends = 'a new model' design, 44 keys would indicate that the lower octave or so of reeds are not radially mounted but are parallel, and of a much larger design than the rest of the range, I always think of these as being a 'band design' giving more volume and punch than a 48k fully radial design. The top end of the 48k range being sacrificed to create sufficient space. 

 

55209 serial would be around 1912/ perhaps early 1913.  (based upon research by others) 

[iconstab]

43 minutes ago, d.elliott said:

iconstab,

 

Raised ends = 'a new model' design, 44 keys would indicate that the lower octave or so of reeds are not radially mounted but are parallel, and of a much larger design than the rest of the range, I always think of these as being a 'band design' giving more volume and punch than a 48k fully radial design. The top end of the 48k range being sacrificed to create sufficient space. 

 

55209 serial would be around 1912/ perhaps early 1913.  (based upon research by others) 

Thanks for this. Yes, it's a great box - the sound is not only rich but loud, but still plays reasonably fast. I won't miss the upper notes - I never stray that far on the treble either (bat territory).

[Stephen Chambers]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:10 PM, d.elliott said:

Raised ends = 'a new model' design, 44 keys would indicate that the lower octave or so of reeds are not radially mounted but are parallel, and of a much larger design than the rest of the range, I always think of these as being a 'band design' giving more volume and punch than a 48k fully radial design. The top end of the 48k range being sacrificed to create sufficient space. 

 

I'd very much think of them as being intended to be "band instruments" too Dave, and a strong influence on Colin Dipper's bass/baritone Anglos - like the ones Cormac Begley has.

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Stephen Chambers

[Theo]

I have one that seems to be from the same family but in this case a large size 37 key tenor New Model.

 

[sally roy]

Hi there,

I have an anglo Lachenal 20 button concertina. I don't see a serial number on the outside but a piece of paper that came with it says #165210. I am told it plays beautifully and is in good condition. I am wondering about it's approximate age and resale value. Thank you for your time.

[wes williams]

We would estimate 165210 as circa 1898. We can't give you a resale value as it depends very much on the condition and the amount of work needed to bring it up to playing standard,

[Doc]

Hello team and thanks for such a great website. I am hoping you can date my 20 button Anglo which I inherited indirectly from my great uncle. I am guessing it was bought in or near Bradford.

It looks very similar to the images I found online of Paul Hardy A#2 instrument number 167221 which he dates to 1899.

The only difference I can see is in the fretwork, which appears a little more elaborate on my instrument.

Details are 20 button in bone, 5 fold bellows, steel reeds, wood ends. The number is 166871

It was restored about 20 years ago by Pierre Hooft in Adelaide, South Australia. He did a lovely job. RIP.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[wes williams]

166871 - We would estimate this instrument as  circa 1899 too.

[david fabre]

Hello again !

 

A few months ago I asked for help in dating my Lachenal Bb/F which is apparently made with parts of at least 3 instruments. 

Remember ? it was here : 

 

While reopening it for a little fix, I saw a serial number which I did not see at first inspection, on the LHS reed pan.

I guess I read "158 484" or possibly "258 484".

What does that imply ? 

In last june Stephen's verdict was 1877 for the frames and the ends, and likely later for reed pans. Does that confirm ?

Thanks !

 

 

 

 

[Stephen Chambers]

4 hours ago, david fabre said:

While reopening it for a little fix, I saw a serial number which I did not see at first inspection, on the LHS reed pan.

I guess I read "158 484" or possibly "258 484".

What does that imply ? 

In last june Stephen's verdict was 1877 for the frames and the ends, and likely later for reed pans. Does that confirm ?

Thanks !

 

It would seem to confirm that, yes David. According to the data number 158484 would date to 1898, so 21 years later than the bellows frames (and probably the ends). Whilst 258484 would be too high a number to be plausible, by a margin of around 57,000.

[david fabre]

Thank you Stephen ! Thus most parts of my instrument are at least 125 years.

The bellows is new, I don't know who built it. Not Rosalie Dipper as i don't see her stamp.

I'll ask Emmanuel next time I see him.

Best wishes !

David

 

 

[Flo Clucas]

HI, WE HAVE A LACHENAL & CO PATENT CONCERTINA MANUFACTURER S/N 67813. HOW CAN I DATE IT PLEASE?

[wes williams]

We can only estimate the dates of Lachenal concertinas since there are no records. The number you provide indicates that your instrument is an anglo system concertina made circa 1883, but in quite a few cases a preceding '1' is almost hidden behind the fretwork. Please check this carefully and also tell us how many buttons it has. A few more details or photos would helpful.