Dating A Lachenal From The Serial Number

[Sarah Cardin]

21 hours ago, Richard Mellish said:

Both the strap and the label look new. Has it been in its case for most of its life or does someone reproduce Lachenal straps?

The previous owner bought it refurbished from Barleycorn, so I expect that Chris Algar can answer both of your questions. I can say that the label looks like a reproduction to me.

[david fabre]

Hello all !

 

I recently acquired a lovely Lachenal, 32b, tuned Bb/F (renovated by Emmanuel Pariselle)

I'd appreciate help for dating !

It seems like this instrument was actually reassembled with parts from (at least) two concertinas,

because the left and right reed pans are made of a different wood. The right pan has two

empty slots so it was likely originating from a 36b instrument.

 

There is a serial number 42408 on the frames. There is another number ?589 stamped on the right pan

and "196 93" written with pencil on the left one.

 

Thanks for help ! I'm sending pictures

Edited June 19, 2023 by david fabre

[david fabre]

[Stephen Chambers]

54 minutes ago, david fabre said:

There is a serial number 42408 on the frames. There is another number ?589 stamped

and "196 93" written with pencil on the left one.

 

A composite instrument like this is really beyond the scope of this very long dating thread, but from the evidence you've provided all I can really do with any kind of certainty is to provide a date for the bellows frames which would be 1877, but those solid rosewood ends would be from that period too (later ones were laminated), so they might well be from the same instrument...

 

The reed-pans are later, and the treble one has been spliced with new wood. I'd suspect the first digits of the serial number on the right-hand pan were on the other side of the corner - they usually are.

[Kauriseed]

Hello. Can you please tell me the date of a Lachenal concertina number 4065 ?

This would be very helpful. Thank you, Stephen, New Zealand. 

[david fabre]

Hello Stephen,

 

Thanks for these precious indications. So this little lady is almost 150 years, at least for the dress, Waouh !

I have looked again at the reed pan and don't see the missing parts of the number, alas.

 

Do you think the central piece of wood in the right pan is a reparation ?

If so it seems extremely well made. This piece of wood is only on one side,

it is about 2mm of thickness and perfectly glued to the other parts of the pan.

 

I'm also happy to tell that the instrument plays very nicely, and that Emmanuel did a great job

in the renovation, including a new bellows with traditional design paper covers.

 

The only flaw is a little piece of the wood fretwork which is missing ; it is visible on one of the photos, close to the hand bar on the right hand side.

 

[Theo]

11 hours ago, david fabre said:

Do you think the central piece of wood in the right pan is a reparation ?

If so it seems extremely well made. This piece of wood is only on one side,

it is about 2mm of thickness and perfectly glued to the other parts of the pan.

 

 

That is a repair that looks to me like the work of Colin Dipper.  He explained this method to me some years ago as a method for stabilising a warped reed pan.  Since the restoration was done by Emmanuel Pariselle it is very likely that Colin helped him.  

[Stephen Chambers]

23 hours ago, Kauriseed said:

Hello. Can you please tell me the date of a Lachenal concertina number 4065 ?

This would be very helpful. Thank you, Stephen, New Zealand. 

 

You need to give more information than that I'm afraid, Lachenal's had four different number sequences, for different systems of concertina.

 

A photograph is worth a thousand words of description, and always a great help.

[Kauriseed]

photo of Lachanel concertina for which I am trying to find the date 

[wes williams]

From your photo this concertina is a Maccann duet model, so we would estimate its date as circa 1923.

[david fabre]

On 6/21/2023 at 12:38 PM, Theo said:

 

That is a repair that looks to me like the work of Colin Dipper.  He explained this method to me some years ago as a method for stabilising a warped reed pan.  Since the restoration was done by Emmanuel Pariselle it is very likely that Colin helped him.  

 

Thanks. Indeed Colin Dipper's magic hand probably touched  this one as well (as for two other of my instruments, lucky me !)

[Spud]

Another instrument for your database DoWright.

Lachenal & Co. C/G Anglo, 32key(all notes), bone buttons, Metal ends, steel reeds in brass frames, 5 fold bellows, S/N 104785.

Having read through most of this thread I am expecting about 1888. Thanks for all the good work,

Rich.

 

[Stephen Chambers]

17 hours ago, Spud said:

Lachenal & Co. C/G Anglo, 32key(all notes), bone buttons, Metal ends, steel reeds in brass frames, 5 fold bellows, S/N 104785.

Having read through most of this thread I am expecting about 1888.

 

Not bad at all, but you're a year out - early in 1889.

[wes williams]

Thanks for the info, Rich.

In the database we've got a handwritten note inside 104739 saying 'Bought in 1888 April 26' so you are probably on target at 1888.

Stephen's reply above comes from the approximate estimates we've made, where we'd normally say 'circa 1889' for the date.

[Stephen Chambers]

8 hours ago, wes williams said:

In the database we've got a handwritten note inside 104739 saying 'Bought in 1888 April 26' so you are probably on target at 1888.

Stephen's reply above comes from the approximate estimates we've made, where we'd normally say 'circa 1889' for the date.

 

So you're contradicting your own tweaking of Randy Merris' database Wes, which is all you've given me to go on for providing people with dates.

 

Mind you, there was an "Anglo boom" going on at the time, and Lachenal's production of them was phenomenal!

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Stephen Chambers

[Leanne]

can someone help me date a concertina?

 

I work in a charity shop and one has been donated. It may well be modern, but there is a serial number stamped but we can't find any name of a manufacturer or anything.

 

 

[alex_holden]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:44 PM, Leanne said:

can someone help me date a concertina?

 

I work in a charity shop and one has been donated. It may well be modern, but there is a serial number stamped but we can't find any name of a manufacturer or anything.

 

 

 

Post a few photos in a new topic on the Concertina History forum and somebody will probably be able to tell you what it is. If it turns out to be a Lachenal, this topic is the appropriate place to ask about its age.

[wes williams]

On 7/1/2023 at 6:23 PM, Stephen Chambers said:

 

So you're contradicting your own tweaking of Randy Merris' database Wes, which is all you've given me to go on for providing people with dates.

 

Mind you, there was an "Anglo boom" going on at the time, and Lachenal's production of them was phenomenal!

 

 

 

Most of the dates I circulated were produced a couple of years ago and were based on what Randy had passed on to me as his last estimates, so a few serious researchers had a guide to what Randy would have replied. Would you have had me keep silent and kept the ability to respond to this thread to myself alone?

 

'Your own tweaking' - as you put it - was to simply show that more work was needed, and in one case I simply changed all the anglo estimates by a fixed percentage so the maximum serial fitted better, and the other was based on a more recent date/number report. Both these 'tweaks' were 'what if?' suggestions, which I thought I'd made clear.

 

That's why I always reply with 'circa year' dates, and don't try to interpolate any further. But in the case you are talking of here, there was an entry only around a few months different - which I hadn't noticed before  - which showed that more work is needed in this particular date area.

 

The fact that Randy's estimates provide us an good approximate year of manufacture, when almost nothing was known earlier, demonstrates that we aren't too far from the truth.  Verifiable date/number reports are rare!