'conventional' Representation Of Anglo Buttons

[lachenal74693]

I'm preparing a set of notes to carry around with me - tunes, descriptions of my

instruments, basic musical theory, etc.

 

I want to present the layout of 20/30 button Anglos in the same way as on the

concertina.com site - diagram below, but see:

 

http://www.concertina.com/anglo/index.htm

 

 

The top half of the button is the 'pull', the bottom half is the 'push'.

 

Is this the standard way of presenting Anglo buttons?

 

I ask because I have found the software for drawing these layouts, and the layout

on the supplied 30-button Anglo diagram shows the top half as 'push' and the bottom

half as 'pull' - the exact opposite of what is on the concertina.com site.

 

So, which is the officially approved form, push on the top half, or push on the bottom

half?

 

Opinions please...

 

Thank you.

 

Roger Hare

Edited January 14, 2016 by lachenal74693

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Conventional as per Crabb, Wheatstone & Lachenal, Push - upper. Pull - lower.

 

Geoffrey

[Robin Madge]

Push comes first by convention, ever heard of a pullmepushyou?

[Wolf Molkentin]

Push comes first by convention, ever heard of a pullmepushyou?

 

Striking evidence!

[Ken_Coles]

There seems to me to be no standard in the US, you see it one way as often as the other. Drive on the left or the right?

 

Ken

[Dowright]

Of the many Anglo tutors that I have seen (see Randall Merris's article on concertina tutors at concertina.com), the majority of the key layout diagrams show push on the top and draw on the bottom. So that is the tradition. Now to the logic of draw on the top and push on the bottom: One of the tutor authors who used the Draw/Push told me that draw was on the top, because the reeds that sounded on the draw were on the top of the reed pan, and the reeds on the push are on the underside of the reed pan, inside the bellows.

[lachenal74693]

Conventional as per Crabb, Wheatstone & Lachenal, Push - upper. Pull - lower.

 

'Nuff said! Thank you.

 

Push comes first by convention, ever heard of a pullmepushyou?

 

Thank you, nice thought! (I never saw an 'ar-ma-dill-o dil-low-ing in his ar-mour' either, though I did recently

re-read most of the Dr. Doolittle books).

 

There seems to me to be no standard in the US, you see it one way as often as the other. Drive on the left or the right?

 

Thank you. I did a bit more searching after my post - I put it roughly 55/45 - 60/40 for top=push...

 

...One of the tutor authors who used the Draw/Push told me that draw was on the top, because the reeds that sounded on

the draw were on the top of the reed pan, and the reeds on the push are on the underside of the reed pan, inside the bellows.

 

Neat idea - logical too - thank you. However, I think I am going for the top=push option as that seems

to be slightly more popular. I just hope I turn out to be 'right'. I guess it can always be changed later...

 

Thank you all folks.

 

Roger

[inventor]

I have never seen pull on the top, except on the concertina.com site. Another way that I personally like is writing the push note then / and then the pull note enclosed in brackets; because it is easy to type out and doesn't need special diagrams.

 

e.g

 

(c/ g) (g /b) (c'/d') (e'/f') (g'/a') (c"/b') (e"/d") (g"/f") (c"'/a") (e"'/b")

 

(b/d') (d'/f#') (g'/a') (b'/c") (d"/e") (g"/f#") (b"/a") (d"'/c"') (g"'/e"') (b"'/f#"')

 

Inventor.

Edited January 15, 2016 by inventor

[JimLucas]

One of the tutor authors who used the Draw/Push told me that draw was on the top, because the reeds that sounded on the draw were on the top of the reed pan, and the reeds on the push are on the underside of the reed pan, inside the bellows.

 

An interesting argument, but one with little meaning to anyone who hasn't seen the inside of a concertina. Besides, when playing, the reed sets aren't "up" and "down", but "left" and "right"... and in that respect opposite in the two hands.

 

I have never seen pull on the top, except on the concertina.com site. Another way that I personally like is writing the push note then / and then the pull note enclosed in brackets; because it is easy to type out and doesn't need special diagrams.

 

And that is, in a sense, equivalent to having the push on top, since we (Westerners) read from left to right and from top to bottom, so "push on top" and "push on the left" are two variants of "push before pull".

[JimLucas]

Push comes first by convention, ever heard of a pullmepushyou?

Is that the animal whose hide is used to make bellows?

 

There seems to me to be no standard in the US, you see it one way as often as the other.

Thank you. I did a bit more searching after my post - I put it roughly 55/45 - 60/40 for top=push...

Any data on whether that ratio has varied over time (different decades), or from country to country (e.g., England vs. Germany)?

 

As far as tutors that I've personally seen "in the flesh", by far the most have had push first (i.e., on top); no more than two the other way.

 

Which prompts me to add a further caution, though it may seem unnecessary, since you've already decided to "go with the majority": More relevant than the number of different publications should be the number of copies sold. Based on that I suspect that the statistical division isn't nearly as "even" as your search suggested.

[Lester Bailey]

In the melodeon world we use left/right push pull nomenclature

 

Example

[Doug Anderson]

Might the difference have something to do with the key the instrument is likely to be played in relative to its home keys? If most tunes in a book emphasize the push notes then showing push on top might seem more intuitive, and vice versa if the tunes tend to emphasize the pull notes. (I am assuming playing across the rows.)

Edited January 15, 2016 by Doug Anderson

[SeanD]

Diagram which accompanied my Klingenthal D/A 20-button purchased new in 1993

 

press/push on top, draw/pull on bottom

 

[lachenal74693]

Ooh goodie! More helpful, interesting and useful input. Thank you folks!

 

I should say that my 'survey' of top=push or bottom=push was strictly empirical. I know (or did know!)

far too much about statistics to claim any real validity for my 'survey'. I went with my 'gut' feeling'.

 

Thank you again.

 

OT, but well worth mentioning - I am (or have been) a member of many Internet fora (sailing, shogi,

deltiology, computing, etc.), and since joining this forum I have become convinced that it is pretty

much the most useful, helpful, constructive forum to which I 'contribute'. The same comment goes

for melodeon.net.

 

Ta!

 

Roger

Edited January 16, 2016 by lachenal74693

[Wolf Molkentin]

 

Push comes first by convention, ever heard of a pullmepushyou?

Is that the animal whose hide is used to make bellows?

 

You've outmatched me once again Jim

[Chris Ghent]

As one who has always expressed layouts in what has turned out to be a minority fashion I dimly recall the reason for for doing so was as follows; when I initially transcribed the notes from my first concertina, a very late Lachenal 30 key, I started on the right hand side, on the B/C button. It seemed natural to put the draw on top because it was the first note on the RHS. When I moved to the other side I was not tempted to do anything other than continue in that style. Had I started on the left the whole course of human history could have been different! At that time the most accessible and clear layouts on the internet were Jurgen Suttners, and as it happens they are configured the same way. Perhaps that confirmed my pattern.

 

In practice it has never been an issue for me. I have used the diagram in conversations with clients but they were all people for whom it was their first experience of a diagram. To me it feels second nature and I can't imagine doing it another way. There are a lot of things done in the opposite way in different parts of the world, ie. in some countries people think it natural for a switch to be down when it is off. Very strange..!

[chrism]

I find writing the layout into a spreadsheet works very well -- no special diagrams or software needed -- it happens I put the push on the top but I had to check a layout to confirm that.

 

Chris