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JimLucas

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    My main squeeze is the English -- in various sizes, but principally the standard treble, -- but I also play some Crane duet and anglo, and a wee bit on the MacCann duet, which I hope soon to devote more time to. I'll try my Jeffries duet and Chemnitzer once I get them into playing condition, but that may be a while.
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  1. In Wheatstone's own terminology, for the same fingering as a treble, a "baritone" sounds an octave lower, regardless of the button count. If, instead, the lower notes are positioned as a downward extension from the standard treble, essentially a further extension of the "tenor-treble" concept, Wheatstone called it a "baritone-treble", not just a "baritone". In that case, each lower note is on the opposite end of the instrument from a plain "baritone", but the treble notes are each on the same end as on a standard "treble". In my experience, the only other variant of the English system for which the term "baritone" is used is the "bass-baritone", which has standard "baritone" fingering and range, but extends downward into the bass range, just as the "tenor-treble" extends the treble downward into the "tenor" range. I.e., the "bass-baritone" is essentially an octave-lower version of the "tenor-treble", just as the standard "baritone" is an octave-lower version of the "treble".
  2. But the instrument looks like a real, small size anglo. Anybody know the maker?
  3. Patterns can be defined by multiple rules. E.g., I consider the pattern of the Wheatstone ("English") layout to be a nesting of three reflections. And in those "mirrors", I find that the important differences aren't between "right" and "left", but between "this side" and "the other side". Your "pattern" rule for accidentals of "just move one row out" is different from mine, which is based on the equal-tempered chromatic scale and says that each accidental is located adjacent to one of its two musically adjacent natural notes. Starting with the G below middle C (in the right hand), my rule holds for 39 buttons (more than 3 octaves) before breaking down, and at least for my brain, considering G# and Ab to be identical is certainly more in harmony with the rest of the Crane pattern than inserting a bisonoric button into the mix. What's more, I can extract more rules ("patterns") from the standard Crane layout, e.g.: In two different octaves, the same note is never found in the same column, and the columns of the lower and higher octaves predict each other. Also, if an accidental and its natural are on the left side of the array, then in the next higher octave, they'll both be on the right. But if they're both on the right side, then in the next higher octave, the sharp (it works out that it's only sharps before exceeding the 39-button breakdown), will be on the left, as the flat of the other musically adjacent natural note. Patterns within patterns. For you, maybe. Not necessarily for me. I suspect that we approach arrangements and maybe even tunes differently. By the way, do you limit yourself to certain keys? How about Eb? In that key, the first Eb and Ab above middle C are actually positioned as D# and G#, and for a flat 7th, Db has to be played as C#. I have no problem with that concept, but it sounds as if you do. I.e., we think differently.
  4. I feel that this discussion has diverged significantly from the subject in the title of this topic, extending from one particular detail, so I've decided to continue it in a new topic, here.
  5. I'm continuing this discussion here as a new topic, as it has diverged from the main topic where it started: Troubadour Wicky/Hayden duet under General Concertina Discussion. More, yes, but not entirely. In the left hand, my 59-button Crane has three "extra" notes (i.e., notes not found on a normal 55-button). They are Bb, A, and F below the low C, and all outside the standard 5-across rows. The F and Bb are in an "extra column" to the left of the usual 5 columns of a Crane array, and the A is a thumb button. (The fourth "extra" to make up the 59 is a low B-natural in the right hand, exactly where it belongs by extending the Crane pattern "to rule".) I can "get used to" playing these notes where they are. Heck, I could "get used to" playing a random placement of notes, which is pretty close to what one gets with various more-than-30 button anglos, where virtually no two are alike. But I would be much more comfortable with "reaching" for them if they were where they "fit the pattern", especially if I'm transposing on the fly. Patterns are patterns; exceptions are... "Gotta stop and think." And that's not just about where to find the note(s), but how to construct the fingering. Fingerings have "patterns", too. But getting back to "thumb buttons": My thumbs are neither as quick nor as flexible as my other fingers, so trying to use them in "equal" combination with the others is a hindrance to the general flow. (My "little fingers" are somewhat in between, but that's a separate issue/topic.) Using the thumb to hold down a drone note is a different matter and could even be a convenience, but that "convenience" can only be available in a very limited number of keys. The low A thumb key on my 59-button Crane can be cool if I'm playing in A or D (major or minor) but if I want to play in F and take advantage of my "extra" low F as the base of the bass, the A is not appropriate as a drone, and its position makes the low F chord awkward for my hand. I can see that particular individuals may find particular "out of pattern" notes to be handy in particular tunes or arrangements, but not in general. Evidence of this is the proliferation of attempts to design "better" general layouts. (The Wicki/Hayden is one of the few, and the most recent, that has gained wide popularity.) It's important to ask, "Better for what?" One of my criteria, which I discovered early in my playing of the English system is a pattern that can be extended unambiguously. I.e., I discovered myself without thinking reaching for notes that weren't there on my treble English, but when I got a tenor-treble, they were exactly where I had been reaching for them. I'm curious about what keyboard characteristics others find significant, both from mental (visualizing?) and physiological (finger patterns and shapes) standpoints.
  6. Hi Randy. I'd like a date estimate for Lachenal English #29079. 48-button treble, brass reeds, rosewood ends. To sell this for a friend, I'm preparing a web page with lots of photos, so for more details I'll point you to that once it's finished. Oh, yeah. Internal pencil inscription says, among other things, "1900 Leeds". Cheers.
  7. I have thumb buttons with notes both on anglos and on a Crane duet. I find it uncomfortable to use them, and not just because they're "out of pattern". Maybe it's the shape of my thumbs? It would be good to hear from others about that.
  8. The model designation in the ledger for #35174 is 18B, which the 1935 Wheatstone price list shows as a 64-key Aeola treble. The model designation in the ledger for #35173 is 41, which the 1934 Wheatstone price list shows as an 81-key Aeola duet. (Wheatstone never used the name McCann, as they claimed it was their design first. They also counted the air button in the button count on duets, but not on Englishes.)
  9. Hmm. I've never been in an "educational setting" with my concertinas, but I always view (think about) the keyboards "face on", not "from behind" (from inside the bellows?). But for those trying to interpret the keyboard from a face-on point of view, I believe you just need to flip (mirror) them: top to bottom in his diagrams (right to left in the "conventional" way of looking at them).
  10. So if you're interested in buying this instrument, why not forget eBay and negotiate with Justice via PM here? Better all round.
  11. FWIW, your link brings me to a page with a photo and an "arrow" button like YouTube uses to start a video, but clicking on the button has no effect whatsoever. Could that be because I'm not a Facebook member?
  12. I'll try to make this my last post in this Topic, therefore bound and gagged.
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