Concertinists: Are We Stuck In Ruts?

[Randy Stein]

 

 

Why are we seeing that broadening in the world of melodeons, but not among concertinists? Or is it there and I've just missed it?

I believe it is there. But the concertina innovators and explorers are fewer, almost certainly in part because there are simply fewer concertina players. Also, what they do doesn't seem to get as much attention. (I hope it's not simply because they're not as loud. )

 

Have you really missed it, or have you perhaps not fully acknowledged what you've heard? John Kirkpatrick does interesting stuff on the (anglo) concertina, not just on the melodeon. Harry Scurfield is known for -- among other things -- the British-Cajun band Bayou Gumbo and this work with the African "squashbox". Then there's the Boer tradition. Or Alan Day and French music. If you want innovative, I've heard stuff from Niall Vallely that's a far cry from Mrs. Crotty or even Noel Hill. And Kato on his 40-button Bastari, which has it's own Topic/thread.

 

Switching to the English, Simon Thoumire's playing ranges from traditional Scottish to jazz. Mike Agranoff has recorded a couple of Bach pieces, though concertina isn't his main instrument. Alistair Anderson has done a couple of baroque pieces and at least one ragtime piece, as well as a number of original pieces, including his Steel Skies suite and other compositions for chamber or orchestral ensemble. I've heard some brilliant stuff from Robert Harbron, though some of the best (in my opinion) hasn't been recorded commercially, as far as I know. And a wide variety of musical styles by Dave Townsend.

 

David Cornell did some brilliant work on the Maccann before he was tragically taken ill. What about "our own" Dirge, who recently reported joining a band doing more currently popular music? Or the late Ralph Jordan? I've also heard some brilliant non-"folk" song accompaniment on the Crane by Jamie Boorer and Charlotte Oliver.

 

The above must only scratch the surface. There are certainly others.

 

 

 

 

Well, good points. Certainly John K, among others, is an innovator on concertina. But his music hews closely to tradition in many respects. I'm thinking about the young melodeonists, mostly in Europe, who seem to be carving out new modes.

 

Other replies - good points about the relative cost of concertinas and the smaller number of players.

 

I'm not sure technological changes and new layouts are the driving force here; there seem to be plenty of young, innovative players who are making do with two-row eight-bass boxes.

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into this because I'm just not familiar with the genres from which these players spring, so I see them as pushing the boundaries. Naragonia is a case in point: are they creative musicians who are pushing the boundaries of a genre, like John K in many respects, or are they carving out something new?

 

I plead curious ignorance on this point and wait to be educated by those who are better informed.

 

Jim Besser is too modest. As an anglo player he plays in more styles and has a repertoire that never tires. You should hear his band Frog Hammer if you want to know what innovation in traditional playing is like.

just saying...

rss

Edited February 25, 2014 by Randy Stein

[hjcjones]

I think there may be a 'weight of numbers' element to this. In some European musical traditions the diatonic accordion has a strong place and is widely played, and just as importantly it is taken seriously - it is widely taught, and studied as a 'proper instrument' right up to professional standards, and not just thought of as simply a folk instrument. This means there is a very wide base of extremely competent and trained players, and it is unsurprising that this supports a greater number who are innovating.

 

The concertina world is much smaller, and players are more isolated. Most players are self-taught, at least to an extent, and there can be relatively few who have the same opportunity to properly study the instrument on a serious and regular basis to a high standard. There is only a handful of players who can be considered to be inspirational and truly innovative, but we are drawing on a much smaller base. I wonder whether the proportion of innovators to the general base of players is actually any smaller.

[JimLucas]

i don't think three-row diatonics are really "new." perhaps the use of them in french folk music is a new thing, don't know about that, but three-row diatos have been around a long time.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. Like the bouzouki in Irish music, they may be "new" in some genre at some particular time, but adopted from some other musical genres where they're common, as the bouzouki was and is in Greece.

 

I remember Philippe Bruneau playing his native French Canadian music on the 3-row (also the 1-row) in the early '70s, something the linked obituary/biography indicates he had been doing since 1949. (In 1991 he emigrated to France. Hmm. )

[JimLucas]

In some European musical traditions the diatonic accordion has a strong place and is widely played, and just as importantly it is taken seriously - it is widely taught, and studied as a 'proper instrument' right up to professional standards, and not just thought of as simply a folk instrument.

In some countries -- I believe Sweden, Norway, and Finland are among them, -- traditional/folk music is as highly respected as "classical" music. Though both are taught at elite schools, untutored competence in folk music is both recognized and honored. Fiddle and various accordions are taken seriously, but so are many "obscure" folk instruments, such as nyckelharpa and Härjedalspipa (a flute from the Härjedal region, which has a peculiar scale that I hope to say more about in another Topic). Concertina doesn't ("yet", I keep saying) happen to be a noticeable part of tradition in these countries. The idea that's all too common (though thankfully not universal) in the US and Britain that "folk" is not "proper", and often combined with the words "simply" or "merely", is much less common in these countries.

 

This means there is a very wide base of extremely competent and trained players, and it is unsurprising that this supports a greater number who are innovating.

More "trained" players, and perhaps also more "competent" players, but the two should not be equated, though there are some who are both.

 

The concertina world is much smaller, and players are more isolated. Most players are self-taught, at least to an extent, and there can be relatively few who have the same opportunity to properly study the instrument on a serious and regular basis to a high standard.

I would think this would result in a greater proportion of innovation, since they wouldn't be adhering to someone else's "high standard", if only because they wouldn't be aware of it.

 

There is only a handful of players who can be considered to be inspirational and truly innovative, but we are drawing on a much smaller base. I wonder whether the proportion of innovators to the general base of players is actually any smaller.

As noted above, I suspect the opposite, though the exposure of these innovators to a wider audience may well be less.

 

One more point, though, about the proportion of innovation: Of those perceived to be "innovative", how many are independently so? One "new" style shared by twenty individuals is not the same as twenty independent "new" styles. Never mind the old debate over quantity versus quality; there are also different ways of measuring "quantity".

 

I suspect our own contributions to Tune of the Month have shown more variety in innovation than the examples which prompted Jim B. to start this thread, albeit "the greater public's" awareness of this variety is probably much less.

[JimLucas]

Jim Besser is too modest. As an anglo player he plays in more styles and has a repertoire that never tires. You should hear his band Frog Hammer if you want to know what innovation in traditional playing is like.

Some (Jim B.?) may feel that they're "in a rut", while others disagree with them. This could well be because each is more familiar with what they themselves are doing than with something "different" that they've recently encountered.

 

Meanwhile, what some folks consider being "in a rut", others may consider being "in the zone".

[bill_mchale]

My general thoughts on this follow closely to what some of the others have expressed. But I don't think it is only a matter that there are far fewer concertina players than accordion players (of virtually any stripe, except perhaps the 1 row box). I think it is also a matter that our instrument almost died out in the post war years. Even in areas like Ireland where there was a strong tradition of concertina in the music, it definitely appeared to see a dip in popularity (perhaps because they became more rare or perhaps because of the rise of the B/C accordion, I don't know). In any case, now concertina players are in some sense still reestablishing themselves in the wider traditions. As a result, might they also be experimenting inside the bounds of their particular tradition seeing how they best fit into it?

 

Just a thought.

 

--

Bill

Edited February 25, 2014 by bill_mchale

[felix castro]

i don't think three-row diatonics are really "new." perhaps the use of them in french folk music is a new thing, don't know about that, but three-row diatos have been around a long time. there are perhaps new customized fillips dreamed up and ordered by the musicians, such as some extra basses, or putting a few unisonoric buttons on the box, or whatever, but...

 

the 18-bass Castignari Handry, of which there are several models, seems to be the basic core of the boxes played by both pascale rubens and sophie cavez. don't know what tunings are on the particular boxes used by these musicians, but most Handrys are A/D/G. there is the "club system" three-row diato used for ages in parts of europe and the u.s. here in the western US where i'm based, the mexican folk musicians use three-row diatos in different tunings (albeit with fewer basses), and the scots and irish have the b/c/c#, which has PA stradella basses and has just never been a real rival to the 2-rows, perhaps because the PA bass systems make them magilla gorillas to lug around. there are lots of fun and informative discussion threads about three-row diatos on melodeon.net.

 

About the three rows melodeons that I know, usually the old ones were G/C/F or F/Bb/Eb, i. e. in portuguese traditional music and the three row diatonic accordions found in Spain, etc. and the musicians played a lot in the major scales, G, C, F, they played them more as two accordions at the same time, a G/C and a C/F. The innovation was mainly the third row with accidentals and that people began to play that accordions with that layout in a lot of different keys and then added more basses as the 18 bass accordion for accompaniment.

[sqzbxr]

I can only speak for myself, but I came to the concertina (and melodeon) through English folk and dance music. Prior to this I played clarinet, saxophone, flute (simple and modern), tin whistle, guitar, and bass. I have played a broad variety of music, including classical, jazz, rock, ska, reggae, Irish trad, etc. I have never had an interest in playing these instruments outside of their traditional roles (clarinet for trad, etc.) and I'm no different with the concertina. Some may say that this makes me a stick in the mud, others would call me a traditionalist.

 

I'm guessing that the majority of people that take up the concertina also do so within its traditional context and have little interest in taking it outside of that realm.

[Jim Besser]

Interesting comments.

 

Maybe the bottom line is that concertinas have been used in fewer musical genres than melodeons, and there are probably fewer of us. The innovation that has interested me springs from diverse traditions; there's just a bigger universe of melodeon players.

[sqzbxr]

Do you have - or have you seen a copy of "Diatonic Liaisons/Liaisons Diatoniques" by Alexandra Browne? It was recently reissued and made available on MelNet. As I recall, the English tunes are written for the D/G, the French predominately for the G/C with a few for the C/F. The book is a great resource for exploring how "the other half lives." You are welcome to have my copy, I'll bring it next time I'm in the DC area.

[Jim Besser]

Do you have - or have you seen a copy of "Diatonic Liaisons/Liaisons Diatoniques" by Alexandra Browne? It was recently reissued and made available on MelNet. As I recall, the English tunes are written for the D/G, the French predominately for the G/C with a few for the C/F. The book is a great resource for exploring how "the other half lives." You are welcome to have my copy, I'll bring it next time I'm in the DC area.

 

I'd love to see it. Thanks.

 

Like you, my major focus is English tunes - for Morris and ceilidh. But the other stuff intrigues me and it's great fun to play.

[Steve Mansfield]

Proof, if proof were needed, that Simon Thoumire for one is way out of any concertina rut!

 

I've linked to his blog post rather than straight to the Soundcloud file as the context is (IMHO) interesting.

 

http://simonthoumire.com/legs-eleven/

[Steve Wilson]

Proof, if proof were needed, that Simon Thoumire for one is way out of any concertina rut!

 

I've linked to his blog post rather than straight to the Soundcloud file as the context is (IMHO) interesting.

 

http://simonthoumire.com/legs-eleven/

 

Wow! Love it. This bloke's a freak. A leader and inovator in the concertina world.

 

Simon Thoumire for one is way out of any concertina rut!

 

 

 

 

 

Way out, he's flying!

[Anglo-Irishman]

Perhaps most concertina players play the concertina because they like concertina music.

 

Music changes over the years, decades and centuries, and the instruments that are part of it change with it. New music calls for new or "improved" instruments, and the new capabilities of these instruments influence the development of new music. Just compare the "Three Bs" in classical music: Bach, Beethoven and Brahms. Bach's harpsichord would not have been up to playing Beethoven's keyboard works, and Beethoven's Hammerklavier would not have sounded that great playing Brahms. Both Bach's and Beethoven's woodwind sections would have had a struggle with Bahms' orchestral stuff.

For a long time, Bach and Beethoven were played on modern instruments, but in the last 50 years or so we have grown accustomed to hearing Bach on the harpsichord and Beethoven on keyless flutes and oboes - Historically Informed Performance.

 

So whoever learns the harpsichord or the keyless wooden flute these days is going to be heavily into Bach and his contemporaries. Because their music was tailored to these instruments, and it's the music the instruments were built for.

 

The heyday of the concertina was the heyday of light classical music in the bourgeois drawing-room, virtuoso solo work on the music-hall stage, hearty singing in the street and in pubs by the Salvation Army and simple peer entertainment by the working classes by land and sea. Whether deliberately or not, you are opening a door to this muscal era when you buy an EC, a Maccann, a Crane/Triumph or an Anglo.

 

Modern, American-influenced pop music is very much guitar music. Jazz is very much a derivate of wind-band music. Classical music is piano and/or orchestra. The concertina's province is elsewhere.

 

Having said that, I do enjoy playing music inspired by genres other than Victorian ballads, Gospel songs and forebitters. But I must accept that not all pop songs work on the concertina, and not all classical pieces can be arranged for it to the standard of the original (or if they are, I can't play them!). And I do write new songs with a concertina accompaniment in mind. But broadly speaking, I play late 19th/early 20th century music on my concertinas, as the harpsichordist plays 17th and early 18th century music on his instrument.

 

That's my take on the topic!

 

Cheers,

John

[Wolf Molkentin]

Way out, he's flying!

Oh yes, indeed. Have attended a workshop of his last year. He even doesn't seem to know that much about Jazz or other theoretical stuff, he's just taking his aeola and squeezes the hell out of it. His motto (which I'm trying to follow to a rather modest degree) is: "You must feel totally at home on your instrument". A great musician and as well teacher (and a very likable and witty personality, too) with whom I luckily had the chance to meet...

[Jody Kruskal]

I find the discussion on this topic quite interesting, but the wingeing topic itself, rather depressing. Personally, I'm not stuck in any rut but rather enjoying pushing the envelope of making my Anglo concertina sound right with all the styles and musics I'm working on: Old-time southern fiddle tunes, blues songs, college fraternity and sorority songs from the '50's, tin pan alley and American song book standards, Irish and English session tunes, humorous novelty songs from way back, early country classics from Jimmie Rogers and the Delmore Brothers etc., Playford dance tunes from the 16-18 hundreds, New England contra dance tunes, Scottish pipe tunes, Northumbrian pipe tunes, Quebecois, Shetland, Breton, Basque, Oz, Morris and Sword tunes, Beatles, Dylan and Neil Young... blah, blah, blah, on and on. It's all grist for the mill.

 

Sure, the concertina in all it's permutations is a rare thing these days but isn't that what attracted you to it in the first place? Sure, concertinas have more limitations than most other band-in-a-box instruments like the piano for instance, but out of those limitations comes the possibility of artistry and a very direct connection to the players body, especially in the area where the concertina excels, dynamic expressiveness. In addition to that, concertinas have a great capacity for harmonic simplicity. It's not a PA or melodeon and has a distinct sound all it's own because there are no chord buttons. You have to make your own harmony... and if you don't play with harmony, come take lessons with me on your Anglo... you are missing out on more than half the fun. Really.

 

So let's get on with it and play. Play better than you did before and explore and practice and listen and get together with other musicians to make great music right now. Do it today!

 

There now. I feel better already. Rant over.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Jody Kruskal

[Wolf Molkentin]

That's pretty innovative, isn't it?

[derekc]

a very Interesting debate - conversely, there is a current thread on the melodeon.net concerning overdoing the accompaniment and getting back to basics.

 

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,14224.0.html

 

can traditional english folk tunes/melodies sing out for themselves?