C#/g# Tuning....why Do Players Like That Tuning For Irish Music?

[richard]

Hi

 

 

I Know many Irish players use C# G# tuning. I am wondering why players choose this tuning?

 

Does it go well with standard fiddle tuning?

 

It would go well with C#/G# accordion.

 

I imagine the reeds might play a bit faster than with C/G tuning?

 

Any notions?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

Edited April 11, 2013 by richard

[Peter Laban]

It's a different and brighter tone.

[Sean M]

 

 

Does it go well with standard fiddle tuning?

 

 

Typically when someone is playing with a C#/G# the fiddle player (and other instruments) will tune up half a step as well. Most do it as said above for the brighter tone I believe.

[Lawrence Reeves]

I remember a tendency to play up a half in the early 1980s. Some recordings were done that way, and were amazing regardless which tuning was chosen. I remember Matt Molloy recordings being especially mesmerizing in Eb. At some of the fleadhs we would tune up ( in my case use an Eb flute) to keep a room full of box players from joining in. I think the flute in Eb was almost a catalyst for the occasion. So many old flutes were sharp of A440 that by pushing in the tuning slide all the way and blowing with greater pressure we could go to a true Eb. I would not think the C# /G# tuning a standard key from old concertina makers, but after looking at how easy it was to push a flute up, I suppose tuning an already sharp pitched concertina up to it was easy. I considered pulling my old Shakespeare up to Eb, but decided not to after all. I do find an alternate key for a concertina lovely to have, but think Bb / F a more practical choice for a second box. At least it is used with pipes in C, and has a sweet sound. For a third box I would be torn between Ab / Eb or C# / G#.

[gcoover]

De Dannan played in D#, claiming it made the tunes brighter, but I suspect it was also to keep others from learning or playing along! Ah, the days before The Amazing Slow-Downer program. I would guess the C#/G# boxes were made or retuned to that new and "higher" standard.

 

Gary

[cboody]

I think tuning up to Eb is done for the two reasons mentioned: Affection for the "brighter sound" and a way to keep some folks who, for one reason or another are not wanted, out of the playing group. I've seen bluegrassers tune up a half step to get rid of autoharp players. I've been in sessions where they tried to drive away hammered dulcimer players by playing in C (which BTW only gets rid of the really weak players).

 

As to box players I remember a story told about Billy McComisky the great B/C box player. Supposedly someone asked him what he did when groups played up the half step. Reportedly Billy just looked a bit confused and said, "Well, I play the tunes that way then."

[ceemonster]

[Reportedly Billy just looked a bit confused and said, "Well, I play the tunes that way then."]

 

Ha---the version I heard was that he replied to a whine from some journeyman-level student as to the unfairness of flat-key seshes, with something to the effect of, "suck it up and learn" how to play your b/c box in those keys. which certainly can be done, but few do. i'd rather do that on CBA.

[gcoover]

Or you can do what happened once in a really fun session in Shropshire a few years ago with John Kirkpatrick and some of the Bedlams. Most were playing G/D melodeons, but John was playing his B/C/C# accordion when he suddenly and deliberately changed to a key that they didn't have. Well, that didn't stop anyone - they all ploughed on in a fourth or a second or some gawdawful interval, laughing hysterically the entire time!!! I daresay, you'd be banned for life if you even thought of doing this at any desperately serious ITM session!

 

Gary

[felix castro]

The C#/G# was my first anglo concertina. It is a nice instrument for playing in Eb, G#, and Bb, that are the most common keys for playing in the Eb flute, that plays my brother.

I was considering then (the 1997s) about buying a Bb/F instrument, but the C#/G# was the right instrument that played in the most keys that the Eb flute plays, also it has the same concept than the fiddle about putting it a semitone higher for playing in Bb, etc. in a fiddle G#/D#/Bb/F

 

I bought this kind of concertina for playing mainly with Bb bagpipes and my brother's flute in Eb, using then the same positions than the A played in a C/G instrument for playing in Bb.

You can hear some tracks in another thread with me playing pipes and concertina in Bb that began Jody Kruskal about scottish small pipes and concertinas playing in A, in my case played in Bb but with the same positions than the A in a C/G instrument.

The scottish fiddlers I think that they do it for playing with Bb bagpipes. In Asturias and Galicia then fiddlers, fluters, etc. play also with instruments pitched in Eb for playing along with the Bb bagpipes. Playing with the Eb flute, the flute plays Bb in the same octave than the Bb bagpipe, and they mix very well.

Galician Bb pipes, as the scottish do, play one octave higher than the uilleann pipes in Bb.

My brother has also a low flute in Bb for playing in low Bb.

 

Finally this year I bought a Bb/F concertina, because I like a lot the flat keys too, and the F key sounds nice in the bouzouki, better than the G. The concertina in Bb/F sounds nice with the C flute, that plays nicely in C, F and G, and with the flat uilleann pipes in C.

For playing in C along the galician pipes in C I used to play along the row with the concertina in C/G

[Frank Edgley]

Re: the reason i.e.to keep unwanted players from joining in.....Loretto Reid, from Sligo, originally, now in Toronto said that was the key that "lifts and separates." Whatever she meant by that I'm not sure.....

[david_boveri]

although it's partially true that playing in Eb on a C#/G# does keep the "uninitiated" from joining in, there is something nice about playing in Eb. for some reason, i can't shake how much better i like playing in Eb than in D on the whistle, and a flute in Eb or F feels like a sports car in comparison to a standard flute. there's a reason that professionals tend to have instruments in different keys... they each bring something different to the music.

[felix castro]

As I don't know the reasons that why in ireland people began playing in Eb. It is true as David Boveri says that the Eb flute is more like a sports car than the D flute, more easy for filling and with less space between fingers, it is more comfortable and faster for playing (of course it is also a sensation as when one gets acostumed to an instrument things are easier). The Eb has a brighter tone, and as the F flute they are flutes with a very nice rounded sound, and balanced, not very low and not very high as high whistles in C, D, etc. And it is true that each key has different flavour to the music.

As I told i.e. the bouzouki and other string instruments sound very nice playing in F.

[ceemonster]

sometimes i like the e-flat and a-flat thing, sometimes i find it really annoying. but i just about always like the "C" and "f" thing. and the "b" and "e" thing.

[michael sam wild]

Scott Skinner maintained that Eb was a superior key for fiddle. In the 80s I thought De Danaan etc had speeded the recordings up so I got an Eb whistle to play along and learn D tunes. It pushed me along a bit !

Edited April 29, 2013 by michael sam wild