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A Modest Proposal - Concertina Fund


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I recall reading a recent, rather "spirited", topic in this forum in which a member bemoaned the lack of availability of quality instruments for musicians due to overconsumption by hobbyists. I can't seem to find the thread - perhaps it was taken down because of its inflammatory nature. I'm not taking a position on the original poster's assertion, merely using it as a jumping-off point for an idea.

 

What if...

 

The major concertina craftsmen and resellers were to get together and start a fund for young concertina musicians, funded entirely by voluntary donations by their customers. Let's say I buy a $2000 instrument from Mr. Gepetto, the noted concertina maker. I would be asked if I wanted to make a voluntary donation of, say, 5% of the purchase price to go to this fund.

 

Then once a year, or when the fund had enough cash, a recipient would be chosen based on talent and financial need, and he or she would receive a quality instrument purchased by the fund.

 

I'm quite new to this community and perhaps this idea is impractical (or even redundant). But I thought I would throw it out there for comment.

 

-Jim

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I recall reading a recent, rather "spirited", topic in this forum in which a member bemoaned the lack of availability of quality instruments for musicians due to overconsumption by hobbyists. I can't seem to find the thread - perhaps it was taken down because of its inflammatory nature. I'm not taking a position on the original poster's assertion, merely using it as a jumping-off point for an idea.

 

What if...

 

The major concertina craftsmen and resellers were to get together and start a fund for young concertina musicians, funded entirely by voluntary donations by their customers. Let's say I buy a $2000 instrument from Mr. Gepetto, the noted concertina maker. I would be asked if I wanted to make a voluntary donation of, say, 5% of the purchase price to go to this fund.

 

Then once a year, or when the fund had enough cash, a recipient would be chosen based on talent and financial need, and he or she would receive a quality instrument purchased by the fund.

 

I'm quite new to this community and perhaps this idea is impractical (or even redundant). But I thought I would throw it out there for comment.

 

-Jim

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I recall reading a recent, rather "spirited", topic in this forum in which a member bemoaned the lack of availability of quality instruments for musicians due to overconsumption by hobbyists. I can't seem to find the thread - perhaps it was taken down because of its inflammatory nature. I'm not taking a position on the original poster's assertion, merely using it as a jumping-off point for an idea.

 

What if...

 

The major concertina craftsmen and resellers were to get together and start a fund for young concertina musicians, funded entirely by voluntary donations by their customers. Let's say I buy a $2000 instrument from Mr. Gepetto, the noted concertina maker. I would be asked if I wanted to make a voluntary donation of, say, 5% of the purchase price to go to this fund.

 

Then once a year, or when the fund had enough cash, a recipient would be chosen based on talent and financial need, and he or she would receive a quality instrument purchased by the fund.

 

I'm quite new to this community and perhaps this idea is impractical (or even redundant). But I thought I would throw it out there for comment.

 

-Jim

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WHAT IF:

all accordion-reeded "hybrid" concertinas priced at $2000 and over, had superbly fast, super-responsive button, bellows, and reed action, so that the difference between a $2000-and-plus "hybrid," versus a so-called "authentic" make, was only accordion-versus-concertina reeds. now that the price of hybrids is this high, and i have no quibble with it being that high, i feel strongly that these instruments need to be as fast, responsive, and rich-toned (most do have rich voices, actually) as so-called "authentic" makes. once that bar is decidedly crossed, i believe plenty of players would not even bother with the "authentic" makes. and i believe that at two-grand-and-up, that bar needs to be decidedly crossed. as things stand now, we have, this one that has great reeds but slower button action, versus that one that has great button action but more resistive reeds, versus......at two grand and up, we are now well out of the range of "starter" prices. we are now in the range of, major investment. i believe that many people getting on lists for "authentic" concertinas are really after optimal action, responsiveness & speed. many of them would be happy to have the same action/speed with accordion reeds, at 2000/2500, and here is hoping we get there.

 

on the idea of buying concertinas for younger players----this is what stagis and rochelles and jackies are for. the thread the original poster seems to be remembering was not a plaintive wail that someone expected or wanted a concertina purchased for them. the wail expressed in that thread was, gosh, why should a virtuoso like MEEEEEEEEE, have to get on a long waiting list for one when i am a fabulous "professional," unlike all those dunderheads now clogging up the wait lists and delaying MEEEEEEEEEEEE, who are lame-os and can't play the concertina. that was the gist of it, anyhow. get it?

Edited by ceemonster
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WHAT IF:

all accordion-reeded "hybrid" concertinas priced at $2000 and over, had superbly fast, super-responsive button, bellows, and reed action, so that the difference between a $2000-and-plus "hybrid," versus a so-called "authentic" make, was only accordion-versus-concertina reeds. now that the price of hybrids is this high, and i have no quibble with it being that high, i feel strongly that these instruments need to be as fast, responsive, and rich-toned (most do have rich voices, actually) as so-called "authentic" makes. once that bar is decidedly crossed, i believe plenty of players would not even bother with the "authentic" makes. and i believe that at two-grand-and-up, that bar needs to be decidedly crossed. as things stand now, we have, this one that has great reeds but slower button action, versus that one that has great button action but more resistive reeds, versus......at two grand and up, we are now well out of the range of "starter" prices. we are now in the range of, major investment. i believe that many people getting on lists for "authentic" concertinas are really after optimal action, responsiveness & speed. many of them would be happy to have the same action/speed with accordion reeds, at 2000/2500, and here is hoping we get there.

 

on the idea of buying concertinas for younger players----this is what stagis and rochelles and jackies are for. the thread the original poster seems to be remembering was not a plaintive wail that someone expected or wanted a concertina purchased for them. the wail expressed in that thread was, gosh, why should a virtuoso like MEEEEEEEEE, have to get on a long waiting list for one when i am a fabulous "professional," unlike all those dunderheads now clogging up the wait lists and delaying MEEEEEEEEEEEE, who are lame-os and can't play the concertina. that was the gist of it, anyhow. get it?

 

I remember this posting well and I agree with you as regards the tone of it.

If however a genuine case came along I am certain that I for one would try and help out and I would not be surprised if some of you joined me.

I remember Jim Lucas saying that he has lent his concertinas to players /friends to get them started.You cannot get any more generous than that,unless you give them away.Other members of this site have also lent concertinas to help out.It is already going on behind the scenes,it is just not shouted from the rooftops.

Good on you.

Al

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I too remember that thread -- and not very fondly either. This idea sounds good but then many of the Socialists' ideas sounded good but never worked -- or failed miserably. We tried a similar thing in having a scholarship fund that would be used to support "deserving" students help attend Noel Hill's school. To my knowledge we only did it a limited number of times and IMHO it didn't really work out as well as intended -- and consequently died.

 

As far as this proposed fund is concerned, who is going to decide who gets the money/instrument? At best we will have one hopefully happy person but many more disgruntled people who were not chosen -- and their parents/relatives. There are many instances where people with means or extra concertinas will make a grand gesture and loan an instrument to someone they consider deserving. This is probably the best way to go with such a decision based on a one-to-one personal relationship.

 

If you follow classic music at all, there are a number of instances where virtuosos have lost very valuable instruments that are on loan to them. One has to ask if they would have lost that same instrument if they had had to come up with the money for it? Or put another way, you will never have as much appreciation for something that is given to you as something you have worked to EARN. I will admit there are undoubtedly exceptions to this statement, but the underlying truth remains.

 

I suggest that each person truly interested in the concertina will find a way to get one that suits his/her needs, talents, and/or means. If individuals want to help individuals, go for it. But don't try to institutionalize something like this; it will create more anger and harm than good. And the recipient will come to feel "entitled" which is just what many of us felt was so outrageous about the ideas set forth in the former thread.

 

Ross Schlabach

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Isn't the main problem the difference in cost of a top-of-the-range vintage English concertina versus a top-of-the-range vintage C/G Anglo, which bears little relation to the amount of work gone into making them?

 

Does a talented player really need a vintage top-spec concertina rather than a brand new or overhauled mid-range box?

 

How have these "talented" young players got so talented, if they haven't got a decent box to play on?

 

I still consider myself a "hobbyist" player, even though I play it on paid gigs, as concertina is one of my less played instruments from a professional point of view.

 

Rather than hobbyists, aren't collectors the problem? - you know who you are, you people who don't stand in the "Five Instrument Or Fewer" queue, and bring TWO double concertina cases to sessions.

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I recall reading a recent, rather "spirited", topic in this forum in which a member bemoaned the lack of availability of quality instruments for musicians due to overconsumption by hobbyists. I can't seem to find the thread - perhaps it was taken down because of its inflammatory nature. I'm not taking a position on the original poster's assertion, merely using it as a jumping-off point for an idea.

 

What if...

 

The major concertina craftsmen and resellers were to get together and start a fund for young concertina musicians, funded entirely by voluntary donations by their customers. Let's say I buy a $2000 instrument from Mr. Gepetto, the noted concertina maker. I would be asked if I wanted to make a voluntary donation of, say, 5% of the purchase price to go to this fund.

 

Then once a year, or when the fund had enough cash, a recipient would be chosen based on talent and financial need, and he or she would receive a quality instrument purchased by the fund.

 

I'm quite new to this community and perhaps this idea is impractical (or even redundant). But I thought I would throw it out there for comment.

 

-Jim

 

Excuse me but,

 

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

HAHAHAHAHA!!

 

HAHAHAHA!

 

HAH!

 

hum...

 

well, that was a good laugh. Oh wait,

 

HAHAHAHha!

HAHAHAHAHA!

 

HAhaha!

 

HAHAH!

 

Cough

 

HAHAHaH!

 

 

ok, ok, that was a good one.

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I recall reading a recent, rather "spirited", topic in this forum in which a member bemoaned the lack of availability of quality instruments for musicians due to overconsumption by hobbyists. I can't seem to find the thread - perhaps it was taken down because of its inflammatory nature. I'm not taking a position on the original poster's assertion, merely using it as a jumping-off point for an idea.

 

What if...

 

The major concertina craftsmen and resellers were to get together and start a fund for young concertina musicians, funded entirely by voluntary donations by their customers. Let's say I buy a $2000 instrument from Mr. Gepetto, the noted concertina maker. I would be asked if I wanted to make a voluntary donation of, say, 5% of the purchase price to go to this fund.

 

Then once a year, or when the fund had enough cash, a recipient would be chosen based on talent and financial need, and he or she would receive a quality instrument purchased by the fund.

 

I'm quite new to this community and perhaps this idea is impractical (or even redundant). But I thought I would throw it out there for comment.

 

-Jim

 

I'll put my name on the list for a frebe any time.

 

Chas

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I remember a Father with a blind child asking for my assistance in helping his son play Anglo .This would be the type of person if he could not afford a concertina

for his boy that would make me donate.

Al

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I remember this posting well and I agree with you as regards the tone of it.

If however a genuine case came along I am certain that I for one would try and help out and I would not be surprised if some of you joined me.

I remember Jim Lucas saying that he has lent his concertinas to players /friends to get them started.You cannot get any more generous than that,unless you give them away.Other members of this site have also lent concertinas to help out.It is already going on behind the scenes,it is just not shouted from the rooftops.

Good on you.

Al

I would try to help out too. I have loaned out instruments myself, but I think pretty hard before doing that. On the other hand, I make donations to charity without hesitation. From my point of view, it would be easier to make a donation (maybe $50/year) to a fund like this than it is to fret over the risk of getting a loaned concertina back in good shape and the logistics of getting it to the player and back to me.

 

I would think that a hybrid (e.g. a Morse) might be the right level of instrument for this, if someone is interested in taking the time to organize it and there are more than two of us who would contribute. And even a Rochelle/Jackie (perhaps as a long-term loan, to be donated back if the player eventually moved up to a higher-level concertina) could be helpful for those in very tight straits.

 

And I regret the tone of some of the comments on this thread. My kids are both in bands at their schools. We are fortunate to have had the means to buy them their instruments, but the schools also have loaner instruments for the families who cannot do so. Does that practice warrant a "Socialism!" or a "HA HA HA" too?

 

 

Daniel

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Hello

 

How about an on going fund to pay for a rental from the Button Box to send an instrument to someone who has trouble affording a decent instrument. How about for a 6 months window.

 

Folks who wanted to could donate just a few bucks, which would go a long way for a rental. Between the almost 7000 members here it wouldn't take much effort or to collect enough for the rental fees.

 

Perhaps an English and Anglo go out for each 6 month slot.

 

Who would decide who gets it each time?

 

This would be good for the person wanting to experience a good instrument, and take a good "dip" in the water with it, and it would be good for the Button Box, and no one would have to donate so much, or risk a damaged concertina.

 

Richard

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I think there is no need for any of this. The Rochelles and Jackies are good value, regarded as thoroughly playable and in the same sort of price bracket as lots of other budget instruments, and they seem to be turning up fairly steadily in good second hand condition too. (Ie a bit cheaper than new)

 

Making the sacrifice and saving to buy your own instrument is an important part of learning to play; having made the investment you take it seriously and have a proper go at using it; (you should see how shelling out for a duet on spec sharpens your enthusiasm. No Rochelles there.) You also look after your investment. People lent an instrument on a personal basis will hopefully look after their friend's valuable instrument and, presumably, wouldn't have been lent it if they weren't thought keen.

 

Some people might be interested in getting the free loan of one to have a go. Is that who you want to help? Folk who 'might be interested'? Who aren't committed? What state do you expect the 'box to be returned in? How seriously are they going to try? Half an hour on the first day then move it into the kid's bedroom until asked for it back, I suggest.

 

It's about priorities. If the concertina is well down their list, why waste time on them?

 

I'd be more interested in a bursary to help a confirmed enthusiast upgrade. Find the most promising player held back by his instrument. We have a couple of members here I know of doing really impressive things on cheap 'boxes because that is all they can justify. What about investing in quality?

 

(Of course we then have another argument; I feel very strongly that the concertina is ill-served by its 'folk-instrument' label and would want to promote its use in a wider field; this no doubt has a large proportion of you screwing up your faces in dismay at the very thought. But I see no value in encouraging more trad musicians, regardless of flavour; that's looking after itself already; the concertina is already holding its own there.)

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I remember hearing an interview with one of the pre-war Irish ceili band players, he was saying that the local priest bought a 20 key anglo for the parish - essentially for the parish dances, but interestingly, the parish box was shared by 3 or 4 people, having a night each to practise on it.

Beginners sharing a concertina - another possible idea?

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How about an on going fund to pay for a rental from the Button Box to send an instrument to someone who has trouble affording a decent instrument. How about for a 6 months window.

Great idea!

But let's first overthrow a government, nationalize Button Box, put it on State budget and then create some sort of comitee (sp?), let's call it...mm... Oh, here's a good one, Let's call it "Politburo".

Politburo will consider who will get an instrument, based on his status, list of achievements and usefulness to the State Cause.

The Button Box will have to supply an instrument for such person, and the State will pay for it. Same can be done with automobiles, dress, food. I propose to make Button Box sole distributor of such items, and the list can include machinery, electricity, railroads and medical services. The name sure fits.

All we have to do is to use our Constitutional Right to form armed Militia and overthrow the government, that obstructs such will of the masses.

On serious mood though, if a "beginner" enjoys a pack of beer a month - he surely can afford rental from the Button Box, esp. that it may go towards the payment for the instrument or any trade-in and upgrade.

And if such "beginner", poor and heartbroken, can't resist a temptation, does he qualify for such cumbersome help?

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The local pipers club has loner instruments for beginners. It's a pity that there aren't concertina clubs that could function in the same way. As for the high price of quality concertinas -- it's supply and demand unfortunately. There are enough people interested to create a market for high-quality hand-made instruments, but not enough for anyone to start an operation that could produce and sell concertinas at a rate that would bring down the price to what it might have been relative to the value of currency back in the 20s and 30s when a lot of concertinas were produced.

 

I'm curious if anyone has done a comparison of relative values comparing that period to today?

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The local pipers club has loner instruments for beginners. It's a pity that there aren't concertina clubs that could function in the same way. As for the high price of quality concertinas -- it's supply and demand unfortunately. There are enough people interested to create a market for high-quality hand-made instruments, but not enough for anyone to start an operation that could produce and sell concertinas at a rate that would bring down the price to what it might have been relative to the value of currency back in the 20s and 30s when a lot of concertinas were produced.

 

I'm curious if anyone has done a comparison of relative values comparing that period to today?

 

i believe randy merris did and found that they are about the same price now as they were when the wheatstones and jeffries were being made. to sum up all the math, randy told me that the price of concertinas today is the same as their heyday: several months salary. i would assume this meant lower income workers (such as myself), as it really is several months salary for me! working at $9 (usd) an hour, it would take 4 months, working at 40 hours a week for me to afford a carroll, meaning i didnt spend my money on anything else. a suttner would cost me 3.5 months of work.

 

of course, the vintage concertinas can go for a lot more than new concertinas.

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The local pipers club has loner instruments for beginners.

'Tis a solitary occupation! ;)

 

As for the high price of quality concertinas -- it's supply and demand unfortunately. There are enough people interested to create a market for high-quality hand-made instruments, but not enough for anyone to start an operation that could produce and sell concertinas at a rate that would bring down the price to what it might have been relative to the value of currency back in the 20s and 30s when a lot of concertinas were produced.

 

I'm curious if anyone has done a comparison of relative values comparing that period to today?

Randy Merris and Bob Gaskins have a price calculator on the Concertina.com website: http://www.concertina.com/calculator/#examples which reveals that many of todays prices are in line with those in years gone by, in fact some secondhand instruments may be relatively much cheaper today...

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