New and Improved Stagi?

[Ubizmo]

12 hours ago, alex_holden said:

You don't really need the mesh behind the fretwork; most high-end concertinas don't have one. An alternative is 'speaker grille cloth', which is available pretty cheaply in a variety of colours.

"Fretwork" is the word I was looking for.

I think some kind of cover would at least keep flies or moths from venturing in there. As I look at the foil or whatever it is that's in there, I imagine that replacing it with something like fabric or screen mesh would reduce air resistance. That could be a good thing. I imagine it would change the timbre a bit as well, though I can't predict what effect it would have. 

[seanc]

I’d really be interested to hear any feedback about a new model Hayden.

 

had one a few years ago. And it was just ok.. large, heavy, slow. Kind of mushy sound. And then it had rivets all over that would mark up any wood surface you put it on.

 

a good quality Hayden at the price point of the stagi with a reasonable button count would be something I would be really interested in.

 

[Ubizmo]

I went back to Liberty Bellows today, to ask them to made an adjustment to the middle B reed, which was a bit laggy. They did so, and it made such a difference! But while the technician was working, I sat in the "concertina corner" of the shop (pictured) and played a few of the concertinas. I was struck by the different "fit" of the various instruments. I mentioned how the Concertine Italia (Stagi) W-15 LN that I bought has quite a distance from the rail to the inner row of keys, which is a good fit for my hands. I picked up another CI 30- button and found quite the opposite. The buttons were so close to the rail that I had to curl my fingers under a bit to get to the inside row--or back my hand out of the straps quite a bit. I know this has been mentioned elsewhere, but this really should be a measurement that's given in listings, since most people won't have the opportunity to go into a shop and try out different concertinas. My hands aren't as huge as some, but I wear an XL glove. The Rochelle-2 that I had was okay, but I did have a tendency to overshoot the buttons sometimes. And on the Rochelle, I couldn't stick my hands all the way through the straps, for this exact reason. 

 

But I'd say that the instrument I now have (also pictured) would be unsuitable for most women, and many men with less than XL glove size. Even for me, reaching the 1A button, with my hands thrust fully into the straps, is doable but a definite reach. A lot of people would have to twist their hand around to get to it, which I don't think is optimal. In another thread, someone suggested movable hand rails. That would be good but, failing that, a sizing system based on glove size would be helpful to people buying online. The main measurement I've seen is the "key to key" width, which is better than nothing, but not the only measure that matters.

 

Incidentally, the diameter of the CI/Stagi is almost exactly the same as the Rochelle-2, at 6.25"

[David Barnert]

2 hours ago, Ubizmo said:

Incidentally, the diameter of the CI/Stagi is almost exactly the same as the Rochelle-2, at 6.25"

 

Six and a quarter inches “across the flats” is the standard default size for many concertinas.

[Ubizmo]

Here's another couple of questions:

On this CI/Stagi concertina, the bellows are less stiff than on the Rochelle-2 that I had, but if I push the bellows all the way in, there's a significant "rebound" of at least an inch; the same was true on the Rochelle-2. This, I take it, is just a result of the way the bellows are built, and not something that's going to change as the concertina is played more, right?

 

There's no strap to secure this concertina in the fully closed position. There wasn't one on the Rochelle-2 either, but I see in pictures that some concertinas have them. In fact, if I'm not mistake, in that video about the Concertine Italia factory, I think one of the ladies said it was important to secure the concertina in the fully closed position when not playing it (but I may be misremembering that). I noticed that some of the other Stagi/CI concertinas at Liberty Bellows had that strap; others didn't. Does this really matter?

 

When I'm not playing, I tend to leave the concertina out, on my desk, as in the picture above. I use the air button to put it into a "relaxed" state, not especially compressed or stretched, so there is no tendency to leave air pressure in it. I think on a better quality concertina, this relaxed state would be just about any bellows position other than overstretched, but these lower-end ones are more like springs, is that about right?

[Ubizmo]

Well...

Another button on the CI/Stagi abruptly choked, and yet another got strangely thin. I threw in the towel. I went back to Liberty Bellows and said I'd go back to the Rochelle-2. I felt like I couldn't have confidence in the CI/Stagi, and even though it was a much better fit for my hands, and sounded better (when notes didn't fail) I just didn't trust the build quality. I was a day late for the return window but they didn't give me any trouble and refunded the money in full, with no "restocking fee". 

 

So, back to the Rochelle-2 until such a time as I'm able to afford something actually decent. As I play it again, and I understand the instrument a little better, I realize that what I interpreted as "stiffness" of the bellows isn't that at all. It's resistance in the air flow, for whatever reason. But that's for another thread. 

[Caroline]

This is from a McNeela blog regarding storage:

• When storing your concertina, make sure that you keep the bellows compressed. Firstly, ensure that you have the bellows compressed by placing a tight elastic band around the instrument. Secondly, keep the concertina tightly packed in its hard case. Keeping the bellows compressed in this way prevents them from expanding and losing elasticity and means you won’t lose action on the concertina.

i don’t use a band, but I always put mine back in its case after playing.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Caroline

[David Barnert]

5 hours ago, Caroline said:

i don’t use a band, but I always put mine back in its case after playing.

 

That’s what most would do, assuming that the case is appropriately blocked.

 

[DaveRo]

A piece of board and four dowels:

It expands a few millimetres after lowering it in.

Always available to pick up and play.

 

[Don Taylor]

This keeps the bellow closed and helps with lifting the concertina out of, and back into, its case.  It also protects the furniture and the bottom of the concertina.

 

The base is an envelope of felt with a piece of thin stiff plastic (some old kitchen chopping mat) to keep it flat, it is about 1/2" larger all round than the base of the concertina.  The strap is just a piece of webbing with some Velcro sewn on to it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Don Taylor

[Steve Schulteis]

I keep mine in its case when I'm not playing it, mostly to prevent somebody bumping it or spilling something on it. But there's a lot to be said for keeping an instrument out where you can see it and pick it up to play with just because it's there. I think too much is made of compressing the bellows. Closed bellows is certainly the most stable position, but I don't see any reason an external force keeping it there would be necessary, especially for high quality bellows that don't spring back open on their own. Even the idea that the leather will prefer the shape it spends the most time in seems like a questionable justification - wouldn't half-open be better to minimize the forces experienced when playing? Maybe I'm missing something and the experienced repairers can fill me in.

[wunks]

That should also work great to keep an Ediophone from rolling off the table.

[Steve Schulteis]

14 hours ago, Caroline said:

This is from a McNeela blog regarding storage:

• ... Keeping the bellows compressed in this way prevents them from expanding and losing elasticity and means you won’t lose action on the concertina.

 

I would think that a neutral resting position would be the best way to avoid losing elasticity. But I didn't think elasticity was a desirable trait in a bellows either - I prefer it to move freely, without resistance.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Steve Schulteis

[Steve Schulteis]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:53 AM, Steve Schulteis said:

I would think that a neutral resting position would be the best way to avoid losing elasticity. But I didn't think elasticity was a desirable trait in a bellows either - I prefer it to move freely, without resistance.

 

In pondering this further, I think I read the McNeela quote backwards. They must be using "elasticity" to mean "not stiff" rather than "springy", as I initially interpreted it.

 

If we're talking about a bellows that springs back open on its own, then probably the top runs of leather are stretching tight as the bellows closes. In that case, keeping them stretched by storing the bellows in a compressed state makes sense to me, and I suppose that's probably the scenario being talked about here. For bellows that stay closed on their own, I remain skeptical of the necessity of holding them that way.

[Leah Velleman]

2 hours ago, Steve Schulteis said:

They must be using "elasticity" to mean "not stiff" rather than "springy", as I initially interpreted it.

That's right, yes. Maybe a better word than "elastic" would be "supple" or something.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Well. I store my concertina in its purpose made box [ I made back in 1999]  - inside a very plush special bag with a silky lining!

It does go end in [ with face up] and the bellows close by gravity - but in a well padded and soft interior, so nice I would not mind sleeping inside there myself it's so snug😊

 

[seanc]

Button Box used to have all their concertinas on their shelves.

 They were all secured with a strip of velcro. Fuzz on one side, hooks on the other

@ $5 for @ 30'. enough for at least 2-3 standard size concertinas.

 

 

Short money and nothing easier to use