Jeffries pad issue

[Jeremy]

I'm having a recurring issue with my 38 button C/G Jeffries where various pads don't quite form airtight seals, resulting in notes that play all the time when the buttons aren't depressed. It's happening with several different buttons intermittently. I bought the instrument, which was made in 1897, in Ireland in January, and it now lives in my home in Halifax, Canada. Until recently, the instrument worked flawlessly. I've taken the ends off several times as the issue has presented itself and gently tweaked the lever arms and pads in the hopes of kind of nudging things into place, but that hasn't helped. There is no visible damage to the pads and there is good resistance to pushing down the affected buttons. Anyone have any ideas on what's causing this or how to fix it in a lasting way?

Thanks!

[Geoff Wooff]

Perhaps  there is  wear  in the    lever  pivots  which  can  cause  problems  like  those  you  describe.    A  Jeffries  will have  done  a huge  amount  of  playing  over the  last  100  years  and  the  holes  in the  levers  and  the  rivetted  pivot  pins  are  bound  to  show  considerable  wear.

On  the  other  hand  perhaps  the  change  of  location  is  showing  problems caused  by  lower  or  higher humidity  ?

I  would  be  inclined  to  talk  with  a  good  restorer  of  concertinas.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Geoff Wooff

[Mike Acott]

Hello, For a few suggestions send me a private mail to mikeacott1944@gmail.com

[d.elliott]

Check the key travel, and how high the key top sits above the fingerplate when depressed. Also has the key cross bushing been replaced recently?

[Jeremy]

6 hours ago, d.elliott said:

Check the key travel, and how high the key top sits above the fingerplate when depressed. Also has the key cross bushing been replaced recently?

The button that's currently giving me issues is sitting noticeably higher than the surrounding buttons. Nearly 1mm. Looking at the rest of the buttons, there is definitely a height variation from button to button. When depressed, no visible height difference. I did replace one key cross bushing myself for another key that had been giving me the same problem, but that's because the bushing was missing - it must have fallen out and gotten lost when I took the endplates off, before I even got to the business of figuring out what was wrong. 

[Jeremy]

7 hours ago, Geoff Wooff said:

Perhaps  there is  wear  in the    lever  pivots  which  can  cause  problems  like  those  you  describe.    A  Jeffries  will have  done  a huge  amount  of  playing  over the  last  100  years  and  the  holes  in the  levers  and  the  rivetted  pivot  pins  are  bound  to  show  considerable  wear.

On  the  other  hand  perhaps  the  change  of  location  is  showing  problems caused  by  lower  or  higher humidity  ?

I  would  be  inclined  to  talk  with  a  good  restorer  of  concertinas.

 

Alas, there are none within a thousand km. I'd have to ship it off somewhere, likely across an international border, which I'll do if I have to but would prefer to avoid! 

[alex_holden]

If you take the end plate off, hold the action box up to a bright light, and look at the problematic pad hole from the bottom side, you might see a sliver of light that gives you a clue as to where the air is getting past the pad.

[Theo]

3 hours ago, Jeremy said:

The button that's currently giving me issues is sitting noticeably higher than the surrounding buttons. Nearly 1mm. 

This can happen if the pivot post pulls out of the wood of the action board.  This reduces the pressure on the pad and can lead to leaks.

[malcolm clapp]

Lots of good suggestions already posted; I would add my 10c worth and suspect that if the pads are original and 120+ years old, at least some of them may have reached their "use by" date. Tweaking the lever arms may have even exacerbated the problem as it only needs a couple of degrees of tilt to allow air to pass through without pushing a button.

 

I'm sure there are a few experts in Canada who could assist you with a good action overhaul. Frank Edgley comes to mind. Not that close to you, but at least it would save the potential hassle of international shipping.

[d.elliott]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:47 AM, Jeremy said:

I'm having a recurring issue with my 38 button C/G Jeffries where various pads don't quite form airtight seals, resulting in notes that play all the time when the buttons aren't depressed. It's happening with several different buttons intermittently. I bought the instrument, which was made in 1897, in Ireland in January, and it now lives in my home in Halifax, Canada. Until recently, the instrument worked flawlessly. I've taken the ends off several times as the issue has presented itself and gently tweaked the lever arms and pads in the hopes of kind of nudging things into place, but that hasn't helped. There is no visible damage to the pads and there is good resistance to pushing down the affected buttons. Anyone have any ideas on what's causing this or how to fix it in a lasting way?

Thanks!

Check that the pivot post has not backed out of the wood, or that the lever fulcrum is not damaged. I suspect you may have an action arm problem, one where the pad is not closing properly when everything is screwed up together.

[Jeremy]

So it turns out the fulcrums were fine as far as I could tell. The pad for the button that was always sounding was the left hand B/C, quite a long action arm to the pad, and for whatever reason it wasn't consistently covering the hole. Looking at the bottom of the pad, I can see the hole's wear mark, and it's -right- up against the edge of the pad. It's been barely covering that hole for decades. A careful, tiny bend to the action arm brought the pad solidly over the hole, and now it's playing beautifully again. Thanks everyone for your replies! Hopefully this resolves it for good, at least for that button.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Jeremy
incorrect terminology