Valve punches

[fred v]

Do you need to make the ends round?

[alex_holden]

44 minutes ago, fred v said:

Do you need to make the ends round?

 

No. I think they are commonly rounded because it's easier to make a punch with rounded ends.

[Sandy Winters]

Alex, you're right again😊. You don't 'need' to make the ends rounded but they look much nicer and more original if they are. Really a pain to do by hand but very easy with the right size gouges.

[Theo]

“Original”. Depends on the context.

 

Many Jeffries concertinas seem to have had rectangular valves originally.

 

The quality and thickness of the leather are far more important. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Theo

[mChavez]

If you don't mind me asking - where do you UK folks source your leather from?

 

Thank you.

[alex_holden]

On 9/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, mChavez said:

If you don't mind me asking - where do you UK folks source your leather from?

 

Thank you.

 

I import CPL from Columbia Organ Leathers in the US for smaller valves, but I find it's too thin and floppy above a certain size. I haven't had much success with the thickness they sell as "valve" that is fluffy on both sides. I mostly use "extra heavy" and "heavy".

 

I have been using a thicker sheepskin from Russels' Organ Leather for my bass valves, but their web site is down right now. UPDATE: it turns out they have just moved to a new web address: https://www.russellfineleathers.com/organ-and-musical

 

To be honest even the Russels' sheepskin isn't thick enough for very low bass reeds without assistance, and I sometimes resort to adding accordion valve helper springs, which works but it's a bit of extra hassle. If anyone has a source for very thick soft springy leather suitable for bass valves I'd be interested to hear about it.

 

I have sometimes wondered if it would work to glue two layers of CPL together to make a double thickness leather.

 

I tried buying an assorted pack of leather accordion valves once and was surprised by how thin and floppy they were. Not suitable for my purposes at all.

Edited September 29, 2023 by alex_holden

[mChavez]

Thank you for the reply.

 

What leather do we need? Veg tan? Or some special treatment?

If it's bog standard veg tan, I've used Le Prevo in Newcastle about a decade ago and they were good - their website is still up.

 

I'm restoring an old bandoneon, and I've replaced all leathers with plastic, but I find that I'm getting a nasty high pitched zing on some lower reeds. I suspect that plastic valves are backfiring and buzzing against the plate. In my very limited experience, if a leather valve backfires, it's more of a snorting sound, but my guess is that plastic produces more of a high pitched, almost metallic flap.

 

Alternatively, it could be the very floppy bando reeds on relatively thin plates fluttering against the valve (i.e. a valve does not open far enough and the reed whacks it). Not sure if this is possible at all.

 

If it's of any interest, Here's how the original bando leather valves were reinforced (with more leather)

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by mChavez

[Alex West]

I've used C A Cornish in the UK https://www.cacornish.co.uk/musical-instruments/

 

I could be wrong but I believe it was Dave Elliott who spoke to them and set them up to market leather for concertina components.  You do have to be specific about the sizes and thicknesses you require for the appropriate reed slot size but I've found them to be helpful and deliver quickly.  I've not used them for very big valves

 

Alex West

 

[alex_holden]

4 minutes ago, mChavez said:

What leather do we need? Veg tan? Or some special treatment?

 

...

 

If it's of any interest, Here's how the original bando leather valves were reinforced (with more leather)

 

I believe the Columbia Organ Leathers CPL is a chrome tanned hair sheep leather. It's good quality, just not very thick. It's light grey in colour.

 

The leather from Russels is "Salt and Alum Tawed" sheepskin (I'm guessing from a hair sheep?). It's bleached white in colour. They sold me a small skin and a large skin. The small skin (presumably from a lamb rather than an adult sheep) is thinner and more supple, which makes it too floppy for valves in my experience. I tend to only use the large skin and split it when I need it to be a bit thinner.

 

The reinforced bandoneon valves are fascinating. I ought to give that a try sometime.

[mChavez]

Thank you.

 

Yes, interesting valves. You can also see that all the valve ends were skived.

I haven't seen valves like that on accordions, but the bando is 1934, and I've never looked inside a pre-war accordion.

[alex_holden]

I just did some more investigation and discovered that Russels Leather has gained an 'L' and lost an 'S' and in the process moved from their old website at russels.com (which is still what shows up in Google searches) to Russell Fine Leathers:

https://www.russellfineleathers.com/organ-and-musical

[Bassconcertina.net]

What kind of leather is used for valves anyway, I noticed it seems lighter than normal leather.

[SteveS]

22 minutes ago, Bassconcertina.net said:

What kind of leather is used for valves anyway, I noticed it seems lighter than normal leather.

Sheep skin

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Whilst attempting the almost impossible task of trying to sort the 8000? concertina related items stored on the computer, I came across this: Valve punch.doc

 

I did make one and it worked OK.

 

Geoff

[SteveS]

Thanks Geoff - this is awesome.

[Mike Acott]

I took some samples to a small toolmaker locally , the set of 6 sizes are  in stainless  steel and are still working well today after 23 years +. 

Mike

[Dana Johnson]

Nothing special about round ends. It is important to cut the valves with the direction of least stretch as the long direction of the valve though.