Are you a musician?

[John Adey]

In the recent topic where someone asked how many members were teachers -http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11715&st=0-, the point was made that we’ve probably all been teachers of one sort or another, as well as acting as doctors and fulfilling other roles. In the same thread I suggested, in a move that took a certain amount of bravado for me, that we were all ‘MUSICIANS’.

 

I say ‘bravado’ because although I’ve been playing music for the last 30+ years – first on guitar and later concertina – I have, until recently, never dared call myself a musician; to do so would feel, and still feels, presumptuous and arrogant. When others referred to me as such I have never felt the title fitted. Although music has always been important for me and I've been making music for a long time now, I somehow had assumed that the title ‘musician’ was reserved for that small band of people who seemed ‘naturals’ at their instrument, and some, who I thought of as ‘real musicians’, seemed to produce music even when they just picked up any instrument, even if it was for the first time.

 

Without getting into the issue of to what extent musical ability is a matter of natural predisposition or sheer hard work and application, I wonder how many other forum members struggle with seeing themselves as ‘musicians’? At a common sense level the title seems appropriate for us all, whatever our level of ability, and I’m reminded of a beautiful saying of one of my teachers, which was:

 

‘You cannot choose not to be an artist; you were born an artist’.

 

I’d like to think that applied to being a musician as well, but I don’t feel that to be true for me. How do you feel, and do you think/feel the label ‘musician’ is for the select few, or is it for us all?

 

Edited September 8, 2010 by John Adey

[Randy Stein]

In the recent topic where someone asked how many members were teachers -http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11715&st=0-, the point was made that we've probably all been teachers of one sort or another, as well as acting as doctors and fulfilling other roles. In the same thread I suggested, in a move that took a certain amount of bravado for me, that we were all 'MUSICIANS'.

 

I say 'bravado' because although I've been playing music for the last 30+ years – first on guitar and later concertina – I have, until recently, never dared call myself a musician; to do so would feel, and still feels, presumptuous and arrogant. When others referred to me as such I have never felt the title fitted. Although music has always been important for me and I've been making music for a long time now, I somehow had assumed that the title 'musician' was reserved for that small band of people who seemed 'naturals' at their instrument, and some, who I thought of as 'real musicians', seemed to produce music even when they just picked up any instrument, even if it was for the first time.

 

Without getting into the issue of to what extent musical ability is a matter of natural predisposition or sheer hard work and application, I wonder how many other forum members struggle with seeing themselves as 'musicians'? At a common sense level the title seems appropriate for us all, whatever our level of ability, and I'm reminded of a beautiful saying of one of my teachers, which was:

 

'You cannot choose not to be an artist; you were born an artist'.

 

I'd like to think that applied to being a musician as well, but I don't feel that to be true for me. How do you feel, and do you think/feel the label 'musician' is for the select few, or is it for us all?

 

Discuss.

I play...therefore I am

[Ransom]

On a related note, I tend to hate the question "Are you a dancer?".

 

I have found the most satisfactory answer to be: "I dance".

[david_boveri]

I consider myself a musician. Whether or not I'm a good one is another matter...

[NoNaYet]

When I learned to play the trombone in the 5th grade, and continued into high school, I was not a musician.

 

When I dabbled with the guitar, coronet, and flute I was reaching for it.

 

When I really worked at the fiddle, and started playing in public (nearly having a heat attack each time), I was getting close.

 

When I took up my concertina, no lessons, no teacher, only a fingering chart, and found that not only could I play it, but all those songs trapped in my head could come out; then I was darned near close. Every time I busk for craic and get smiles, or complements, but most of all requests, I think I am darned close.

 

My daughter has a music degree in low brass. If it's brass she can play it, and a whole lot of other instruments too. She can also discuss music theory and improvisation in ways I cannot begin to understand; but she doesn't really have the interest in playing for fun in public. I hopes she finds this later on, like I did.

 

I suppose my real bonafides might be something that took me by surprise. When my daughter applied for the music program she had to explain why she wanted in the program. She wrote a letter explaining how she had always had had music in her heart, and had heard music and been given the opportunity for lessons all her life; how she had been inspired by her father to learn to play an instrument. She topped it off with her surprise when she found that the old man was a trombone player (before her time) just like her.

 

I have that letter framed in my office.

 

NNY

Edited September 9, 2010 by NoNaYet

[JimLucas]

Too difficult.

Let's go back to one of our simpler previous discussions, like debating the definition of "professional", or "concertina".

Like so many terms, "musician" has many meanings, varying according to (among other possible factors)

• the person who uses it
  
• the person who hears/sees it used
  
• the cultures each grew up in (e.g., family, school, music school, FaceBook, etc.)
  
• the textual context in which it's used
  
• the social context in which it's used

But as I sit here with my wet blanket, I'll say that I do consider myself to be a "musician"... because

• various people whose opinion and taste I respect have described me as such
  
• I have seen that when I play and sing music, it is enjoyed by a great many of those listening

The amount of money I've made from my music has never been a significant part of my income, so I'm not a "professional" musician. But simply a "musician"? Definitely yes.

[cboody]

Yeah I guess I'm a musician in most folk's terms because of years of musical training and years of teaching and conducting music. I don't think I'm much of a musician as far as the concertina is concerned though. I agree with the poster who feels the question is not a good one because the definition is so nebulous.

 

I like the Robert Shaw reminder about "amateur" better: He would say first that the word comes from the same root as the word for "love." And then he would remind everyone that there is no implication at all about ability implied in the term. Certainly I've known professional musicians who were "amateurs" and some who were not. And, even some who weren't really very good musicians!!! And, I've known amateur musicians who could play at a level well beyond many professionals. I've even know some folks who don't play anything who are, in my opinion, musicians in the sense that they respond to music and hear what is going on. To me those are the keys to the definition of a musician.

 

Boy is this a wandering post!

[stormforce10]

Am I a musician

I only know one tune well enough to play in the pub.

Sunday afternoon I played this tune.

Later on someone came up to me and said would you like a drink, I said, pardon,

he said all the musicians get a free drink.

So I guess I must be a musician.

 

and I'm off for my free drink next time !!

 

Roger

[Chris Timson]

It's a state of mind. 7 years ago I had a stroke from which, I'm glad to say, over time I made a nearly full recovery. When I saw a physiotherapist the day after and she asked me the sort of things I do and when told her I sang and played concertina her face lit up! She explained that it's because musicians fight the effects of stroke more than most, and tend on average to make a better recovery. Do you know, she was right! For a while it stopped me playing and I absolutely hated that. I hadn't realised how much of my self image was tied up with playing. I really resented it and fought it. So, yes, I may not be the best musician you'll ever meet, in fact in many ways I'm pretty limited, but in my self image and in my relationship to the music I'm a musician to the core ...

 

Chris

 

PS this appears to be post no. 3000 for me on this board. Clearly the stroke didn't stop me talking too much!

Edited September 9, 2010 by Chris Timson

[LDT]

Nope. I'm not a musician in my opinion. Until I can read music and play by ear properly (not cheating and writing down button numbers) and someone wants to voluntarily sit and listen to me play than I'll be a musician. but at the moment I'm just making a racket.

Edited September 9, 2010 by LDT

[Steve Mansfield]

Interesting topic.

 

I'd definately call myself a musician, and others have been good enough to do the same.

 

There's still that occasional lurking uncertainty or insecurity at the very back of the head, though.

 

I've had very little formal training or tuition (indeed I occasionally think of doing a music degree once I retire from the day job), so what knowledge and understanding I possess has been absorbed as I go along.

 

To put it another way I've got a full and varied musical CV stretching back over 30 years now, but absolutely no qualifications other than those gained from the Music Department of the University of Life.

 

So the concern goes that one day I'll be playing somewhere, and someone will tap me on the shoulder and say 'sorry mate, there's been a misunderstanding. You've had a good run, but we've found you out. You're in the wrong place, this is musicians only. Off you go ... '

[michael sam wild]

It's been one of the main threads in my life and always pulls me through bad times. It's a very important part of how I define myself to myself.

 

Since I retired from teaching it's what I put on my calling cards.

 

 

Someone once described William Kimber as a 'bricklayer by trade and by profession a musician.'

 

 

When playing for dances and in sessions etc it is a word (one of many!) used to describe me.

 

 

When climbing was the main way of life I was referred to as a climber but I was also a teacher so I suppose it's the context within which people confer the title.

 

 

I think there has to be a communal context and some conferment by other people close to you. Just as you are not a 'traditional musician' just becasue you sing or play traditional music in a traditional idiom.

[hjcjones]

Jim is certainly right when he says that culture and context play a part. There are some snobs who would say that no concertina player, no matter how talented, could be a "musician". However I think Chris and Mike have put their fingers on it. It's about music being so important to you that you have the urge to create music yourself and willingly undergo all the difficulties and frustrations that involves. Without that feeling, you are not a musician, you just play an instrument. However to be recognised as a musician by others probably implies a certain level of ability as well.

[NoNaYet]

Am I a musician

I only know one tune well enough to play in the pub.

Sunday afternoon I played this tune.

Later on someone came up to me and said would you like a drink, I said, pardon,

he said all the musicians get a free drink.

So I guess I must be a musician.

 

and I'm off for my free drink next time !!

 

Roger

 

 

That is a great story. That is kind of the way I feel when, instead of just listening, someone asks me "do you know ________?" I figure if they think enough of my playing to want to hear something specific, I must be doing OK.

 

I posted about another occurance, the gist of which was that I gathered a crowd at a playing event, ended up playing about twice as long as I planned, got asked to repeat some songs, and in the end got video streamed to someone's family that wanted to hear a tune. That was a great night :-)

[Devon Hare]

Hmmmm... I suppose 'being a musician' in the professional sense does involve discipline, rehearsal, performance and payment. I do 'make music' but certainly not in the professional way. But I also think there's a difference in playing along on the edge of a session (where I usually am) or playing solo and exposed in front of a critical audience. In the former the odd wrong note may not matter - in the latter it makes for red faces. Of course, it's all 'music' - but I believe there are degrees of musicianship. I am a 'musician' when I play a good piece of music on my own (or with a select and practiced group) - very well - and to an appreciative audience.

[Michael Eskin]

Yeah, I'd consider myself a musician.

[Chris Timson]

However to be recognised as a musician by others probably implies a certain level of ability as well.

For a negative instance of this I offer the bodhran thrasher who desperately wants to be a musician but doesn't want the assoiciated hassle of actually learning an instrument.

 

Chris

[michael sam wild]

Here we go!