What impact has the internet and WWW had on our concertina community?

[michael sam wild]

In last Sunday's Observer (UK) there was a very thought provoking article by John Naughton who is a Prof at the Open Uiversity as well as writing the regular 'Networker' articles. He discusses the unknown into which we are venturing and compares it with the unforeseen impact of printing e.g. bibles - reformation- dissent- science - etcetc

 

A facinating thought experiment and one which will be only apparent with hindsight might be to consider what our networking and use of the net has had and might have on the world of concertinas.

 

 

There have been massive changes since the 90s when it kicked off for most of us I reckon.

 

For my own part this network gave me the confidence to get involved in a hitherto arcane subject, eBay got me my first decent instrument. I learned how to maintain it, found digitised print, sound, photos and video; learned Abc and hence how to read dots; allowed me to interface with teachers across the globe.

 

I am beginning to generate these things myself. The music business has been revolutionised, artists can interact with audiences and promote direct, we have an international community.

 

 

How many more changes will occur ?

 

 

He ends up citing Aldous Huxley who said what we love will destroy us and George Orwell said it would be used to control us by fear.

 

 

 

I sometimes think it takes up too muh time and I'll just opt out and play a squeezebox in private or with a few friends which is where I was I think a few years ago. A bit like fire can it be a great servant or a fierce master?

 

 

In the past all it took was an instrument, a few mates, a magazine subscription or two , a good radio show, a few LPs and lots of live sessions and festivals and bands, and a cheap cassette recorder.

Edited June 23, 2010 by michael sam wild

[michael sam wild]

Sorry here's a link

 

http://www.guardian....ng-need-to-know

Edited June 22, 2010 by michael sam wild

[michael sam wild]

Oops!

 

 

Edited June 22, 2010 by michael sam wild

[Woody]

Oops!

Is it starting to destroy you already????

[tombilly]

Well, is that not a bit of a 'silly' question as obviously this concertina community wouldn't exist with the internet... but I don't think it's had much impact on local musical communities. i.e. there are many people here in Ireland who would be playing away and who have little contact with the WWW for musical purposes etc.

[David Levine]

TB, that's true. Those of us who are members of internet lists and groups tend to overestimate the importance of the net in the overall scheme of things musical. The net is more valuable to those who aren't part of a large community of traditional musicians.

[michael sam wild]

TB, I accept we are discussing this because of the technology. I did ask where is might all be going and what the impact might be long term.

[David Levine]

Long term I see the specific tradition of ITM, at any rate, as being diluted. Regional musical dialects become less distinctive and a globalization takes place as music become more homogenized. So far regional dialects have been preserved by local teachers invested in the tradition but all musicians will start to draw from the body of music outside their geographical area. I am part of the diluting effect.

On the plus side, specific tunes are far more easily accessed and such things as The Amazing Downloader and Tunepal make learning new tunes much easier. At any rate, for good or ill, you can't resist the changes, which are inevitable in any case.

[Jody Kruskal]

TB, I accept we are discussing this because of the technology. I did ask where is might all be going and what the impact might be long term.

 

These are interesting questions.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the net has opened up many worlds of traditional and historical music to anyone who wants to check it out. As I pursue interesting sounds, ideas and rare old performances in my fields of research, the net provides availability to a vast collection of recordings, other like minded folks and their work, really a searchable, collective knowledge of the world. That knowledge was just not possible for me to access using books, libraries and pre-digital forms of recordings. I knew that really interesting stuff was out there, but I just could not find enough of it to maintain artistic growth at a pace that was satisfying.

 

You no longer have to go to a specific location to hear and see what folks are playing - singing - dancing in their communities. Youtube and many other fine sites created and maintained by enthusiasts allow anyone with an internet connection to check out authentic music worldwide... but only as an observer or presenter.

 

The web does not replace live performance. Local traditions need their communities to provide context. Live music, real experiences, and face to face contact between and among performers and audience too will always be essential for traditions to continue. We must not equate the wonders of the net with the riches of our own local traditions.

 

Perhaps as technology improves we will solve the latency problem and be able to play music with each other across the globe. Would that be cool or what? I could organize a session with my favorite players and we could play live with each other while being in our own homes, all plugged into our computers on the web and interacting in audio and video too. I would like that, but it would not replace the rich freedom found in live interaction, face to face and playing in a real acoustic space with a pint near at hand. Can I buy you one?

 

My skype lessons have come close to the fantasy. Though I cannot play in time with my net students as I do with my live ones. When I say "use button L4a with the middle finger" and they respond by doing so, then real interaction is happening, learning is imparted and location on the globe is irrelevant.

 

Amazing times we are living in.

[Alan Day]

TB, I accept we are discussing this because of the technology. I did ask where is might all be going and what the impact might be long term.

 

These are interesting questions.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the net has opened up many worlds of traditional and historical music to anyone who wants to check it out. As I pursue interesting sounds, ideas and rare old performances in my fields of research, the net provides availability to a vast collection of recordings, other like minded folks and their work, really a searchable, collective knowledge of the world. That knowledge was just not possible for me to access using books, libraries and pre-digital forms of recordings. I knew that really interesting stuff was out there, but I just could not find enough of it to maintain artistic growth at a pace that was satisfying.

 

You no longer have to go to a specific location to hear and see what folks are playing - singing - dancing in their communities. Youtube and many other fine sites created and maintained by enthusiasts allow anyone with an internet connection to check out authentic music worldwide... but only as an observer or presenter.

 

The web does not replace live performance. Local traditions need their communities to provide context. Live music, real experiences, and face to face contact between and among performers and audience too will always be essential for traditions to continue. We must not equate the wonders of the net with the riches of our own local traditions.

 

Perhaps as technology improves we will solve the latency problem and be able to play music with each other across the globe. Would that be cool or what? I could organize a session with my favorite players and we could play live with each other while being in our own homes, all plugged into our computers on the web and interacting in audio and video too. I would like that, but it would not replace the rich freedom found in live interaction, face to face and playing in a real acoustic space with a pint near at hand. Can I buy you one?

 

My skype lessons have come close to the fantasy. Though I cannot play in time with my net students as I do with my live ones. When I say "use button L4a with the middle finger" and they respond by doing so, then real interaction is happening, learning is imparted and location on the globe is irrelevant.

 

Amazing times we are living in.

I realised that Jody when you and I played a duet on this site both recordings done in different parts of the World.

Something I am certain will develop with other musicians as time goes by.

Al

[Marien]

David,

 

It may be so that the internet and globalisation threathens regional variations of tunes.

The net gives a bulk of tunes (not just ITM).

 

So, it is not only RSI that is threatening us, so that gives us 2 good reasons to reduce using the internet. Picking tunes up in local sessions, may be a "better" way to learn them - and noticing the music can differ from one session to another, not just caused by different regions or instruments.

 

But the global force is not just the internet. There already was a globalising influence of known bands. Such as wanting to play it the same way in the way your favorite ITM heroes plays it (especially when that is the only version you know).

 

When I play ITM on the other side of the North Sea people often ask me: So you must know the (fill out the name of any famous Irish band or player). They don't know other versions and the worse thing is when musicians you play with only know one version and they are going to tell you that you are playing it "wrong". Yaghh, it's like playing in a cover band....

 

On the other hand, it seems okay to me that famous bands and internet archives are a good source to promote ITM. It is a good starting point for new players to get to know ITM - especially for those who do not have the opportunity to visit local sessions - no matter whether it concerns the Orkneys, Waxford, Mayo, Brest, Offaly, Inverness or Hawaii. Eventually the really interested people will be crazy enough to get to know the local sessions and tune variations in Celtica - wherever that may be.

 

Marien

[Randy Stein]

Back in the 60s and 70s I did a fair amount of studio work, overdubs, background, demos and jingles, until electronics were able to recreate the sounds of other instruments including the concertina. Then I went from half dozen or more sessions a month to a couple if I was lucky. While I attended traditional music sessions, Irish and old time traditional music is not my forte. Then along comes the internet and youtube and I am not only connected with players all over the world but the music is archived for posterity. The costs of promotional and marketing materials were astronomical and very time consuming. Now I just send an email with a youtube link. I love technology!

However nothing takes the place of a live session or performance. In DC and NYC live venues are well attended and audiences are quite appreciative to see and hear well performed live entertainment. What the internet does not replace is practice.

rss

[chris]

Hi

I've never developed RSI in the 40 odd years that I've been playing music on a variety of instruments, however since I've been researching on the internet I have developed RSI (bad Posture) and am now having to use a mouse with my left hand (+improved posture) Fortunately, whilst it b****rs up a lot of things it doesn't seem to affect playing guitar or concertina.

 

so there are good and bad effects with the internet - it won't stop my research, but the discomfort just becomes a bit irritating.

 

chris

[michael sam wild]

David does that make your quote about evil flourishing where people do nothing, on your profile appropriate ? Or is the web more of a boon than a threat?

I'd like to think we can use it as we wish for its benefits but we must be alert to the potential hazards.

 

 

I'm not a Luddite but as a long term environmental, comunity and cultural activist and campaigner I know the pitfalls of embracing modern technology without looking ahead and being cautious.

 

 

The 'precautionary principle' does apply and one could say that regional styles and individuality equate to biodiversity as opposed to monoculture or conformity, standardisation and centralisation.

 

 

We just got back from the English Country Music Weekend which was good fun and , whilst there was a mass session playing familiar standard tunes , dotted around were people in huddles exploring regional tunes and demonstrations of individuality and family or community based traditions and styles .

 

 

http://www.pprincipl..._principle.html

Edited June 24, 2010 by michael sam wild

[David Levine]

Mike- I wasn't judging whether it's good or bad to have access to music other than one's local tunes. It's just the way things are. One local player here laments the fact that things aren't the way they were forty years ago. Another very local player appreciates the influx of new tunes and players from out of the area. I think we often take it all a bit too seriously. It's best when it's just some friends getting together for a few laughs and a few tunes.

[SteveS]

I think the Web has contributed to the excessive prices some people are prepared to pay for instruments.

[hjcjones]

I don't think a sizeable "concertina community" would exist without the internet. Of course, there were (and always will be) local communities of musicians, and I recognise that cnet only represents a small (and not necessarily representative) subset of all concertina players. However it's nevertheless probably far larger, more widespread and more active than anything which went before, such as the ICA which before the internet was probably the nearest thing to a community.

 

I taught myself to play mostly in isolation, picking up tips here and there from other players as I came across them. I also picked up snippets of history here and there, but really I knew very little about the instrument, and in particular about construction and the factors affecting sound. Now there's masses of information available, and knowledgeable advice can be had on request.

 

It's also made buying and selling easier, although SteveS may be right to say it has contributed to the rise in prices. Until the internet, I had never come across a Jeffries being offered for sale (although I wasn't actively looking for one). Now they seem to pop up every other week.

Edited June 24, 2010 by hjcjones

[Jim Besser]

In last Sunday's Observer (UK) there was a very thought provoking article by John Naughton who is a Prof at the Open Uiversity as well as writing the regular 'Networker' articles. He discusses the unknown into which we are venturing and compares it with the unforeseen impact of printing e.g. bibles - reformation- dissent- science - etcetc

 

A facinating thought experiment and one which will be only apparent with hindsight might be to consider what our networking and use of the net has had and might have on the world of concertinas.

 

 

The Internet has:

 

- created enormous cross-fertilization of genres, styles. It's exposed me to music I never would have heard otherwise and sent me off in unexpected directions like French dance music.

 

- created a genuine international community of players. I've met and played with people from all over because of connections on the Web. There are folks here I've been communicating with since c.net began.

 

- made it almost impossible to find that thrift-store Jeffries or garage-sale Wheatstone, since almost everybody knows how to use Ebay and get a fair market price for valuables

 

- but - it's provided a worldwide market for buying concertinas. I've purchased all my instruments through dealers or builders I learned about on the Web; I made decisions about what to buy largely through input of other members of this online community.

 

- provided endless, instant access to tunes. I needed an obscure tune last week for a dance gig; found it instantly on an ABC site. Remember how hard it was in pre-Web, pre-ABC days to find notation for a tune you wanted to learn? Or recordings? Remember going to record stores and peering at individual albums, trying to find a specific tune you wanted? Now it's all instantly accessible.

 

- served as an incredible source of information. I've tried repairs because I had guidance from experts on c.net.

 

- linked local musicians. In my area, it's how we all learn what's going on, where to go to play, etc.