Alex West

Gerry Here's the key map of "my" instrument as if it was a CG rather than as Stephen has suggested possibly a B/F#. Bearing in mind that it appears to be in 1/4 comma meantone so there are D# as well as Eb keys, this looks pretty similar to 32 key Jeffries which I've had/seen so I think that also matches Stephen's comments about Jones being the precursor of the "Jeffries standard" pattern Alex West

Remembering back to the first restoration I did, I gave up in frustration that what I did just didn't seem to work. I was using Dave's book, but the buttons continued to stick and in the end I passed the job on to a professional. The lesson I learned was that it was me that was at fault, not Dave's book! You have to follow Dave's guidance extremely carefully, make sure you have decent materials, establish a procedure for yourself and learn (or acquire) a large dose of patience. Once I learned to take my time and accomplish the task correctly, I managed several successful repairs and complete restoration. Inevitably (and it still happens), if I try to do things to a deadline, I end up having to repeat or restart. Alex West

Try saying his name out loud. Doh! OK, You got me! Alex West

I saw that Stephen, but there aren't any pictures of the internals or the bellows papers and whilst the gilding is superficially simlar, it's nowhere near identical to the later "standard" Jeffries/Crabb pattern. It's clear on this instrument that Charles Jeffries was quite proud of his manufacture/assembly/marketing/engraving (BTW, for someone alleged to be illiterate, there was obviously someone in the workshop who knew how to put words together in the stamping). I'm not anxious to attribute "my" instrument to Jeffries; it has more similarities to a Crabb I think except for the action and the reeds - which is what led me down the path of Jones Alex West

Thanks John I'm sure you've seen more concertinas than I have so you're spotting things I haven't seen. Most of the Shakespeares I've seen pictures of have more crude fretwork than this one, and the button spacing doesn't look much different than a 32 key Jeffires I have so I didn't think that was a key factor. I thought the keyhole action posts were typically Jones, although I have seen a picture of a Shakespeare with keyhole posts (but I've also seen them with straight posts). I hadn't heard of Geoff Rhys before. How could I confirm that his hands had been involved? Alex West

Stephen Interesting observation. I suppose there's a philosophical debate about whether "my" instrument is a Jones put together by Jeffries or the other way round (but probably before Jeffries started working his magic on the reeds). Since the major components affecting the musicality and performance look to be typical of a George Jones, then I shouldn't get too concerned about the fretwork, bellows paper and gilding being more Crabb/Jeffries like? But is there enough about the action and reeds which confirm that this is in origin a Jones? Is it significant that there's no makers identification anywhere? Would there be any clue about what date (or range of dates) this might be from? Once Crabb and Jeffries got going with the more typical Crabb/Jeffries style, did George Jones carry on producing similar styled instruments or did he move on? And who on earth would commission a baroque pitch (A=415Hz) unequal temperament instrument in the 1870s/1880s? Alex West

Thanks Greg Here's a couple of photos of one of the Jones? reeds with the equivalent Jeffries reed alongside it. In case you can't read my scribbles, the Jeffries reed shoe is 2.3mm thick (and that's similar to other Jeffries reed measurements I've taken) and the mystery reed shoe is 2.45mm thick. I'm not sure if you can see on the photo but the mystery reed looks to have been pressed with straight sides and then ground to a slope to fit into a dovetailed slot which gives it a "waisted" appearance. The mystery reed is 2.5mm wide at the tip and the Jeffries reed is 2.45mm at the tip so the mystery is certainly not broad (although that may not be significant if, as has been reported, Jones made reeds in varying widths). I've also added a shot of the mystery left side reedpan alongside the Jeffries Alex West

I’m working on a mystery instrument at the moment and I’d appreciate some help in determining who might have been the original maker. Externally it looks like a Crabb or Jeffries; internally it looks more like a George Jones but I don’t know enough about Jones to know all of the distinguishing features. What’s puzzling is that it’s a real mixture of very good quality and some less high quality execution. There are no obvious identification marks or date guides. Externally, the metal fretwork is almost identical to a Jeffries. The pattern is very similar – the scrollwork is finer than some but the execution of the saw cuts is not as good. There is no reinforcing solder at the bolt holes so the metal is a little floppy. The bellows are well constructed with typical Jeffries/Crabb gold decoration. The papers are green based Crabb style with a perfect Celtic cross pattern, two dolphins and no chevron Internally, there is a number stamp of 212 on the bushing board, the action pan, the bellows frames and the reed pans. The action posts look to be typical Jones “keyhole” pattern and the levers have quite crudely cut threads – very long threads on some levers and almost none on others. The buttons seem to be mostly ivory (characteristic stripe pattern) but one or two are bone (characteristic black specks). The reed pans are typically Crabb/Jeffries rectangular pattern. Some of the slots seem to be badly routed (evidence of the router going too deep on one or two slots). The reeds themselves seem to be very well made. They have some of the closest tolerances I’ve ever seen. No evidence of reed tempering (no colour on the underside of the reed except for the two which have a bit of solder on the tip). The reed frames (with one exception) are the thickest I’ve ever measured and the stamping appears to be a typical Crabb rather than Lachenal font. The exception is the lowest note, stamped C which looks to be around the thickness I’d expect for a Lachenal reed shoe. The reeds are stamped as a typical C/G and the concertina plays as a C/G with a home pitch of A=415Hz (Baroque pitch) and in ¼ comma meantone with a root note of C So my key question is, did George Jones make his high end concertinas with exteriors which looked like Crabb? Or did Crabb make bellows and fretwork with Jones internals? Any idea what date might be appropriate? Alex West

Prisca I've not tried a Kensington, Wolverton or other new make which might fit your budget for a "real concertina reed" instrument. I've a friend with a Seven Mount instrument which would fit your budget and from memory, it's worth considering (mind you, his is a GD so didn't have the nasal sound you say you're looking for) - but the maker's website (http://sevenmount.de/) indicates that he's not taking new orders at the moment. I've played a couple of Suttners, one of which was fabulous (30 key, small format - Kate MacNamara's so well played in), the other I wasn't as impressed with (39 key, nearly brand new - just not a very "special" sound). Have you considered a vintage instrument? For €4,000, you could get a Jeffries or Wheatstone from an auction but you'd be likely to have a considerable restoration effort (or bill!) so I'd suggest they're out of your search. However, you could consider a vintage Crabb, Ball Beavon, Shakespeare or George Jones, all of which I've tried. The Crabb and Ball Beavon would sound pretty similar to a Jeffries (depending on the particular vintage and instrument) but wouldn't have the cachet and the special reed sound from a top Jeffries (but then you maybe don't need or want that? - you'd be unlikely to get the Jeffries sound from a new instrument). The Shakespeare perhaps doesn't quite have the dynamic power of the Jeffries/Crabb/Ball Beavon but it's a nice sound and the speed should all be there (rivetted action, well voiced reeds) and you'd likely have change from your budget. The George Jones might be just as good as a Jeffries, again depending on the instrument. I've one on my bench at the moment which I think is a George Jones and which could be up there with the best. I think it's unlikely that you'd get the sound you're looking for from a Lachenal unless it was their Special anglo - which I believe exist but I've not seen one. If the action and reed quality is anything like the New Model Duet, then it would be worth considering. There's no reason that a carefully maintained/refurbished/restored vintage instrument should be any less durable than a new instrument. My main squeeze is from the 1890s, is used very regularly, is still on its original bellows and given that I'm in reasnoable health is likely to see me out without needing major repair./. Of course, if you're as rough on the bellows as (say) Niall Vallelly or Mohsen Amini seem to be, then it doesn't matter what age your concertina, you're going to need new bellows every so often and maybe your action might need running repairs as well. With any vintage instrument - and probably the new makes as well - the individual characteristics of each concertina vary so that might make it difficult to match the instrument to you (the concertina picks you, not the other way round!) so there might not be a substitute for trying as many options as you can but I wouldn't necessarily rush straight for Mr Suttner's telephone number! I hope that helps Alex West

Bill I agree that I do the major lever adjustment before putting the pads on, particularly to get the lever centered over the hole. However, I don't panic too much if I have to make minor adjustments (occasionally necessary to button height) after everything's glued up Alex West

Here's my piece of high-tech eqipment. It's a flat bar with a slot sawed/filed in it to suit the diameter (or depth) of an action lever. The picture shows it fitted round a Lachenal lever in a location to bend up or down and hence raise or lower the pad. The slot in the end can be used to bend the lever left or right to centre the lever over the pad hole. There's another slot on the other end which is a bit narrower. I aim for a button travel of around 3.0 - 3.5mm so I measure the button height, add on 3.0mm and bend the lever with the new pad on the end to se tthe height, then repeat for all other buttons and try to get them all at the same height above the fretwork. Any less and there isn't enough air getting to the reeds, any more and it'll slow the fingers down. All of this is in Dave Elliott's excellent Concertina Maintenance Manual (page 19 with a diagram of the tool and the procedure) and corroborated by discussions with well known makers/repairers. My preference is to have the button close to the fretwork when it's pressed as this is more comfortable and gives a bit more "feel". This isn't always possible, depending on the button dimensions, number of washers under the button, position of the lever pivot between the pad and the button and so on but this is for me what sets the total height above the action plate Alex West

I have this sort of problem regularly when rebuilding bellows and reseating reed pans on old concertinas (sometimes due to warping that I don't want to simply sand away). Look for leaks in any of the gasketted areas where these adjacent chambers connect - around the sides, on top of the chamber walls etc. It doesn't need much of a gap to create this kind of ghosting. Also check the closest reed pan support. Maybe that's slipped a little and has created an air-path? Alex West

Congratulations to you for making the effort to go back to basics. However, I must put in a positive comment about Mark and Concertina Spares. He has been slow in fulfilling some orders due to his health issues - which he's been honest about - but the items I've ordered from him both before and after Christmas have all been sent with a minimum of chasing and met my requirements perfectly. I too make a lot of my own repair and maintenance spares but if you need a good match of a reed, button, lever or whatever for an historic instrument, Mark is one of the first places I'd try and his prices are extremely reasonable. I'd also go to Steve Dickinson if I needed a match for a Wheatstone part (Not sure why he wouldn't have a matching bolt as he does make his own) or if I needed something of superior quality (for example a new reed to match and blend with existing ones) to what might be available from Mark's historic spares. Alex West

Or Paul Read of Toronto, also on this forum Alex West

Thanks for all the responses. Don, the flatness I'm talking about is on the underside of the reed frame whereas the embossing (if one were to do it) would be on the top of the frame, next to the reed. I don't think there's any issue of out of level on the top surface And thanks for you response Dana. I can see how the reed clamp screws would cause the frame to bend across the rwidth of the frame but I'm struggling to see how they would cause the frame to bend along its long dimension. I can visualise that if the slot was punched out, then reamed to create the vent angle, the forces which cause the metal to flow could easily bend the frame (in all sorts of directions!). Still, it's interesting that at least some of the higher quality makers flatten the underside - although from my trials so far, it hasn't fixed the sensation of redundant air rushing through the reed/frame/chamber. I think the reeds fit reasonably well so maybe there's something else happening in my particualr example - it only seems to happen on one or two reeds Alex West

Thanks all for your comments. These particular reeds are off a basic 20 key instrument so it could well be that they haven't had any "after-pressing" attention. I wouldn't have thought I'd need to shim the slots - I'm not touching the sides so the angles of the "wedge" remain the same although the reeds might sit very slightly lower in the slot. These reeds are going into the "spares" box so if I use them in anger, I may have to modify the slot anyway. I'll check the clearances on the particular reed that seems to be passing air, Theo. That's a good observation Alex West

I've been cleaning up some rusted reeds and reed frames and decided to use a file rather than glass fibre pencil to clean up the underside of the frames and remove the rust spots from the clamp screws. I noticed that the frames don't appear to be flat, with a significant dishing towards the root of the reed (on the attached photo where the reed hasn't been cleaned by teh file) . I've noticed in rebuilding that some notes appear to pass a lot of air and am now wondering if this might be the reason - air passing underneath the frame rather than through the reed - and also wonder whether anyone else has seen this? This is a Lachenal reed - I've noticed that Lachenal reed frames tend to be slightly thinner than others but I haven't looked at other makers' reeds flatness to see if the result is the same Alex West

Slight thread drift, but here's one I built myself mostly during the pandemic. This started as a beaten up 39 key duet and is now repurposed as a Jeffries pattern GD anglo. I kept the bulk of the woodwork (but with some extensive repair even to that) and had to make 13 new reeds using existing reed frames or frames from stock but most of what you can see (bellows, fretwork, handrests and straps) is completely new. Still got the fine tuning to do but it's showing some promise! Alex West

It's probably worthy of a different thread but I think John Rodd and John Watcham shared the concertina duties on Son of Morris On and other LPs around that time. John Rodd and Will Duke were both playing concertina in the first iteration of the Albion Dance Band. I played (tuba) with John Rodd in the local band he had in Kingston after leaving the Albion fold and met up with him again when he returned from Canada. I last saw him when he was living in Chiswick in 2006 when I bought his last concertina - a nice CG Jeffries which I still have - but like you Alan, I've lost touch with him since then Alex West

I watched a programme to day about the making of a Bentley Continental GT. They have over £500,000 of veneer in their stock for the dashboards, including some lovely walnut burr. But because they only use the best sections of this stock, there looked to be some handy concertina sized pieces which were left over. I wondered what they did with them and was about to call and offer to take them off their hands but Colin obviously beat me to it! Alex West

You can also find a fairly comprehensive set of chords for the left hand by Barry Metzler in the old magazine "Concertina & Squeezebox" Numbers 14 & 15. You'll need to do a bit of work as the chords are organised for a C/G concertina and your layout may vary - but the work required may help you get around the keyboard and also understand the theory required as well. Let me know if you can't find a copy on line Alex West

I'm signed up as well - just got to find somewhere to stay and hope that the virus lets us go Alex West

Just for badness, I thought I'd let you know that the Lachenal Duet I'm working on at the moment seems to have brass pins! I'm pretty sure that there would be no particular reason why they would have used steel or brass - much like us all, they just used what was convenient (although the brass pins obviously won't rust). And as an aside, the chamber walls are nominally between 1.5 and 1.75mm thick but there are quite a few where the wall has been thinned down - almost to a vanishing point - in order to slide the reeds shoes and clamp screws in. There's usually quite a sound difference between concertinas with a lot of reeds crammed in and those with fewer reeds and more space in the chambers/less wood butchery; I'd always thought that was related to chamber size rather than wall material and thickness but I guess it could be a combination of things Alex West

Adrian I've not seen this on any concertina other than a Jeffries. On my Jeffries Duet, two of the inboard reed locations on the right hand side show no scalloping and none of the perimeter locations (both sides) are scalloped so mine is unlike Gary's. On One of the 39 button Jeffries, the scalloping is with the reed longitude and is fairly crude, on the other, it's at 90 degrees. The 45 key and 50 key anglos and the Jeffries Duet are similarly neat, but inconsistent as to which reeds - both locations and right or left - are scalloped or not. I've looked over Geoff Crabb's paper on suggested explanations - he offers 4 - and they all sound credible but because of the inconsistent nature of the location, orientation and execution, I find it hard to see that there's one logical reason - either for mechanical or acoustic purposes There's got to be a PhD thesis in there somewhere! Alex West

David Here's my review that I did in 2013: "I’ve taken a look at a number of concertinas from different makers including Shakespeare, Crabb, Dipper, Jeffries, Shakespeare and Wheatstone. The sample is small and may not be completely representative; I have no pictures of large Crabbs for example. Only the Jeffries has the scalloping to the woodwork around the underside of the pad-hole and this can occur on the left or right hand and in reed positions around the action including the perimeter reeds as well as the “inner” reeds. The scalloping is in locations where the reed is surface mounted screwed in position as well as in a dovetail-routed slot) and is in locations where the pad is on directly on the face woodwork as well as on top of the action board (where the pad-hole “chamber” is deeper. "This makes it appear as thought the scalloping is somewhat random rather than as part of a well thought out scheme to improve the acoustics. My first thought was that the scallops were to channel the airflow from the pad location to the optimal place on the reed, but the geometry doesn’t support this hypothesis. "In size order, here are the instruments I've seen with scallops 30 key C Jeffries in C/G - scallop to right hand top row little finger - one of the smallest reeds 30 key C Jeffries in F/C - scallop to left hand middle row little finger - lowest "F" 39 key C Jeffries in Bb/F - scallop to left hand thumb drone 39 key C Jeffries in C/G (may have been converted from a Bb/F) - scallops to right hand, 5 locations around the perimeter and inner 39 key C Jeffries in C/G - scallops to left and right hand locations (not the same as the concertina above so no consistency) 45 key C Jeffries in G/D - scallops to left and right hand 50 key C Jeffries in Ab/Eb - scallops to left hand inner and perimeter reeds 50 key Jeffries Bros Duet - scallops to left and right hand inner reeds" So in conclusion, it's not just the larger instruments, it's not just the lowest or the highest reeds and it's not just the surface mounted reeds. The "scalloping" is mostly running vertically, but sometimes is directed towards the root of the reed and sometimes towards the tip and in one concertina the scallop runs at 90 or even 45 degrees to the reed's long axis Alex West