The "english" Style Of Anglo Playing

[Dan Worrall]

Some thoughts on Stephen’s very interesting and useful post…

 

Stephen says: “Having already come across considerable "borrowing" from German sources in early English-language accordion methods, I compared Minasi's work with the only earlier German one that I have, Anweisung das Accordion zu spielen published by the Chemnitz concertina maker Johann Gottlieb Höselbarth in the early 1840's, only to find the exact same arrangement of piece No. 1 (no title) on page 13 of Minasi, as No. 3 "Vor deinen Thron tret ich hiermut" in Höselbarth, and Minasi's No. 2 "God Save the Queen" (which you have cited) is exactly the same as No. 4 "Den König segne Gott" in Höselbarth, which would make you wonder about the sources of some of his other arrangements ...”

 

Well done, and most intriguing! This "english" style of harmonic playing on the anglo seems indeed from Stephen's evidence to root back to Germany, to the early two row Chemnitzer/German/Anglo proto-concertina. Such borrowing was not uncommon in those days; Randy Merris has written about the rampant plagiarism in some early American Anglo tutors (see the Professor McCann duet website for that). I'd be grateful, Stephen, if you could post some of those early German arrangements.

 

Minasi’s other attributes, as Stephen points out, of being a prolific writer and composer argue against him being purely a plagiarizer, however. And I would guess that his full arrangement of “Rule Britannia” would not be a popular tune in a German-language concertina tutor?

 

By the way, not only do we not know exactly when these instruments first arrived in London, as Stephen noted, but we also don’t precisely know the date of the Minasi tutor. Its’ date of acquisition by the British Archive was 1846, but as Randy Merris tells me, the BA sometimes acquired these up to five years after they were published.

 

There are perhaps hundreds of American Chemnitzer players that perhaps should be consulted before we call Siegfried Jugel “possibly the last of the great players of these instruments”! Try the "Too Fat Polka" at the Concertina Café: http://concertina.home.mchsi.com/concertin...rtina_cafe.html. The Chemnitzer, as I understand it, is more frequently played now in the US than in Germany, though I confess I haven't heard much of it here in the Southern US.

.

A further, minor note on Minasi’s “Scotch” tunes:

 

Stephen wrote: "Surely this is an early "Scottish" (as it was then known, and as the name appears in Höselbarth), a type of polka, sometimes called a "Schottische Waltz", fashionable in Germany in the 1840's (and nothing to do with Scotland), a dance craze that is reckoned not to have hit London until the end of that decade."

 

A good thought, and probably right, although Schottisches do have a (tenuous) connection to Scotland. “Scottische” is just the German word for Scottish, and the dance was new about this time. Music sources say that they are “a class of dance tunes originating in nineteenth-century Germany, emulating Scottish music; or the dance for which those tunes are intended as musical accompaniment.” More to the point, Minasi (or Germans like Hoselbarth) saw a use for this instrument in playing for “traditional” dance music. That is a distinction that people in his time would not have made, of course. Schottisches and polkas and reels and such were the popular music and dance of the day.

 

So perhaps “English” style Anglo players should be eating sauerkraut and playing at Oktoberfest? And Wes William’s “EPMS", like the Windsors, might be a German import? Just kidding.....

We have come a long way in this thread in just a few weeks.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Dan Worrall

[Chris Timson]

We have come a long way in this thread in just a few weeks. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. It has been quite an exciting ride. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. I've learned a lot; I think we all have.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Samantha]

... several people have commented on one aspect of my playing that seems to be unusual. Because my musical background allows me to think harmonically I quite often play as a purely harmonic/rhythmic instrument in sessions because I do not know (or cannot yet play) the tune. I don't know any other anglo player who does this. ...

 

Though not a piano player (my first instrument is French Horn) I do this, too, in sessions, or sometimes I make up slow moving obbligatos to harmonise with the tune. I don't want to sit and do nothing, and sometimes want a change from catching snatches of phrases as they come round again.

Samantha

[AlexCJones]

Having said that, several people have commented on one aspect of my playing that seems to be unusual. Because my musical background allows me to think harmonically I quite often play as a purely harmonic/rhythmic instrument in sessions because I do not know (or cannot yet play) the tune. I don't know any other anglo player who does this.

 

I do that most of the time when I play in groups. Usually there are about 8 to 50 guitars, a banjo or two, a fiddle, maybe a bass, and me with a concertina. I just watch the chords on the guitars (I've played guitar on and off for about 25 years, so I recognize the chord shapes) and play them on the concertina. Sometimes they'll let me take a solo.

 

With my Baritone Anglo, I do chords on the right hand, and do a simple alternating root and fifth bass parts on the left hand whenever possible (and if there is not bass).

 

I don't play in any Irish sessions, because for them, I would have to know the tunes.

[Dan Worrall]

All this discussion of the anglo's common roots with the Chemnitzer, as well as Stephen's posting about shared early anglo/Chemnitzer/German concertina prototypes, has me thinking about modern Chemnitzer culture in the US. Anyone interested in seeing how amazingly large and vibrant it is might wish to check these two sites out. The first is for the annual World Concertina Congress in Minnesota, that attracts hundreds of players.

http://www.concertinaclub.com/wcc/index.html

 

The second is the main Chemnitzer website for news, music (hundreds of polka and other dance tunes in sheet music or recordings!), history, etc.

http://www.concertinamusic.com/sbox/wcc.html

 

Both might be worth checking out (czeching out?) for anyone interested in harmonic (English style) playing....there may be stuff to learn from these first cousins.

 

Has anyone on our net been to any of these big Chemnitzer concertina gatherings? I notice that they refer to various anglo sites as references.

[Chris Timson]

Has anyone on our net been to any of these big Chemnitzer concertina gatherings? I notice that they refer to various anglo sites as references.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not as such, (small matter of an ocean in the way) but some years back Steve Litwin (Polka editor of the Polish American Journal) and I had a mutual exchange of music, including recordings that we had made at sessions, in my case of English music and his of Chemnitzer music. We both found it most illuminating. There is much more in common between their polkas and ours than there is between English and Irish polkas. Steve in particular fell in love with Harpers Frolic, and I like to think of it being played in American Chemnitzer sessions today.

 

Chris

Edited July 19, 2005 by Chris Timson

[Dan Worrall]

Just dredging up this thread from last summer to mention that some of the primary references used in that discussion are now available in their entirety on Bob Gaskins' superb website. The topic was started with a question on the origins of the "English" style of playing the anglo (chords left, melody right). Here are some links to the full copies of the works mentioned in that thread.

 

The Carlo Minasi tutor, published in London ca. 1846, shows that the "Englsih" or "harmonic" style of playing the anglo (or better said, its ancestor the two row German concertina) was in use already by that time.

http://www.concertina.com/merris/minasi-german-tutor-1846/

 

The Hoeselbarth tutor, printed in Germany ca. early 1840's, seems to be the earliest tutor, and shows many examples of the "English" style of playing (perhaps better termed the "German" style!). One of these tunes was later 'lifted' by Minasi, as Stephen Chambers pointed out.

http://www.concertina.com/worrall/hoeselbarth-tutor/

 

George Jones published a tutor for the anglo in 1876, and it was continuously reprinted until this last version in 1946. It has a few examples of "English" style playing ("March of the Men of Harlech" and 'Just Before the Battle Mother"), although it is more oriented to simple melodies.

http://www.concertina.com/jones/Jones-Anglo-tutor-1946.pdf

 

Roger Digby's excellent and new "Faking It" set of instructions for chorded accompaniment, earlier published by the ICA, is also here:

http://www.concertina.com/digby/faking/

 

This concertina archive of Bob's is a huge step forward for all of us interested in the concertina, and especially in concertina history.

 

Finally, and back to the topic of the original thread, there can be no better way to see how anglos (or German concertinas) were being played in the mid nineteenth century than to interview a person who played it then. For anyone who has not yet read it, the 2004 PICA journal carried a fascinating interview from 1856 of a young boy who played music on the steamboats in London, on imported German concertinas. His discussion leaves no doubt that he played in a chorded "English"style, like that shown in the tutors of his day: "I like the concertina, because it’s like a full band. It’s like having the fiddle and the harp together."

http://www.concertina.org/pica/HTML-files/mayhew_atlas.htm

 

I hope this is a useful postscript to that fun discussion. It came to mind as I was listening to the superb new "Anglo International" and "Anglophilia" CDs mentioned elsewhere in this Forum.

[Chris Timson]

Roger Digby's excellent and new "Faking It" set of instructions for chorded accompaniment, earlier published by the ICA, is also here:

http://www.concertina.com/digby/faking/

I am really pleased that this has made it onto the Net. I had myself offered to host it on concertina.info if it couldn't find a home elsewhere, because I consider it a particularly good introduction to the style. Anyone who hasn't seen it - take a look.

 

Chris

[Theodore Kloba]

If you would like to hear the fully developed German style performed by a master, I would thoroughly recommend the wonderful album "Erinnerungen" ("Memories") by the Chemnitz concertina and Bandonion player Siegfried Jugel.

...

It was a great joy to meet and hear Siegfried, he makes the large German concertina sound like a Duet, and is possibly the last of the great players of these instruments, having learnt from his father.

I really enjoy Errinerungen and listen to it often. I have worked out transcriptions of Jugel's renditions of "Capri-Fischer" and Toselli's "Serenade." I was sad to learn recently that Mr. Jugel passed away in August, 2005. He was a few weeks away from his 62nd birthday.

 

He was rare in that he played the (64-button) Einheitskonzertina, which was a 1920s attempt at unifying the Chemnitzer Concertina and Bandonion keyboard layouts that didn't really catch on.

 

One reason so few players learn that "duet" style is that most (in the US anyway) are learning from 90-year old tutors that teach left hand chords as fixed block forms and don't even teach reading bass clef. I took up the instrument after a lifetime of classical and pop piano, so the "duet" style seems completely natural, albeit difficult on that instrument.

 

There are perhaps hundreds of American Chemnitzer players that perhaps should be consulted before we call Siegfried Jugel “possibly the last of the great players of these instruments”! Try the "Too Fat Polka" at the Concertina Café.

I've corresponded occasionally with Dan Melander (who performed that take of "Too Fat") and he seems to be quite a nice guy, and I mean him no disrespect when I say that he's not in Jugel's league.

 

There are some American players in Jugel's league. I think Frank Berendt (Jr.) is, although his style is different. I haven't seen Frank perform many times, but he happened to be in Star Concertina's shop on the day (1 April, 2000) I bought my first concertina. That sure inspired me to practice! I've had a hard time finding online examples, but try "Twilight Time" with the Polka All-Stars. Interestingly, Frank's father was also a concertina player.

[Dan Worrall]

I've corresponded occasionally with Dan Melander (who performed that take of "Too Fat") and he seems to be quite a nice guy, and I mean him no disrespect when I say that he's not in Jugel's league.

Okay, Theodore, I'll take your word for it. I still like the Too Fat Polka more however!

[hjcjones]

I missed this thread first time around, but it seems to have resurfaced, so here's my two-pennyworth:

 

I first came to concertina in the 1970s through hearing Tony Rose playing chords to accompany himself singing. He of course played the English, but as I was unaware of the difference and the only thing my music shop had was a (truly horrible) Chinese Anglo, I ended up as an Anglo player.

 

Coming to the concertina from guitar, it was natural for me to play it harmonically. I had some contact with other concertina players (Colin Cater and Richard Plant), and both played in that style. Then I heard the likes of John Watcham and John K which reinforced that. Playing one-note melodies seemed such a waste of the instrument's potential. However the only tutor I could find only covered single-note playing, so I quickly dumped it. It was only much later that I heard Irish-style anglo and realised how effective it can be.

 

I had the William Kimber LP, but at that time few recordings of Scan Tester were widely available, and I don't recall hearing any other truly traditional anglo players. Most of my influences were other revival players.

 

As a guitarist, and with no formal music training, I tend to think of chords in terms of fingering patterns rather than groups of notes, and this seems to transfer naturally to the anglo.

 

Perhaps unusually, I went to melodeon from concertina and not the other way around.

 

I don't see a distinction between what someone has called "English" ie "jerky" and "Anglo duet". I use the jerkiness to emphasise the natural rythm of the music, but I use legato phrases where the jerkiness would go across the rythm. Most of the advanced players I know do the same. Playing a 40-key gives me the option to play jerky or legato as the need arises.

 

I tend to build up a tune around the left-hand chords, adapting the right-hand fingering to find the best combination of fingerings, bellows direction and rythm (I also use this approach on the melodeon). However I also tend to put some harmonies, if not full chords, in the right hand, as well as the tune.

 

As an aside, I find it slightly curious that concertina.net has such an emphasis on Irish music, led particularly by the American contingent, even though judging by their names most have no obvious Irish connections (although I've heard it said that everyone has an Irish grandmother somewhere in their family tree - myself included!). I wonder why this is? OK, Irish music is great, and there's obviously a huge Irish influence in America, but there are also influences from other parts of the world. It's interesting to see the English style starting assert itself more on here.

 

Howard Jones

[Ken_Coles]

I missed this thread first time around, but it seems to have resurfaced, so here's my two-pennyworth:

 

I first came to concertina in the 1970s through hearing Tony Rose playing chords to accompany himself singing. He of course played the English, but as I was unaware of the difference and the only thing my music shop had was a (truly horrible) Chinese Anglo, I ended up as an Anglo player.

 

This is exactly what happened to our founder, Paul Schwarz! (though he started on a Lachenal. See the original buyer's guide, which we will reorganize one of these decades.)

 

As an aside, I find it slightly curious that concertina.net has such an emphasis on Irish music, led particularly by the American contingent, even though judging by their names most have no obvious Irish connections (although I've heard it said that everyone has an Irish grandmother somewhere in their family tree - myself included!). I wonder why this is? OK, Irish music is great, and there's obviously a huge Irish influence in America, but there are also influences from other parts of the world. It's interesting to see the English style starting assert itself more on here.

 

Howard Jones

 

This is (in my view) purely a function of who participates. This was Paul's original focus, but he has always welcomed members of all interests. I started out to play concertina. I went Irish first because that was the only instruction I could find in North America ten years ago. Once in a long while someone comes over to Pinewoods music camp to teach another style, but I couldn't attend back then. It's getting easier now, but I still say the market would absorb more workshops on English style and on English system concertina (two different things).

[Chris Timson]

As an aside, I find it slightly curious that concertina.net has such an emphasis on Irish music,

I can only say that it doesn't seem so to me. While the majority (but by no means all) of the Americans on the board play Irish music, there is a solid representation of Commonwealth players, the majority (but by no means all) of whom don't! Then there's the Europeans ...

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Edited January 21, 2006 by Chris Timson

[Pete Dickey]

As an aside, I find it slightly curious that concertina.net has such an emphasis on Irish music,

I can only say that it doesn't seem so to me. While the majority (but by no means all) of the Americans on the board play Irish music, there is a solid representation of Commonwealth players, the majority (but by no means all) of whom don't! Then there's the Europeans ...

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

 

The sad thing is the gross under-representation on Concertina.net of English Traditional music players in the UK.

 

I put a lot of the blame at the door of that sad excuse for a national broadcaster, the BBC. They seem to have a downer on anything traditional English in favour of any other type of music. Consequently we get lots of Irish music and American styles such as blues music and we recently had to listen to Mike Harding present an hour of folk artists singing Beatles songs. Nothing wrong with the Beatles but don't they get more airtime themselves than the rest of the folk music world combined? Thank goodness for proper folk programs such as Make it folky with Christian Mayne on www.209radio.co.uk

 

Seems such a shame when you hear Irish traditional music every few minutes on such as RTE if you go over there. This puts that kind of music into the minds of the people and as a consequence the number of young players is tremendous. Its as if the BBC don't want to offend anyone from another country living here and feel it is politically correct to ignore our national music. Or perhaps the commercial music business has got such a say on the music to be played that they can dictate what we hear.

 

In view of the above its no wonder that not a lot of our own traditional music is played. (Must get out of my grumpy old man mode before I go to bed or I'll never get to sleep)

[Jody Kruskal]

The sad thing is the gross under-representation on Concertina.net of English Traditional music players in the UK.

 

In view of the above its no wonder that not a lot of our own traditional music is played. (Must get out of my grumpy old man mode before I go to bed or I'll never get to sleep)

 

I hope you didn’t lose too much sleep over this, Pete.

 

I’ve wondered about the same thing. I learned Anglo concertina while dancing and playing with the Greenwich Morris in New York City and about ten? years ago went to the Sidmouth Festival in England accompanying the Half Moon Sword women who were surprising everyone with their energetic rapper and longsword dances. A great tour. It seems that, then at least, all the pubs in Sidmouth had live music, Irish music! Only the Radway was exclusively populated by players of English tunes at their all day and night sessions. What a great marathon session it was at the Radway. I spent most of my free time playing and drinking there.

 

At one point a lovely young lady took out her fiddle and started to play an Irish tune. All thirty of us put down our instruments and listened politely. When she was done, there was a smattering of light applause and then we all started playing Leather away the Wattle, Oh or was it Elsie Marley? She got the message and left soon after. I remember being shocked that there was something sort of subversive about feeling the need to insist on playing English tunes at an English pub during an English festival in England.

 

Jody

[Alan Day]

How things must have changed in a few years Jody.

I too enjoyed many a late night early morning session at the Radway,normally led by Roger Edwards and Martin of the then Garstang Morris men (North West) or Roger Digby and the Flowers and Frollicks band.

Most pubs were playing English music and very few Irish Sessions.Towards the end of my Sidmouth yearly visits, other music sessions were creeping in particularly French/Breton but these were isolated and some led by the groups or artists booked by the Sidmouth Organisers.

It only takes a few dedicated English musicians to walk into a pub and start playing so perhaps the English style players are in decline down there and Irish musicians are on the increase.

Al

[Chris Timson]

I remember being shocked that there was something sort of subversive about feeling the need to insist on playing English tunes at an English pub during an English festival in England.

The English only rule (or to be exact, the anything but Irish rule) came in before my time at the Radway, but was apparently introduced one year in response to a bunch of "Irish" musicians who came in and tried to turn it into the typical Irish monoculture. Prior to that Irish tunes were not unknown, they just did not dominate.

 

My experience is closer to Alan's in that there seems to me to be plenty of English music around at Sidmouth. Plenty of Irish as well, but certainly not in the ascendant.

 

Chris

[hjcjones]

The English only rule (or to be exact, the anything but Irish rule) came in before my time at the Radway, but was apparently introduced one year in response to a bunch of "Irish" musicians who came in and tried to turn it into the typical Irish monoculture.

 

In my experience most "English" sessions, whether at Sidmouth or elsewhere, are pretty tolerant of other types of music. However a lot of Irish sessions (in England) get very shirty if you play anything other than Irish music - "the typical Irish monoculture". Why is this? Is it that they're too far up their own arses to try to pick up a new tune or play along to another style? This mainly seems to apply to English players of Irish music - most of the musicians who actually are Irish don't seem to have this problem. I've never had this in Ireland, in fact I've been invited to play something English in sessions over there.

 

I think most festivals evolve, or actually plan, so that one pub is known for the English session, another for Irish, another for anything-goes, etc. It does make it easier to decide where to go to play, the problems arise when someone comes along who is either ignorant of this or couldn't care less.

 

Howard