Music For Irish Set Dancing

[JoachimDelp]

They say there are no stupid quesions, only stupid answers....

 

I dare to ask :

 

What kind of Music is played for the dancer in an Irish Set Dance ?

 

I do not know it.

 

I play some Reels and Jigds and Hornpipes and Flingds, Polkas and Waltzes,

 

something iof all this is useful for a Iris Set Dance ?

 

Thankls for the attentyion.

 

Joachim

[Bob Tedrow]

good question,

 

Look for CD produced by Olive Hurley. They are recorded specifically for dancers and are comprised of traditional jigs reels hornpipes etc. They are just great for learning as many of the tunes are session tunes played cleanly and succinctly for dancers.

 

My wife Klari and I play for our daughters step dance crowd on occasion. Klari plays concertina, I play rhythm guitar.

 

 

As a matter of fact, Klari and I just played for a reception honoring Frank McCourt, author of "Angela's Ashes" He was in Birmingham for a conference this weekend.

 

We played "Irish lounge music"

Edited February 23, 2004 by Bob Tedrow

[Daniel Bradbury]

The is a wonderul CD "Strings for the Sets" made by Billy Furlong on fiddle with piano backup. Billy is well known on the Feis circuit in Florida. His recordings are really clear and easy to learn from. He sells them at the Feis, and I can try to get an address where you could order them, if anyone is interested.

 

Dan

[Sharron]

Music for the sets....blue and a yellow book plus cds to go along with them.

They are arranged in sets for dancers and played on a variety of instruments.

They have all the differenct dances in there.

 

Available from http://www.mally.com

 

Sharron

[JimLucas]

What kind of Music is played for the dancer in an Irish Set Dance ?

I'm familiar with four different categories of Irish dance (plus a few things that don't fit any of the four categories, like "Irish Morris"). Two of them, very different, are both known as "Set Dances".

 

Step dance: This is the showoff stuff with the fancy footwork that is meant to be appreciated visually, or fancy percussive rhythms. There are basically two subdivisions, 1) the highly refined stuff that's intended for competitions and stage displays, and 2) older "village" styles that often resemble American clogging or "buck and wing". I'd say the latter form is generally used to show off for one's friends, rather than for judges or a massed audience, and I'm told it's experiencing a revival.

 

Ceili Dances: These include choreographed group dances in various formations done on social occasions. Generally simple or easy to learn, they've also generally been around for many generations. Some -- e.g., "Haymaker's Jig" (much like a Virginia Reel) -- can be done to any tune of the right rhythm. Others -- e.g., "Suites of May" -- are normally done to a particular tune or sequence of tunes. I also think of Kerry slides, mazurkas, and free-form polkas, waltzes, and the like as being "ceili" dances, though others might classify them differently.

 

Set Dances or Long Dances: These are particular choreographies to particular tunes, usually tunes with parts that have more measures than the 8-16-32 section lengths of standard dance tunes, hence the "long". I think these are generally considered performance dances, and I don't know that they're seen much these days.

 

Set Dances or Sets: These are social dances where dancers form into four-couple "sets", like American square dances. These are fixed choreographies where each set is independent of the others, but each set does the same thing. Each particular Set Dance is composed of several sections, and each section is done to a specific kind of tune -- reel, jig, polka, hornpipe, -- but the particular tune doesn't matter, as long as it's the right type. It's popular among some groups to add "battering" -- rhythmic stomping with the toes and heels while moving in the figures -- but it's very different from the rhythms of "hard shoe" step dancing, and it's not compulsory.

 

I could go into more detail about the structure of these dances, but the question was about tunes. I'm pretty sure that the "Set Dances" Joachim is referring to are the "Sets", not the "Long Dances", and almost certainly not step dancing. There are some recordings made specifically for particular set dances, since some groups use the recordings for teaching, or even for actual dances if they don't have local musicians. These recordings will have just the right number of bars of the right kind of tune for each section of each particular dance. If you learn those tunes, you'll be fine, but you should be able to substitute any polka, etc. for one on the recording without anyone complaining.

 

The main thing is to build up a good repertoire of jigs, reels, hornpipes, and polkas, be able to play them at whatever speed the dancers demand, and be able to watch them and stop playing when they stop dancing (to end a particular section), even if you're in the "wrong" part of the tune. I don't think you'll ever be called upon for a slip jig (though they're wonderful tunes) or even a waltz in an actual set dance.

[Sandy Winters]

Playing for Irish "step" dancers is not the same thing as playing Irish "set dances". Set dances are a specific type of dance form. Usually they have the standard AABB form, but the B parts are usually 12 measures instead of 8. O'Neill's Music of Ireland has a separate category for Set Dances. Check 'em out.

 

As for accompanying 'step' dancers, just about any well played (rhythmically) reel, jig, hornpipe, etc., will usually suffice.

 

***Good work Jim, ya beat me to the punch, and with much more detailed info.

Edited February 22, 2004 by Sandy Winters

[JoachimDelp]

Thans to all of you.

The information is really helpful to me and calms me down a bit.

 

To explain : There are people in Germany (Franklfurt) who organize set dances each MOnday (in a Clinic, part of an Univeristy)

Have never seen them, do not how, what.

There are two Twin Whistle palyers and one guitar and I am told occasional aslo an Irish Violine POlayer.

They have contacted me for playing with them on my Concertina

 

So I wondered if the few Jigs and Reels and Hornpipes as well as Polkas and Waltzes could serve.

 

As I can read here : Most of the Tunes I have learned, could serve, but speed and rythm for a slgihtly advanced baginner as me ?

 

Anyway I think I shall tgry it and if not the must wait until I have learned or find a better one, what might not be so easy in Germany.

 

Bob, can you tellk me where to get the CD you recommend ? To avoid me long research, which is not easy for me.

 

Dan, If you could find the information where to get the Music you are menitonning, would be great.

 

Sharron, I'l,l check your info.

 

Jim, as so often you are probably right. The matter should be to make music for Set Dancers or sets. I know that in Germany are relatively popular the Amercina Square DAnciong.

 

You say that there are specific recordings. As far as I have been informed the Musiucians actually have still a limited repertoire. Such Recordings migjht be very well come.

Can you fiund out and tell me where tio get such recordings ?

 

Sandy, I 'll check O'Meills Music in IOreland.

Neverttyheless, I would like to avoid to say it I have a low sight problem. And research cost me a bit. Do you have the complete addres ?, Jim could this be the place where to find the specific Set REcordings ?

 

Kind Regards to all. Great thing the Forum !!!

Joachim

[JimLucas]

They have contacted me for playing with them on my Concertina

 

As I can read here : Most of the Tunes I have learned, could serve, but speed and rythm for a slgihtly advanced baginner as me ?

Joachim, if you're going to be playing with other people, then you need to learn to play the tunes they already play, and the best thing is to learn from them. That way you can be sure to be playing the same notes (not another variation or tune with the same name) at the same tempo. When you're playing for the dancers, you'll have to be playing together.

 

For balance, play for them some of the tunes you know, and if they feel they'll fit, you teach them. Then you can consider learning things from recordings and sharing them.

 

I understand what you say about researching recordings. There's too much for me get through quickly, so I'll do something else and get back to that. I think you'll have plenty to start with, though, if you and the other musicians share tunes among you.

[ldpaulson]

Joachim:

 

I think the best thing to do when you are asked to play in any session (unless you're going just once as an invited guest or have organized it yourself) is to go and watch one or two sessions before you begin playing with the group. I know I did this and felt more comfortable.

 

The Celtic ceili group I have played with is an open session, but also offers a book of its sets to players when they determine they are serious about attending regularly. The fee covers the cost of copying. If you play from ear, then there's no need to have anything other than the set lists. You still must know what key the tunes are played in and any anomolies. Certain songs are arranged. Nothing complex. When playing "The Butterfly," for example, it's solo flute the first time through. It was helpful to keep a pencil handy for making notes. A recorder would also be handy.

 

This particular group I have played with plays for dancers. (Yes, this is a pub session and there's barely enough room for dancing.) It often serves as a practice for them. As noted, competitive dancers have strict tempos for each type of dance. And the musicians abide by those.

 

If they have a rehearsal, that would be a good time to ask all the questions you have of the group.

 

As Jim noted, between yourself and the other players, you should have plenty of material to learn. Good sources for Celtic tunes -- in our area, we live and die by "The Fiddler's Fakebook." There are a few tunes that aren't transcribed like they are played locally. I'm sure that's true wherever you go. This book is used by the Celtic, bluegrass, contradance, and old-time musicians in our region. It is indispensible. O'Neill's is certainly another good book. You might also want to look at The Waltz Book, which I understand is now in three volumes. It has many waltzes and airs such as "Southwind" and the O'Carolan tunes. Back to another thread, but Jay Ungar's "Wizard's Walk" is a favorite session ender.

 

Some sessions have their tune books up online, but there are lots of caveats that go along with that. It is a good way to get ideas about putting sets together. Again, constructing sets boils down to who knows what and how comfortable people are with learning new tunes. You might not want to introduce a three-tune set with no songs in common, for example. Group one new tune with one or two others people are comfortable playing.

 

But this is much more information than you asked for. And some of these issues may never come up in your group, depending on its structure.

 

Have fun!

[JimLucas]

I think the best thing to do when you are asked to play in any session ... is to go and watch one or two sessions before you begin playing with the group.

LD, I might be wrong -- and if so, I apologize, -- but I think the situation Joachim is describing is quite different from an open jam session.

 

As I understood him, it's a group who get together specifically to learn and dance (and possibly perform?) "Sets" -- not solo step dancing, but the Irish equivalent of square dances, with 8 dancers per set and possibly multiple sets. The musicians' only purpose -- at least in the context where they've invited Joachim to join them -- is to play the music the dancers need, when they are dancing.

 

If they're working on learning a particular dance, this could mean frequent starts, stops, and do-it-overs. While they'll want to learn tunes, it's not so they can sit around playing tunes in a social atmosphere with other musicians (they might well do that elsewhere), it's so they can support the dancers. It's not that Joachim is thinking of sitting in on their friendly session, rather that they have asked him to assist them in performing a task, albeit one we all hope is enjoyable.

 

Your own sessions sound radically different from what I'm used to, but that's a very different topic, which I'll leave for another time.

Edited February 22, 2004 by JimLucas

[JoachimDelp]

Thanks, once more, from heart for all your good advice. They are all useful to me.

But you have given me so much information and advioce that I must digest it and think over.

It sounds all ressonable to me, and naturally some of the ideas I had in mind myself.

It is clear to me that I shall learn from the other musicians.

The situation is most prtobably theone Jim Lucas has understood, but for the moment I am not totally sure, since I still have not met the other musicians.

 

As it seems to me you might be interested in reading what I can tell you once made the first experiences. And so I promis to do.

 

I have learned with you. Thanks.

Regards

Joachim

[richard]

Hello

 

If you would be interested in a REALLY exciting and lovely recording of music

for set dancing try the recently released Tipsy House recording (featuring wonderful Anglo concertina player Jack Gilder). It is called "SETS IN THE CITY"It was created with the San Francisco set dancing group in mind and with their support.

 

Here is a link.

 

 

http://www.tipsyhouse.com/t_recordings.html

 

Richard

[ldpaulson]

LD, I might be wrong -- and if so, I apologize, -- but I think the situation Joachim is describing is quite different from an open jam session.

 

I apologize if there was confusion about my description. What I am describing is NOT a jam, but an open session/seisun. This group does play in a pub and plays for both solo step dancers and set dancing, more for solo/group dancers. So, the group, as you describe, plays the music the dancers need. The players typically don't call the tunes.

 

In fact, this session is run by a parent/guitar player. This way his daughter has a place to both play her instrument and practice her dancing.

 

I still think it is good practice when asked to join ANY group, to sit out for the first meeting/rehearsal or two rather than jumping in blindly. You have to know what the group is doing, observe the group dynamic, and you can't do that if you are concentrating on playing.

 

ldp

[JimLucas]

What I am describing is NOT a jam, but an open session/seisun.

Terminology dissonance? To me a "session" is a "jam", both being short for "jam session"... a group of musicians playing music together for the enjoyment of it, without any formal structure or program. And then it's been turned into an Irish word as "sesiun".

 

But I guess the main difference in Joachim's case is that it sounds as if the group he may be joining is closed, not open, but they have asked him to join them. (Sort of like they're hiring him, but for no money?)

 

I still think it is good practice when asked to join ANY group, to sit out for the first meeting/rehearsal or two rather than jumping in blindly.

Good advice in general, but because of the nature of this group, I assume they will carefully introduce Joachim to what they're doing and ease him in at whatever pace seems to work.

 

The session you describe, by the way, sounds unusual but great!

[ldpaulson]

Terminology dissonance? To me a "session" is a "jam", both being short for "jam session"... a group of musicians playing music together for the enjoyment of it, without any formal structure or program. And then it's been turned into an Irish word as "sesiun".

 

Perhaps that is it. And perhaps the semi-formal nature of this group -- there is a leader and the sets are structured -- adds to the confusion here. I'm not confused, because this is my home session! (It's not that close and I miss going regularly.)

 

One of the funniest things that happened is someone asked if he could play pipes with the group. So, sure. He pulls out FIELD PIPES! He is given an opportunity mid-way through to play three tunes. With the acoustics, it was deafening.

 

But perhaps all of this is fodder for another thread. I suppose I should be brave and start one!

 

ldp

[tomlaw90]

To heap one more bit of advice on the pile If you want to play for dancers, be sure to learn a bit of the dancing yourself. It really helps answer questions like "why do they always want it that way?"

[JimLucas]

He pulls out FIELD PIPES! He is given an opportunity mid-way through to play three tunes. With the acoustics, it was deafening.

 

But perhaps all of this is fodder for another thread. I suppose I should be brave and start one!

Start a thread for it, and I'll join in.

 

I thought I had already told my story here about the 3 pipers plus at a pub session, but I don't find it in a search.

[JoachimDelp]

Once more thanks to you all.

 

For whom it interests, this Group has a Web Address :

 

http://home.t-online.de/home/irish-set-dan...cers-frankfurt/. Builing the new page actua.lly and the olde one also in Engliush lANGUAGE.

 

It is not an open session. It is a regular meeting of dancers and a group of Musicians is making the music for the dancers.

 

Tehy are actually searching for a Concetina or Melodeon Player.

 

I wish to try it. Certainly no money

 

My impression is that it wil be relatively formal, German.

 

From what I have learned here, I dpoubt that I will be able to perform well enough.

 

Accepting several advices, I shall go and loo and listen and dance

 

Will take my wife with me if wants to come and some of my numeropius daughters and one or the other friend of the girls.

 

Will try to be discrete and record some music.

 

Will by one or the of the recommended CDs and the Blue and Yello Nook Sharron recommends.

 

And Iif I feel, I shall show my Concertina and if they ask I night play the best I can.

 

And if there is interest for I may report about the experience.

 

Thanks and Bye

Joachim