Is It Worth It? Advice, Please

[Mikefule]

OK, so a couple of weeks ago, I was writing about possibly getting an English. I liked the idea of the fully chromatic layout, with no bias towards a "home key". I was thinking in terms of possibly spending a few hundred pounds.

 

Three things have happened:

 

1) I've had the opportunity to listen properly to a couple of concertinas played well. Never mind the technical details, but I was more inspired by the sound of the anglo. It's a personal thing, but after hearing the anglo, I thought, "that sounds good", and after hearing the Englsih, I thought, "nice, but I don't think it's for me." On that basis, if I buy a concertina at all, it will be an anglo.

 

2) My motorbike has been stolen and trashed which means I will be a few hundred pounds down on the policy excess, cost of new locks etc.

 

3) A long term problem with my car has finally been identified: it is apparently caused by me having £650 too much in my bank account. The garage has agreed to remove this in the hope that the problem will be cured.

 

Looks like I won't be spending hundreds of pounds on a concertina any time soon.

 

And if I've read correctly, anglos are generally more expensive than Englishes anyway.

 

So my only options are either:

1) Give up on the concertina idea.

2) Buy a cheap one.

 

And then I read so much bad press about cheap ones (I'm talking about £200 or so max, now) that I wonder if I wouldn't be better off without one at all.

 

OK, so concertinists are famous for saying that nothing less than a gold plated Wheatstone will do, but if we can set aside what we'd really like and be honest: would it be worthwhile at all to buy a £200 anglo, or would it be no more than a crude clunky unmusical toy that fell apart within a few weeks?

[m3838]

Looks like you have to memorize the name "Rochelle".

[Marcus]

The Rochelle is supposed to be pretty good. I did a workshop with John Dipper at the Sidmouth festival and we used the Jackie english and it seemed to be better than most cheaper concertinas.

[Dave Prebble]

2) My motorbike has been stolen and trashed which means I will be a few hundred pounds down on the policy excess, cost of new locks etc.

 

3) A long term problem with my car has finally been identified: it is apparently caused by me having £650 too much in my bank account. The garage has agreed to remove this in the hope that the problem will be cured.

 

Looks like I won't be spending hundreds of pounds on a concertina any time soon.

 

And if I've read correctly, anglos are generally more expensive than Englishes anyway.

 

Sorry to hear of your run of bad luck.

 

Be advised though, once you get hooked on the concertina habit, it will empty your pockets faster than cars or motorbike combined

 

you certainly seem to be displaying all the classic early symptoms.

 

It would seem that a Rochelle might settle the matter for you - one way or the other

 

Regards

 

Dave

[Theo]

Oh, and listen to some recordings of Alistair Anderson before you completely dismiss the English concertina

[Chris Timson]

Oh, and listen to some recordings of Alistair Anderson before you completely dismiss the English concertina

We saw Ali Anderson just last night in concert with his band of young musicians from the Newcastle degree course, as it happens. A truly inspirational player and well worth hearing. Mind you I'm not tempted away from my beloved anglos.

 

I've always said that a person's choice between English and anglo (and duet, or any other musical instrument for that matter) is not fully rational, but is informed by personal reaction to the sound and feel of the instrument. It sounds like Mikefule is beginning to find that for himself. I also agree with the pointers in the direction of the Rochelle and Jackie concertinas. Of course they are beginner instruments, but they will get you fairly started for a relatively moderate price.

 

Chris

[Tom C]

And then I read so much bad press about cheap ones (I'm talking about £200 or so max, now) that I wonder if I wouldn't be better off without one at all.

 

Don't give up on the English - its can have a really punchy sound as well - see the video here which I made of a friend of mine.

 

http://www.southcoastsounds.org.uk/videoclips/rounding.mp4

 

Then perhaps the Jackie is a good starting point - I certainly found it so. I could send you a soundfile of what it sounds like if you like - sure after a while you'll want something better but by then the Jackie will have enabled you to achieve a good standard of playing.

 

Tom

[richard]

Hello

 

Just to set the record straight. I have never heard the notion that concertina players are only satisfied with a "gold plated Wheatstone".

 

Perhaps concertina players over time learn to appreciate the qualities of a great instrument. But over time also all concertina players started somewhere with something and usually it was the kind of instrument you are considering as your first.

 

Good luck,

 

Richard

[david_boveri]

i play anglo, but here's a great video of an english player.

 

the thing about the anglo is that it forces you to develop lift and bounciness. simon's video shows how much lift can be played on an english if you put your mind to it.

 

one thing i can never understand is why english players just pull for a while and then push for a while. i dont think that english players should push and pull like anglo players, but what about fiddle players, or flute players? fiddle players change bow direction for rhythm as well as many flute players articulating for phrasing. is it just that video's ive seen never do this, or is this not a customary practice on the english?

[jon melville]

David, as with fiddle, it's not always necessary to change direction with the squeeze/bow to get phrasing. While it appears when watching an English that the bellows move smoothly in and out, the phrasing comes from varying the amount of pressure. This means an English can play bouncy simple scale runs faster than an Anglo since there is less momentum lost from the bellows action.

 

By the way, Mike, sounds like you've had your share of visits from the bad-luck fairy for the time being. Hope things sort themselves out.

[David Barnert]

fiddle players change bow direction for rhythm as well as many flute players articulating for phrasing. is it just that video's ive seen never do this, or is this not a customary practice on the english?

It's not common, but not unheard of. George Marshall, EC player for Wild Asparagus and Swallowtail (contradance bands in western Massachusetts) has a technique he calls "bellows shuffle" where he imitates a fiddle bow shuffle in a quarter note/eighth note/eighth note/quarter note/eighth note/eighth note pattern (oom chucka, oom chucka).

[Chris Timson]

This means an English can play bouncy simple scale runs faster than an Anglo since there is less momentum lost from the bellows action.

Well, I'm not absolutely convinced about that, but I'm not going to argue. Certainly bellows control can make an English come alive - Rob Harbron is a very nice example of such a player. I do think it's a shame how few EC players bother, though.

 

Chris

[Mikefule]

In 25 years on or just inside the fringes of the folk scene, I've only come across a few decent concertinists. Generally, the melodeons hold the floor in Morris sessions.

 

But when I have heard them played:

 

An English always looks annd sounds like the tune is in there and the player is using the buttons to release it in a controlled manner.

 

An anglo always looks and sounds like the player is wringing the music out of it.

 

Nether of those descriptions is intended to be critical or derogatory.

 

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here skint, listening to Brendan Power thinking I could pay for my car repairs by putting all my harmonicas on eBay and giving up pretending to be a musician forever.

[ragtimer]

In 25 years on or just inside the fringes of the folk scene, I've only come across a few decent concertinists. Generally, the melodeons hold the floor in Morris sessions.

Well, melodeons have that multi-reeded sweet solid tone, that's hard to compete with. Even tho an Anglo can maybe play a few more "black" notes.

But when I have heard them played:

 

An English always looks and sounds like the tune is in there and the player is using the buttons to release it in a controlled manner.

 

An anglo always looks and sounds like the player is wringing the music out of it.

Nether of those descriptions is intended to be critical or derogatory.

Very aptly put! I hope we all take these with a sense of humor

 

I'm wondering what you would think of us few Duet players (any system). Maybe more like the English, since we also get the same note pushing or pulling. But when I think of how I sometimes struggle to position fingers of both hands to get the right melody, bass, and harmony notes, I often feel more like I'm wringing the bloody neck of the beast to get the tune out!

 

But when it's an easy tune I know well and I can just relax, I feel like the tune wants to come out and I'm letting it out, in a freely flowing manner. Now to get back to practicing and upping the number of such tunes

--Mike K.

[DavidFR]

In 25 years on or just inside the fringes of the folk scene, I've only come across a few decent concertinists. Generally, the melodeons hold the floor in Morris sessions.

 

But when I have heard them played:

 

An English always looks annd sounds like the tune is in there and the player is using the buttons to release it in a controlled manner.

 

An anglo always looks and sounds like the player is wringing the music out of it.

 

Nether of those descriptions is intended to be critical or derogatory.

 

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here skint, listening to Brendan Power thinking I could pay for my car repairs by putting all my harmonicas on eBay and giving up pretending to be a musician forever.

Mike,

 

Sounds like you're a morris player. I play my anglo for morris (and other things) so am a little biased in its favor, however, I also play with an outstanding English concertinist who can play with anglo bounce and lift or violin-smoothness as she pleases. You can really learn to do what you want with either instrument. What's more important, I think, are the "logic" differences between the instruments - I find English kind of weird, while many can't get a handle on Anglo layouts. Don't just listen but try each if you can. When you decide what you like, then you are fortunate in that there are solid entry-level options in the Rochelle (Anglo) and Jackie (English) which by all accounts are reasonable instruments which maintain their value.

 

Good luck,

David

[Mikefule]

By the way, Mike, sounds like you've had your share of visits from the bad-luck fairy for the time being. Hope things sort themselves out.

 

Gosh, Jon, I've finally seen through your elaborate disguise and recognised who is posting behind that subtle screen name.

 

Bike may be repairable, but not until late January.

 

Am currently struggling with a cheap melodeon I half regret buying because it's so clunky and the air button is in the wrong place. Hence my concerns about buying a cheap concertina.

 

I also have Ian Stewart's English and am making slow but steady progress. I had a very quick go on Keith Kendrick's English and Anglo last week. Beautiful instruments just to hold and admire, never mind play.

[m3838]

I find either layout to be ingenious. Same for Duets.

I don't find the idea of single reed sound as ingenious, there was a reason they added second voice.

I came to grips with Anglo and English easily. Now it's the matter of practice.

For practical purposes, if you just want to play many kinds of music and forget the hassle of key signatures in what little spare time you have - go for the English. Sure, there is more bounce in the Anglo etc., but practically, how important is it to you compared to not being startled every time you hear the word "key".

But (a big one) if you play mostly in some style (Irish, English, French, whatever) and don't plan to vear off this road, or have other instruments for other styles, and like the bounce of AC and it's easiness in few keys - another story.

Other words - do you want to play 'music' or do you need particular application?

Me - I started on two row accordoin, liked it alot, then got frustrated with the limitations, took up CBA, got frustrated with the size and weight, went to AC, got frustrated with the limitations and now practice EC. EC's limitations so far working in my favor (I can't overdo Oom-pah, have to pay attention to rhythm, accentuation, bellows control, dynamics, phrazing) - lots of work, that was omitted with the AC or Button box.

As beginner's instruments go - my Jack is way below me now, in only a month or two. It doesn't allow for much dynamic range, reeds are chocking on high pressure, growl on low, the voice is...mm, compromized. So it's good beginner's instrument, but Beethoven's Romance sounds funny.

"Oifn Pripecheck", on the other hand, sounds solid.

I think 5 years of CBA let me jump forward, as I have enough dexterity in my fingers to start playing in 4 part harmony style almost right away.

I still keep my Hohner for folk music in easy keys, still have my Club for Chromatic playing in easy keys, but practice moslty in my car during lunch break, so my EC is getting a workout, while accordions gather dust

Hope this may help you with the choice.

[Woody]

....What's more important, I think, are the "logic" differences between the instruments - I find English kind of weird, while many can't get a handle on Anglo layouts. Don't just listen but try each if you can....

For me this was important - I picked up an Anglo, saw how it worked and was hooked. The in/out bellows action moving between notes is obviously the only way you would want to design such an instrument. I have however since met several misguided souls who say it makes no sense at all to them, though somehow they get music out of the bizarre arrangement of buttons and very tiny wrist-strap that is an English. (and don't get me started on Duets ).

 

 

In 25 years on or just inside the fringes of the folk scene, I've only come across a few decent concertinists.

I have to say my experience in 18 months of playing is the opposite. Every single Concertinaist I've met (except obviously beginners like myself) has been of a good standard - certainly a better batting average than the Melodeon players I've encountered over the same period of time

Edited December 19, 2006 by Woody