How far does "Best instrument you can afford" really stretch?

[Eugenides]

Hello, all. I've been scouring the forums for some time now looking at instruments and trying to figure out where I'd like to start. 

 

The consistent advice I see is to get the best instrument you can afford. My problem is that I feel like I'm in a range where it's very difficult to gauge what best is, because I'm willing to pick up something on the high end of the intermediate range. So I come to you, in the interest of garnering advice, based on anecdotes and experience. 

 

Options I'm looking at: 

 

1. A vintage lachenal. Described as nothing fancy, but it's been gone over and plays well. Still waiting for more details from the vendor, but it's one of the cheaper options I've found. It sounds like a good option, I trust the vendor, but I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to know what an older but cheap lachenal might bring to the table. Advice for what to look out for much appreciated.

 

2. I'm very interested in the AP James intermediate concertinas. They honestly seem like a very good deal, but there's not much discussion about them. Technically the cheapest "good" option I've found, at 1200 GBP. Can anyone chime in about why these seem so much cheaper than competitors? They look beautiful and seem ridiculously cheap for what they offer. What's the catch?

 

3. If I wait patiently for a bit longer, I'd be able to afford something like a Marcus or a Harmon. These are on the upper end of pricing, and I'm not sure if it's actually worth spending that much more than some of the cheaper options to get one of these. On the other hand, this could be a one and done, no upgrade needed. Anyone who can chime in with things they have to say about these makes I would greatly appreciate. Especially would love constructive criticism.

 

4. Once you start factoring in things like a Harmon, you're in the range where you could consider buying a nicer vintage instrument that's used and maybe not as ornamented as the top of the line ones. But at this point you're moving into more than doubling some of the other options I'm considering. Is this just too far down the slippery slope? Is this actually a better option than a nicely made hybrid? 

 

I'm particularly interested in being talked into or out of just getting a pretty nice instrument and not needing to deal with the quirks of a student or poorer quality instrument. Because once you're spending $1800, adding only a few hundred more to not have to worry about the future might make sense. But maybe those features really don't matter. Would you advise a brand new player to go for a modest option right out the gate, just enough to not be getting a cheap model that will just frustrate, before jumping into higher quality models? Or does the advice of as nice as you can afford scale that far?

 

Thanks in advance for reading my massive amount of overthinking. Any and all advice is accepted with gratitude!

 

 

[arti]

Something to start you off:

1. A smaller business may well be VAT free (sales tax). Savings could be 20% 

2. Fashion drives price.

3. Diminishing returns - Pro photographers used to swear by Nikon. If you dropped one it bounced - not a quality important to all of us.

4.  I've never played a 'hybrid' concertina but I feel it is a bit harsh to talk of them as "So-called."

5. Some sellers expect lower margins - don't rush in.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

As someone who owns a concertina of playable but not super expensive variety. (!Hohner branded, Stagi Italian made .. bought in 1999).. I cannot vouch for other kinds. I also think that it is also the musician who can bring out the best in any instrument, not only the desired ideal names of the box itself.

Once I could also hae afforded the very top price range myself, for a limited period; and considered it carefully, but stuck with what I knew best.. as I did not feel I could justify the cost. But if you can then go for it; Also I have never liked the idea of their being say 'student' level or beginner models, as a label applied. You will have to decide what is best  for you.

[Steve Schulteis]

I can't speak to the specific models you mentioned, but dynamic range is something to pay attention to. The desire to play more softly (without giving up much too maximum volume) was one of the major factors that led me to buy a different concertina. Other improvements were present and noticeable, but not as essential to me.

[Eugenides]

4 hours ago, arti said:

Something to start you off:

1. A smaller business may well be VAT free (sales tax). Savings could be 20% 

2. Fashion drives price.

3. Diminishing returns - Pro photographers used to swear by Nikon. If you dropped one it bounced - not a quality important to all of us.

4.  I've never played a 'hybrid' concertina but I feel it is a bit harsh to talk of them as "So-called."

5. Some sellers expect lower margins - don't rush in.

Appreciate the feedback! I hadn't considered VAT, to be honest, I didn't really think most of the options were big enough to trip it. I guess I'd see it with a few of the larger businesses. 

 

The diminishing returns aspect is exactly what I'm looking for advice on, honestly. A lot of people on these forums talk about cheaper or poorly made instruments, I was hoping for more concrete details based on years of playing. Things you found that do or don't matter. Afraid your 4th point has lost me, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, there.

[Eugenides]

42 minutes ago, Steve Schulteis said:

I can't speak to the specific models you mentioned, but dynamic range is something to pay attention to. The desire to play more softly (without giving up much too maximum volume) was one of the major factors that led me to buy a different concertina. Other improvements were present and noticeable, but not as essential to me.

Dynamic range is an excellent point that I hadn't considered, I'll definitely add that to the list of things I consider!

[Richard Mellish]

  Are you able to visit somewhere where you can try out various concertinas - either a dealer or a meeting of players?

[Clive Thorne]

To me, and generally speaking, there is a distinct difference in sound between Accordion reeded instruments (Hybrids) and traditionally reeded instuments.  Far more difference, for example, than between a low end and a high end traditional reeded instrument (again IMHO).  Which is better is completely a matter of individual taste. I prefer the traditional reed sound, others will prefer the Hybrid sound (And price!).

 

The only real answer is to try out as many as you can across the whole range.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Clive Thorne

[Eugenides]

19 minutes ago, Richard Mellish said:

  Are you able to visit somewhere where you can try out various concertinas - either a dealer or a meeting of players?

Alas, not really. I live in the rural PNW, I'm quite far from most major population centers, going would be an overnight trip usually. I've looked around and I don't see any people in my area that play. Costs of living in a sparsely populated area. 

[Roger Hare]

I get the impression that you are operating in a different (higher) price range to that in which the usual caveats/criteria/warnings about buying the 'best instrument you can afford' apply?

 

All the instruments you mention in your OP look as if they are 'good' choices. It becomes a question of choosing between several 'good' options, any or all of which might fit the bill.

 

I have both a Marcus, and vintage Lachenals in my small collection, and all have their own desirable characteristics  and strengths. Maybe, given that you seem to be operating in that higher price range, you should be prioritising your 'needs' rather than being overly concerned about the thickness of the wad in your wallet?

 

Which is no help at all, of course - it just presents you with a different problem...🙁

Edited September 12, 2023 by lachenal74693

[Eugenides]

26 minutes ago, lachenal74693 said:

I get the impression that you are operating in a different (higher) price range to that in which the usual caveats/criteria/warnings about buying the 'best instrument you can afford' apply?

 

All the instruments you mention in your OP look as if they are 'good' choices. It becomes a question of choosing between several 'good' options, any or all of which might fit the bill.

 

I have both a Marcus, and vintage Lachenals in my small collection, and all have their own desirable characteristics  and strengths. Maybe, given that you seem to be operating in that higher price range, you should be prioritising your 'needs' rather than being overly concerned about the thickness of the wad in your wallet?

 

Which is no help at all, of course - it just presents you with a different problem...🙁

I appreciate the feedback. I do think you might be right, that I'm looking outside of the normal beginner range, for one reason or another.

 

That being said, I'm not sure I can fix the needs I have. What I'm looking for is a well constructed instrument that I enjoy the sound of and don't find myself fighting it--I'll be fighting my own playing skill enough as it is! 

 

Since you explicitly have a couple of the instruments I'm looking at, in your opinion, what are the explicit strengths and weaknesses of each of those?

[AndyNT]

I own and play both a vintage Lachenal and a AC Norman (both G/D). Anthony James learnt his skills working for Andrew Norman and his anglo concertinas are quite similar.

 

Playing at home, I prefer the tone of the Lachenal, particularly at the very low end where the accordion reeds of the Norman can start sound more 'harsh'. However for morris and in sessions,  I will play the Norman. It is more responsive, definitely louder and generally feels more robust and positive. (One is 90+ years older than the other!) 

 

My personal view is that a 30 key Lachenal would be a great instrument to start with. They have a nice sound and will hold their value. And I would buy from a dealer such as Barleycorn, rather than privately as you then know the instrument will be in good shape and arrive with some form of warranty.

 

And then as you progress on your concertina, you will decide what you want next! 

 

 

[Eugenides]

12 minutes ago, AndyNT said:

 

My personal view is that a 30 key Lachenal would be a great instrument to start with. They have a nice sound and will hold their value. And I would buy from a dealer such as Barleycorn, rather than privately as you then know the instrument will be in good shape and arrive with some form of warranty.

 

 

 

Well, that's convenient, Barleycorn is the vendor I was talking to. Thank you so much for your input!

[Roger Hare]

1 hour ago, Eugenides said:

...That being said, I'm not sure I can fix the needs I have. What I'm looking for is a well constructed instrument that I enjoy the sound of and don't find myself fighting it--I'll be fighting my own playing skill enough as it is! 

 

Since you explicitly have a couple of the instruments I'm looking at, in your opinion, what are the explicit strengths and weaknesses of each of those?

I think you just listed 'em: well constructed, enjoy the sound, don't find myself fighting...

 

As far as the vintage instruments are concerned, it's a pleasure to own something which looks good, sounds good, and is still going strong after 100+ years...

 

I don't know that there are any 'weaknesses' - nothing serious that springs immediately to mind. The Marcus is maybe a little heavy, but that's all I can think of...

 

I do tend to use the Marcus at Morris dance-outs and the vintage instruments at home, for the same reasons as those outlined by AndyNT...

 

FWIW, I've dealt with Barleycorn, they are fine. Of course, for me they are only down the road, not on the other side of the Atlantic...

Edited September 12, 2023 by lachenal74693

[Joe G.]

Where are you in the PNW? I live in SW Washington, and I'd be happy to let you fondle some anglos. You'd at least get to feel how different one is from another, and that might help you make a long-distance decision with Barleycorn.

[Eugenides]

1 hour ago, Joe G. said:

Where are you in the PNW? I live in SW Washington, and I'd be happy to let you fondle some anglos. You'd at least get to feel how different one is from another, and that might help you make a long-distance decision with Barleycorn.

I appreciate your offer! I'll send you a direct message presently.

[John Sylte]

And I'm not far from Spokane WA. You could take my Lachenal, Stagi, and Jeffries for a spin if you're in my area?

[Eugenides]

7 minutes ago, John Sylte said:

And I'm not far from Spokane WA. You could take my Lachenal, Stagi, and Jeffries for a spin if you're in my area?

Appreciate that offer! I'm on the peninsula, so you're a bit far off, sadly.