5 Fold vs 6 Fold Bellow

[Randy Stein]

Available is a 48 button treble for sale at a really great price. It probably needs some work but even so might be worth it given the cost. 

It has a 5 fold bellows and I guess I am biased as I've always played 6 fold. When I've had a chance to play a 5 fold I noticed the difference but that could have been the particular EC as well.

Any experience or insight is appreciated. 

[seanc]

I May be the exception, or I am just doing it wrong... I generally play pretty quietly. But, I have not noticed that huge of a difference. And, at least for me 5 vs 6 would not be a deal breaker if that specific one, played, sounded and looked really good to me.

 

I have had the opportunity to play the same instruments side by side  a couple of times. To me, there seems to be a lot more variation in volume, note length due to time, leaks, wear and tear from box to box than I would attribute to 5 vs 6.

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by seanc

[Paul_Hardy]

I don't think it is a big problem on an English concertina. Unlike basic Anglos where bellows direction is forced by note choice, bellows use on English is determined by phrase length or need to attack a key note. If you watch good English players like Rob Harbron, their bellows remain compact and they never get near the end zones. Even I (as a mediocre player)  rarely run out of air on a five-fold instrument.

 

My recent acquisition of an earlier period high end Wheatstone (https://pghardy.net/concertina/wheatstone_11689/wheatstone_11689.html) is an indication - despite costing ten times the cost of the basic model, it only has five-fold bellows.

[seanc]

1 hour ago, Paul_Hardy said:

I don't think it is a big problem on an English concertina. Unlike basic Anglos where bellows direction is forced by note choice, bellows use on English is determined by phrase length or need to attack a key note. If you watch good English players like Rob Harbron, their bellows remain compact and they never get near the end zones. Even I (as a mediocre player)  rarely run out of air on a five-fold instrument.

 

My recent acquisition of an earlier period high end Wheatstone (https://pghardy.net/concertina/wheatstone_11689/wheatstone_11689.html) is an indication - despite costing ten times the cost of the basic model, it only has five-fold bellows.

 

 

I don't know this from experience...

 

But, I would assume that if in a session/ playing with others environment that the need to be louder might lead to more folds being necessary?

 

[John Wild]

A problem might arise the other way round. If you get used to playing an instrument with 6 (or even 7) bellow folds, you might subsequently find it difficult to re-adjust with playing an instrument with fewer folds.

[Robin Harrison]

I have always preferred six fold to five fold. 

        But if the price is sufficiently attractive etc........Dave Robertson (on this site) made me a 6 fold set for an Aeola and they are wonderful. It's like have original 1923 bellows that are brand new.

         But Randy, with your superior ability,  I doubt you would notice any substantial difference.

Robin 

      

[alex_holden]

The quality and construction style of the bellows makes a difference too. A really good supple five fold bellows can have the capacity of a poorly made stiff seven fold.

[4to5to6]

My favorite English concertina from 1856 only has 4 folds and surprisingly, I never run out of air. However, the folds are much wider than normal giving it a lot of extra capacity.  Serial number is sandwiched between one for Regondi 7572 and Blagrove 7574 so I presume it is a best of the best instrument.  Charles Wheatstone was still alive when it was built. It was also cared for and stored extremely well as it is in exceptional condition... even the wooden case is almost mint perfect.  It is untouched original except for the steel reeds tuned to A440.  I have a number of Aeolas, an edeophone, etc. but this is the one I love to play the most and I am sure the deep fold bellows has something to do with it!  Thinking about it, Regondi played 4-part harmonies with 4-folds and I’m sure he didn’t run out of air.  I’m really not sure that the later instruments are better when I see how express and fun to play this 1856 is!  Maybe in some ways technology moved on but the early craftmanship, especially on concert level instruments, was amazing!  I found out later that I purchased it exactly on it's 165th birthday!

 

My later (also very rare due to the war) brass shoe, steel reed 1942 Aeolla treble has a factory 8 fold fellows which is fun but a bit extreme in my opinion and takes away from the tone and expression, also in my opinion.   It is still an exceptional instrument as well, totally untouched as it was factory tuned to A440 but there is something special about my 4-fold 1856 Bulteel.

Edited May 17, 2023 by 4to5to6

[fred v]

I have 2 Wheatstone 5 fold EC's and have never had a problem but I reverse every 4 notes or less; every 2 notes on a hornpipe. I play at a session every week in a noisy pub and have to play loud.