Contertina Note/key Range?

[The bing]

Hi lads .

 

I'm writing a thesis on Irish traditional music for a course i'm doing but i need to find out the limitations of certain instruments as regards range , keys etc.

I must confess i find the Anglo German Concertina (or c\g concertina) a hard instrument to understand from a playing point of view.

I am using the popular piece Music for a Found Harmonium in Dmajor to try and suss out which instruments can play what.

I am wondering if anyone has (specifically) a C\G contertina and has tried to play this piece on it.

Is it possible considring the key signature changes from D to C to Bflat? What are the problems for a contertina player tackling this piece?

 

Any possible help or answers would be much appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Gary

 

http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=thesession.org/tunes/346.no-ext/0001

Link to tune

[Bill N]

Here it is played on a 30 button concertina, but in the G/D tuning.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS1JEV50dx0

[hjcjones]

I don't play in the Irish style so I've no idea of the difficulties of playing this piece. However the tune is neither Irish nor traditional (it was written by Simon Jeffes of the Penguin Cafe Orchestra, who was English), so I wonder about its relevance to your thesis. It has been popularised by a number of contemporary Irish musicians, among others, but that is its only connection. Whilst the rhythm resembles a reel, the structure and in particular the key changes (which present the greatest challenges to diatonic instruments) don't seem to me to be very typical of traditional Irish music. As a test-piece for the ability of instruments to play traditional Irish music I must say it seems to me a strange choice.

[Peter Laban]

As a test-piece for the ability of instruments to play traditional Irish music I must say it seems to me a strange choice.

 

Someone once said something along the lines of 'if you can't play it on the pipes, it can't be traditional'. While that's not something I'd subscribe to or agree with but it would rule out this one forthwith. That aside, Howard above summarised it very well, Irish nor traditional and, probably more importantly, not representing any shape, range or form of Irish music.

[Lawrence Reeves]

The note choices and combinations are playable on a 30 buttoned C/G. The tune is also playable by an 8 keyed simple system flute. Meaning that the notes are all there, if a player chose to tackle the tune. By comparison the notes, and patterns are probably easier to execute than the G minor hornpipe "The Drunken Sailor".

[The bing]

Cheers lads.

 

I know this isnt an irish tune but im but im using it as example of why irish tunes stick to standard key signatures otherwise it wouldnt be played in sessions etc as alot of intruments couldn't handle these type of chord or note progressions .

 

Ive already ruled out the pipes, Irish harp etc but the C\G has a 20 and a 30 button version , but im nearly sure that its the 20 button version which is most standard in irish music . I take it the 30 button has more 'accidentals' or is that because the range is bigger?

 

I've been in a few sessions years and years ago but i cant remember there ever being a concertina player there when this tune came up.

 

 

Thank you so much for your answeres already

[Bill N]

In today's Irish sessions the 30 button concertina in C/G is the norm. The keys of G and C, and relative minors are easy to play, and by playing across the rows and

using the C#(s) in the third row, tunes in the key of D can be played smoothly and at a quick pace.

 

In the late 19th/early 20th centuries one would have seen a greater variety of concertinas playing traditional music, including many cheap, German-made 20 button instruments, and instruments in other tunings (e.g. D/A).

Edited December 2, 2015 by Bill N

[Tradewinds Ted]

30 button seems to be the most common, but actually a 26 button C/g is more than enough in most sessions.

 

The 20 button C/g is great in C and G major, A and E minor and the related modes, but it doesn't have the C# that is so very necessary to play the many D major tunes encountered in many Irish sessions. I bring along a D whistle for that very reason, and the covers most tunes that my 20 button concertina won't play. (or would if I could keep up!)

 

The example tune looks like it would work fine on a 26 button C/g (although I've not tried it) and it would certainly work on a 30 button instrument, as mentioned already.

[hjcjones]

The "core" notes of the anglo concertina are those of the 20 button instrument. These are most easily played "up and down the rows" in the home keys of C and G. Once you understand the push-pull sequence the layout is logical and fairly intuitive.

 

Larger instruments usually add more notes rather than extend the range by very much. These may be accidentals, outside the home keys, or they may duplicate notes to offer alternative fingerings and different bellows directions. The layouts of these additional notes are not consistent - there are two broadly 'standard' layouts but individual instruments vary.

 

The 30-button is chromatic, in the sense that all the notes are there, but the layout may make some keys more difficult to play. The more sharps or flats you introduce into the key signature, the less logical and intuitive the fingering pattern becomes and the more difficult the fingering patterns become. In theory, on a chromatic 30-key or upwards concertina anything should be playable, as all the notes are there. In practice, tunes in some keys will be difficult, if not impossible, for all but the most accomplished players.

 

Simply looking at the available notes or range of an instrument doesn't really tell you much about what can be played on it, as fingering patterns and playability are just as important, if not more. On the other hand, technically limited instruments may be capable of playing tunes apparently outside their range - players become adept at changing octaves, and fudging notes - the ear can be fooled into hearing notes which aren't there. There is a video on the internet of someone playing "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" on a one-row melodeon - it shouldn't be possible, but he manages it.

Edited December 3, 2015 by hjcjones

[The bing]

Ok i think i have an answer on this now lads so i just want to thank you all for taking the time to post .

 

I'm having the same problems with the melodean and button accordian and its different versions.

 

For the concertina its possible to play this tune on a 30 button anglo/german instrument but from what i gather it needs more practice(than usual) or just needs an accomplished player to tackle and perform it . I struggled with this piece myself on the fiddle years ago.

Sharon shannon did a recording of this but on an accordian (she also plays contertina) so i guess that in itself is a clue to the specific akwardness of a tune like this for this instrument.

 

Thanks all

[hjcjones]

Here's the "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" played on a one-row melodeon which I referred to previously - not something most would have thought possible on that instrument.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVjDpcouXc

 

Sharron Shannon plays a two-row melodeon/accordion with a chromatic layout. However there are several versions of these layouts, and they each present different playing challenges, so while playing in various keys may be possible they may not all be equally easy. She is also a world-class player! Other forms of button accordion are not chromatic and are more limited in what they can play, although this can be fudged to a certain extent, and some have extra buttons which add some accidentals.

 

I wasn't aware she plays concertina - if she does I don't think she performs on it professionally, and I wouldn't expect her to use it for a tune like "Found Harmonium" rather than her usual instruments of accordion or fiddle.

 

It should be self-evident that the preferred keys for traditional music will be dictated by the preferred instruments, especially where these favour playing in particular keys. Even fully-chromatic instruments often have preferred keys. Whilst the violin is fully chromatic and orchestral players are expected to play in any key, many folk fiddle styles (not just Irish) use a lot of open strings which leads to playing in sharp keys, mainly D, G and A. On the other hand, in England the preferred instrument of many players from East Anglia was one-row melodeon tuned in C, so C tends to be the dominant key, and fiddle players just had to go along with it. It also works the other way of course, so traditional music tends to be shaped in ways which suit the most common instruments. Fiddle, flute and pipes versions of the same tune can often be distinguished from each other.

[SteveS]

Here's the "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" played on a one-row melodeon which I referred to previously - not something most would have thought possible on that instrument.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVjDpcouXc

 

 

Impressive. How is that even possible??

[JimLucas]

Here's the "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" played on a one-row melodeon which I referred to previously - not something most would have thought possible on that instrument.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVjDpcouXc

Impressive. How is that even possible??

Well, he does play fast and loose with the melody in places, and for one short stretch I think the piano even takes over the melody line where an accidental is important. I speculate that he could just be making creative use of a "standard" one-row which has a couple of extra buttons at the bottom for accidentals (I've seen such), but it could also be an instrument with a special "one" row designed and built specifically for the purpose. In the only images I could find of Markku with an instrument where the keyboard was clearly visible, the instruments were all 2½-row, so that was no help.

Edited December 4, 2015 by JimLucas