Don Taylor Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I have a nice Crane that has its original bellows papers but at some time in its life somebody has polished the bellows and the papers with what I am assuming is black shoe polish - maybe many times over its lifetime. Now the papers look very dowdy and I want to replace them, I have embarked on removing them but it is a painstakingly slow process as the papers will not soak up water. I am wondering if there is anything that I can use to de-wax the papers without damaging the leather? Maybe some diluted isopropyl alcohol? I think that I have to remove the papers because I do not think that anything will stick to the existing waxy papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Did you try to lift the papers with a both acute and sharp blade? That's how I removed the papers of my Excelsior to a great extent (without applying any water or solvent) ... edit: and without major damage done... Edited December 2, 2014 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Taylor Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Did you try to lift the papers with a both acute and sharp blade? That's how I removed the papers of my Excelsior to a great extent (without applying any water or solvent) ... edit: and without major damage done... Yes, that is what I did last night, but it takes about 30 minutes to completely remove one paper. I have done 4, but I still have 80 more to do... I will do this if I have to, but I am hoping for a magically quick method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann-p Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I know that white spirit removes wax and wax shoe polish, but whether you should use that I can't say. Experts advise please!! Another housewife's method is to put blotting paper onto the waxy area, kitchen roll in this day and age instead if you haven't got any, then ironing to melt the wax and soak it up. You could try that. Substitute the smooth front of the handle of a dessert spoon for the iron, heat it up carefully, gas or candle (don't spill the wax!). For the ex soldiers here this was how to polish boots! The warmth might help to soften the glue on the paper, but don't let the bellows fall apart!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Scratch the surface if the waxed paper with coarse abrasive paper, then apply water and it will soak in via the scratches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) I know that white spirit removes wax and wax shoe polish, but whether you should use that I can't say. Experts advise please!! Another housewife's method is to put blotting paper onto the waxy area, kitchen roll in this day and age instead if you haven't got any, then ironing to melt the wax and soak it up. You could try that. Substitute the smooth front of the handle of a dessert spoon for the iron, heat it up carefully, gas or candle (don't spill the wax!). For the ex soldiers here this was how to polish boots! The warmth might help to soften the glue on the paper, but don't let the bellows fall apart!! Heat will loosen the glue (probably hide glue) - not recommended with bellows, unless you want a kit of parts Edited December 4, 2014 by SteveS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Taylor Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Scratch the surface if the waxed paper with coarse abrasive paper, then apply water and it will soak in via the scratches. This works a treat. Thanks. You do have to be patient and wait for the water to do its job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann-p Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 SteveS, That was what I was alluding to (!), although any heat would be very localised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWL Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Xylene dissolves wax. In the US it's available in hardware stores in the paint section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Taylor Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Xylene dissolves wax. In the US it's available in hardware stores in the paint section. Ayeeh! Xylene also dissolves human brain cells and I don't have too many of those left. The main effect of inhaling xylene vapor is depression of the central nervous system, with symptoms such as headache, dizziness, nausea and vomiting. I'd rather have a single malt do that for me. Theo suggested sanding the face of the bellows papers which has worked well for me in two ways: a lot of the wax gets scraped off onto the sandpaper, and the face of the bellows paper gets abraded enough to let some water soak through to soften the glue. A few coats of water painted onto the bellows paper with a Q-tip plus some wait time between coatings has reduced my average removal time per paper to about 10 minutes. The paper usually comes off in one piece. I am curious as to what glue might have been used. It is reddish and resets very quickly when it dries, but also softens quickly when moistened. Some sort of animal glue? Bunny skin glue? These are original bellows from an early 20th C. Lachenal/Crane duet. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWL Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I wouldn't go out of my way to breathe high concentrations of any solvent, but we used xylene(s) in our histology lab for decades, long before there were OSHA mandated ventilation standards, when the lab always had a faint aroma of xylene, and nobody got sick. Nobody got cancer. If you get tired of the sandpaper method, use nitrile gloves, do it outdoors and wipe over the papers with a xylene moistened rag to wipe off the old polish. It might also remove the black from other areas, so don't wipe it on too broadly. IIRC d-limonene, made from citrus skins also dissolves wax. Citra Solv might work but I don't have personal experience with that and wax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Taylor Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 RWL I should apologize for being flippant about your suggestion of using Xylene. For all I know this might well be the best way to remove the wax and perhaps this should be in every fettlers toolbox. I am reluctant to try it because I would have to do this job inside our house and because I am leery about using any strong solvents on a vintage concertina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWL Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 If I couldn't go outdoors or go somewhere where I couldn't smell the xylene when I was done, I wouldn't use it either. In my cellar shop, it dissipates rather quickly for the few times I need to use it. Taking the affected rags outside to the trash helps a great deal. At one of the labs we covered, they used a product called Citrisolve (Fisher Scientific) as a xylene substitute in the tissue processor. I don't know if it's the same as the product Citra Solv that is more readily available to the public. That's why I was hesitant to be sure that Citra Solv would dissolve wax. Your home would smell like oranges for the day. Small doses of xylene or Citrisolve is unlikely to damage the card stock, leather or glue of the bellows, but it could remove the black finish from the surrounding card if you went very widely around the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWL Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'll add a PS to the subject. Some luthiers use xylene to remove rosin from stringed instruments. It doesn't affect spirit or oil varnish, or the sprayed lacquers on mass produced violins. Put some on a Q tip and check under the fingerboard first to make sure your instrument doesn't have a finish that's the exception to the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Xylene dissolves wax. In the US it's available in hardware stores in the paint section. The main effect of inhaling xylene vapor is depression of the central nervous system, with symptoms such as headache, dizziness, nausea and vomiting. I'd rather have a single malt do that for me. My recollection, from when I was around a lot of it, is that it's also a cumulative liver poison. One of the reasons I quit that job. Correction: Re-remembering, I think it was toluene, not xylene that I was working with. Still, they're very similar compounds. Also, in Wikipedia I find no indication that either compound either has a cumulative effect or affects the liver. Strange, since that was "common knowledge" at the university where I was working 45 years ago. I guess I'll leave further discussion -- or research -- to others. As for single malt whiskey, I'm pleased to say that I've never experienced those unpleasant symptoms with any of them. Edited December 12, 2014 by JimLucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWL Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 According to my reference "Disposition of Toxic Drugs and Chemicals in Man" there is no chronic organ damage from xylene exposure, so no liver problems. Like anything else, in high concentrations, e.g. drinking the stuff, it can kill you. See the attached page - and hoping it can be read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 According to my reference "Disposition of Toxic Drugs and Chemicals in Man" there is no chronic organ damage from xylene exposure, so no liver problems. Like anything else, in high concentrations, e.g. drinking the stuff, it can kill you. See the attached page - and hoping it can be read. Maybe an error on my part (I'll go correct my original post), but also a lesson and a question. The error: Thinking back (it was about 45 years ago), I think it may have been a different "-ene" I was working with... toluene, not xylene. Toluene is benzene with one methyl side chain; xylene has two. Referring to Wikipedia, I'm told that toluene is less toxic than benzene itself, so maybe toxicity lessens with each additional methyl? Well, that's speculation. The lesson: There is also no mention of either the liver or cumulative toxicity in the Wikipedia articles about either toluene or xylene, yet back then such toxicity from toluene was considered well-established knowledge... at least at the well-known university where I worked. So apparently, "established knowledge" can change. The question: Can it change yet again? Maybe even reverse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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