Advice Please On 'entry-Level' 30-Button C/g Anglo

[Roger Hare]

I'm a novice player with a 20-button C/G Lachenal Anglo which I acquired a few

weeks ago.

 

I am having a complete blast with this instrument - I wish I'd bought a concertina

years and years ago!

 

I'm so enthusiastic (my sailing buddies say too enthusiastic!) that I'm already

considering acquiring an instrument with a third row of 'accidentals'. I'm put off

a little by the prices of restored instruments, and found this 'entry-level' instrument

on the internet:

 

http://www.irishmusik.com/the-wren-concertina/

 

Does anyone have any experience with this machine? Any advice on what to

look out for or beware of? Any advice would be most gratefully received.

 

Thank you

 

Roger Hare

Edited November 2, 2014 by lachenal74693

[Geoff Wooff]

The one thing about 'the prices of restored instruments' is that, in general, they hold their value... unless, that is, one has paid well over the odds in the first place.

 

So, buying a decent vintage concertina is not so much spending money as investing it.

 

I've little idea about the new instrument you ask about but my experiences in the area of Uilleann pipes is that..... 'only the best is a bargan'.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[Don Taylor]

Roger

 

If you have been playing a vintage 20b then I suspect that you will be disappointed with any of the cheap 30b boxes.

 

Having said that, the usual advice is to buy a new or used Rochelle. It, at least, has a proper action and will have retain some resale value when you want to trade up.

 

Don.

[Roger Hare]

"...the usual advice is to buy a new or used Rochelle..."

 

Don, thank you. As a relative new chum, I did not know about the Concertina Connection.

 

The Rochelle looks a very interesting instrument - the specification looks OK and the price including shipping

is almost exactly the same as the Wren (using today's exchange rate).

 

Interestingly, the UK dealer listed in the Rochelle website appears to be charging an excess of approximately

£70 ($110) over the Rochelle package price, so ordering direct from Rochelle looks like the favourite option.

 

As far as trading up is concerned, CC seem to have a generous trade-in program if you buy one of their

high(er) end instruments.

 

Bears some thinking about - thank you once again.

 

Roger

Edited November 2, 2014 by lachenal74693

[Sidsqueezer]

I "invested" in a Rochelle about a month ago and I find it OK for a beginner but much physically harder to play than top quality boxes because the reeds respond a lot slower, especially on higher notes. If you can afford a better box and feel committed to learning the instrument, I would say look for a better box, perhaps with a budget of about £1500.

 

the box you are looking at looks OK and they do offer a guarantee.

[Sidsqueezer]

BTW, if you are considering a Rochelle, I found best price and excellent service at Celtic Chords, Aberdeen. I paid them £330 for box, bag and tutor book and P&p. The Music Room are asking £390 for same package and they were out of stock when I was buying in September.

[Don Taylor]

Roger:

 

The best deal is if you can find a decent used Rochelle in the UK (anybody help here?) because Wim's trade-up policy is such that he does not care where you bought it. He has some method to date the concertina and he will give you his price at that time as a trade in towards a new CC concertina.

 

If you are going to buy new then do check out the Button Box in the US as they will give you a trade-in against their highly regarded Ceili. So if you go with them then you have two trade-up possibilities. Of course this works really well if you live in the US, but check with them anyway about how much they would charge to ship one to you in the UK. I am guessing about 50 pounds.

 

A final possibility is Bob Tedrow, who sells the Rochelle as a dealer, but also has a supercharge package where he makes a few mods to improve its action and tuning.

 

Having said all this, I have owned two CC entry level concertinas and, well how shall I say this, they are not very pretty and they area lot bigger than a vintage concertina. You should try to get your hands on one before you buy if you can possibly manage it.

 

Don.

[Roger Hare]

"...they are not very pretty and they are a lot bigger than a vintage concertina..."

 

Ah! Possibly the killer criteria! I am specifically interested in a 'good looking' and a

physically small(er) instrument. Time to stop being tight-fisted I think...

 

Thank you.

 

Roger

[Sidsqueezer]

I discoverd why Rochelle is deeper from end plates to bellows than most better boxes. CC use a design where the reeds are mounted in blocks roughly perpendicular to the end plates i.e. Protruding into the bellows not arranged radially as per classic design. So more space is needed in the bellows.

 

this does have the advantage that reed direction and synthetic valves mean that the box storage position is not critical. In fact best position is probably upright in gig bag, contrary to normal practice.

[Ian Martyn]

I have some experience playing a Rochelle that a friend had purchased on a whim and I noticed that the action was significantly stiffer than that of the Lachenal that I'm used to playing. I highly suggest spending the extra money and purchasing a restored antique.

[MatthewVanitas]

Roger, have you looked into getting something like a 26-button? If you don't need absolutely all the buttons of a 30, Anglos between 20 and 30 are somewhat more expensive than a 20 but notably cheaper than a 30. If you want to do really jazzy stuff, 30 might be needed, but if you're playing more trad stuff, and just want to be able to play in more keys, a 26b Lachenal might be a good compromise. Still quality, holds its value, compact frame, and gives you a good number of chromatics.

[Mike Franch]

I enter this discussion with some diffidence, as I'm an EC player with access to plenty of accidentals. But I was also in your place at one time, suddenly unhappy with my CC Jackie because I wanted to play a tune that I couldn't with its 30 buttons, so I think I felt some of the same frustrations and urges that you might now be feeling.

 

In retrospect, I might have been better holding onto the Jackie for longer and mastering what it could do. I bought up, but not far enough up. That wasn't an economical move in the long run.

 

You might consider whether you've had the 20-button long enough to have gotten good mastery of it and what it offers. After all, a lot of not well-off folks in the old days made a lot of music on 20-button boxes. I think I've read that William Kimber, the great morris dance concertinist, just played his accustomed two rows when given a three-row instrument.

 

When you're really ready, then you can make the big leap. The CC instruments are great for what they are, but since you've started out with a Lachenal, I suspect that you won't be happy

[d.elliott]

I enter this discussion with some diffidence, as I'm an EC player with access to plenty of accidentals. But I was also in your place at one time, suddenly unhappy with my CC Jackie because I wanted to play a tune that I couldn't with its 30 buttons, so I think I felt some of the same frustrations and urges that you might now be feeling.

 

In retrospect, I might have been better holding onto the Jackie for longer and mastering what it could do. I bought up, but not far enough up. That wasn't an economical move in the long run.

 

You might consider whether you've had the 20-button long enough to have gotten good mastery of it and what it offers. After all, a lot of not well-off folks in the old days made a lot of music on 20-button boxes. I think I've read that William Kimber, the great morris dance concertinist, just played his accustomed two rows when given a three-row instrument.

 

When you're really ready, then you can make the big leap. The CC instruments are great for what they are, but since you've started out with a Lachenal, I suspect that you won't be happy

 

A few years ago I restored an amboyna ended, silver mounted Anglo with additional silver plates on each end carrying a family coat of arms. All the silver work was hall marked. By researching the coat of arms, and the dates of the hall marks. I was able to establish that the owner had been a Viceroy of India, and he was indeed still in appointment when the instrument was made.

 

I feel sure that he could have afforded a 30 k if he had wanted it, and probably some one to play it for him too. I would not dismiss a 20 k too quickly. As Mike says, get the most out of what you have got, save your brass and select you next instrument with confidence.

 

Dave

[Tradewinds Ted]

I can't answer the original question about the "wren" I do't know anything about it. It might be fine, and that probably depends on what you are expecting.

 

I can add my voice to the chorus of exploring the 20b instrument for a while longer first. I have a 20b Lachenal that I bought more than 3 years ago, that I dearly love. There is quite a bit you can do with the twenty button, even outside of the traditional Irish and English styles. For example, most Cajun music is played on a one row melodeon, and you already have two rows, so could learn to play many such tunes in either of two keys! Also could play a great many American Old-Time fiddle tunes, although sometimes that will mean transposing from A or D down to G or C.

 

I actually bought a restored 30b Lachenal last year but recently sold it on, because it wasn't as nice as my 20b, and it just didn't suit me well enough. So just being a restored old instrument doesn't necessarily mean it will be great.

 

If by small, you actually mean light, then when you are ready to increase your button count, you might find the Morse Ceili interesting. Probably the lightest out there, and very fast responsive action. I don't own one but I've tried them out at the Music Room in Cleckheaton a number of times, and will probably own one relatively soon. But of course, much more expensive than the "wren" you asked about. Slightly less expensive, slightly heavier, but just as good are the Marcus instruments.

[maki]

"Slightly less expensive, slightly heavier, but just as good are the Marcus instruments."

 

The Marcus has steel reeds, the Ceili has aluminum reeds.

[Stephen Chambers]

The Marcus has steel reeds, the Ceili has aluminum reeds.

 

Both have steel reeds on aluminium frames.

[cjourney]

I recently bought a Wren and had it shipped over for a decent price. I started on a Rochelle and found it too big for my hands and pretty stiff. I am finding the Wren easier to play and the right size for my hands. It is apparently assembled in the Irish Musik workshop and tweaked and tuned before sending out. I have no complaints with it as my starter box and hope to trade up for a nicer one when I can. Until then...it's been good to learn on.

[maki]

I recently bought a Wren and had it shipped over for a decent price. I started on a Rochelle and found it too big for my hands and pretty stiff. I am finding the Wren easier to play and the right size for my hands. It is apparently assembled in the Irish Musik workshop and tweaked and tuned before sending out. I have no complaints with it as my starter box and hope to trade up for a nicer one when I can. Until then...it's been good to learn on.

Hello and welcome.

What kind of music do you usually play?