C#/g# Anglo

[aradru]

Hello to all. This is my first post.

My question is this:

How feasible would it be to retune a hybrid C/G Anglo to C#/G# ?

 

The conversion would be made to a mid-range instrument with accordion reeds.

 

If anyone has any experience of a similar project, I would appreciate their advice.

 

Go raibh maith agaibh.

[Frank Edgley]

This would require quite a bit of work and run the risk of damaging the reeds. There are reed makers who would make a single set of C#/G# reeds but there is usually an extra charge, and you would need to measure the lengths of the exisiting reeds to send to the reed maker.

[aradru]

Hi Frank. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Do you mean that it is never advisable to attempt to tune accordion reeds up a semitone?

 

Are any of the cheap concertina manufacturers (e.g. stagi, etc) making a C#/G# instrument?

[Frank Edgley]

A semitone is quite a step, but can usually be accomplished. I would not recommend it with any sort of decent instrument. I would consider a mid-range instrument "a decent instrument." No, I don't know of any makes of cheap concertinas that are available in C#/G#.

[Don Taylor]

I contacted an accordion repairman about tuning my accordion reeded concertina down by a semitone.

 

He said that it would be a lot of metal to remove, that he could do it successfully, that it would take him 30 hours and that he did not want the job.

 

He recommended buying and installing a new set of reeds, but that even then he figured on allowing several hours to fine tune them.

 

He also pointed out that a new set of reeds might not fit without modifying the sound board.

 

The original maker of my concertina said basically the same thing so I plan to ask the maker to replace my reeds - once I have the money for the job. I am expecting to pay about $500.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Don Taylor

[Alan Day]

What a strange posting.and key.

I just wonder if an old concert pitch concertina may be a simpler option and is this why you wish to retune your one?

Al

[Geoff Wooff]

Eb sessions in Ireland would call for a C/G tuned up a semi tone .. or a C#/G# in other words.

[aradru]

What a strange posting.and key.

.....

Al

Hi Alan.

Geoff has encapsulated my reasoning in his post.

[Geoff Wooff]

Alan,
a strange key would be something like;
" I want my concertina to play in tune with a C# set of Uilleann pipes that Geoff Wooff made. He modelled it on an ancient set and it Plays in C# less 33 cents !"

So that would call for a C/G tuned down by one and one third semitones.

 

Oh, and then of course it would need to be in Just Intonation (or something like it) based on that strange pitch.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Geoff Wooff

[Alan Day]

Alan,

a strange key would be something like;

" I want my concertina to play in tune with a C# set of Uilleann pipes that Geoff Wooff made. He modelled it on an ancient set and it Plays in C# less 33 cents !"

 

So that would call for a C/G tuned down by one and one third semitones.

 

Oh, and then of course it would need to be in Just Intonation (or something like it) based on that strange pitch.

So it's all your fault then

Al

[aradru]

Alan,

a strange key would be something like;

" I want my concertina to play in tune with a C# set of Uilleann pipes that Geoff Wooff made. He modelled it on an ancient set and it Plays in C# less 33 cents !"

.......

 

That is stranger than strange!

[Geoff Wooff]

 

Alan,

a strange key would be something like;

" I want my concertina to play in tune with a C# set of Uilleann pipes that Geoff Wooff made. He modelled it on an ancient set and it Plays in C# less 33 cents !"

 

So that would call for a C/G tuned down by one and one third semitones.

 

Oh, and then of course it would need to be in Just Intonation (or something like it) based on that strange pitch.

So it's all your fault then

Al

 

Well........ not ALL perhaps ?

[david robertson]

You want strange, try this one on for size. I've just finished the restoration of a Linota which was in B/F# - and nearly all the reeds were stamped thus, so it wasn't just a Bb/F tickled up a bit!

I say 'nearly' because there was the odd aberration. A G, for example, stamped F##. Strangest of all, the penultimate note in the rising F# scale was not an F, but an E, and stamped thus, making it impossible to play the scale. Hard to believe it left the factory like that, but even harder to imagine that someone chose that layout later!

[ben]

I just received news from Greg Jowaisas that my one Linota which I thought was a C/G.....is actually a C# / G#. He advised me not to have it retuned to a C/G. If you know anyone who is interested in a Wheatstone Linota C# / G# 30 button concertina from 1929...then send me a PM. I am having a 40 button C/G concertina built for me by Colin Dipper and I will need to sell my Linota to partially fund the new Dipper concertina.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

 

You want strange, try this one on for size. I've just finished the restoration of a Linota which was in B/F# - and nearly all the reeds were stamped thus, so it wasn't just a Bb/F tickled up a bit!

I say 'nearly' because there was the odd aberration. A G, for example, stamped F##. Strangest of all, the penultimate note in the rising F# scale was not an F, but an E, and stamped thus, making it impossible to play the scale. Hard to believe it left the factory like that, but even harder to imagine that someone chose that layout later!

Actually David, B/F# seems to have been quite common, at least before the turn of the century (1900).

The Crabb records show that of the Anglo's made during the year 1890. 4 were C/G, 4 were Bb/F,

1 was G/D and, believe it or not, 39 were B/F#.

 

In a private discussion about 'why B/F#' , a couple of years ago, I was not able to offer any reasons. However, the outcome of a chance conversation with an organ builder earlier this year may throw some light on the subject. When I have had a chance to write something up, amongst all my other endeavours, I will post something.

 

Although rare, an occasional B/F# Anglo does appear in the records between 1900 and 1989 and even the odd Crane Duet made in the key of B natural.

 

Geoffrey

Edited September 18, 2013 by Geoffrey Crabb

[felix castro]

About the strange keys in C#/G# I have my Colin Dipper, that appears in Anglo International, in C sharp / G sharp, I decided it when I asked for playing in Bb, Eb, along bagpipes in Bb, Eb flutes, etc. as irish music musicians do. I play in Bb with the same fingering than A in a C/G, I posted several recordings playing along the bagpipes in a past topic by Jody Kruskal.

Edited October 15, 2013 by felix castro

[twisper]

As Alan mentioned above, some older vintage boxes were pitched to "Philharmonic", which was about A450 or so. I have a C/G Jones pitched in that key. After measuring the intervals, the temperament was very close to 1/4 comma meantone. It was just a bit flat from modern C#/G#.

Edited September 29, 2013 by twisper