Anglo vs English concertina, diatonic vs chromatic: which one should i

[domron]

Hi

 

I am new to the forum, new to concertinas (still haven't decided which type to buy) but not new to folk music. I have been playing fiddle, mandolin, mandola, guitar and singing for 35 years. I play mainly Irish music, but not in sessions, on a more homely basis with guitar or bouzouki accompaniment (when i am playing fiddle or mandolin). Small concerts in restaurants and wine tasting dos (I live in Umbria, central Italy).. For reasons I cannot explain ( but I am sure everyone in the forum will understand) I am drawn to the concertina, have yet to get my hands on one, but with a totally melodic chromatic background I am very perplexed about playing diatonic and the anglo concertina. At the same time I know it is the most used in Irish but also Breton, Galician and Asturian folk music. I am torn between the concertina connection Jackie English and the Rochelle Anglo. I confess with my classical, chromatic background I am a bit perplexed about the change of note on the push and pull of the diatonic anglo concertina, something that at this stage of my musical career appears fairly daunting (though it is something that hoards of musicians with my same doubts have got over. My question is what is the difference between playing jigs and reels on an anglo and on an English concertina? Can you do a decent job in playing jigs and reels on an English concertina? Is it the aggressive in and out movement of the anglo that makes the difference?

 

 

 

 

 

over to anyone who would like to chip in.

[hjcjones]

This has been discussed many times, try searching the forum.

 

You don't say what type of folk music you want to play, but from the reference to jigs and reels I assume it is Irish. The purists will say that to play Irish music in an authentic way then only the anglo will do. It's not just the in-out of the bellows, the nature of the instrument dictates certain fingering techniques and styles which are characteristic of Irish concertina music. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who can play Irish music very well on the English.

 

Unless you are determined to play Irish music only in an authentic style, in which case only the Anglo will do, then I would say play whichever one you are most comfortable with. The push-pull aspect of the Anglo may appear daunting, but many find it quite intuitive after a while although some people never manage to get the hang of it. On the other hand, some (myself included) cannot get used to the tune switching between one hand and the other, as it does on the English. In other words, don't assume that because the English isn't push-pull it's necessarily easier to play - it seems to depend on how your brain is wired. If possible you should try to spend some time with both before deciding which you feel more comfortable with - which I realise may not be very easy for you to do.

[domron]

This has been discussed many times, try searching the forum.

 

You don't say what type of folk music you want to play, but from the reference to jigs and reels I assume it is Irish. The purists will say that to play Irish music in an authentic way then only the anglo will do. It's not just the in-out of the bellows, the nature of the instrument dictates certain fingering techniques and styles which are characteristic of Irish concertina music. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who can play Irish music very well on the English.

 

Unless you are determined to play Irish music only in an authentic style, in which case only the Anglo will do, then I would say play whichever one you are most comfortable with. The push-pull aspect of the Anglo may appear daunting, but many find it quite intuitive after a while although some people never manage to get the hang of it. On the other hand, some (myself included) cannot get used to the tune switching between one hand and the other, as it does on the English. In other words, don't assume that because the English isn't push-pull it's necessarily easier to play - it seems to depend on how your brain is wired. If possible you should try to spend some time with both before deciding which you feel more comfortable with - which I realise may not be very easy for you to do.

[domron]

Hi thanks very much. I'll take a look at the forum.

[domron]

Hi As well as Irish I play Breton, Galician and some Italian folk music. I tend to play slower Irish dance music in a low register (G,D,A string) and quite a few airs. I also mainly play in trio (me currently on fiddle and mandolin) with a guitar and bouzouki accompaniment. I rarely play in sessions (too far away, in Rome) so the instrument doesn't have to be particularly loud. More important that it is mellow. I would also like to put in a bit of accompaniment on the concertina. For all these various reasons i am considering the English concertina over the Anglo.

 

 

I imagined the anglo or English dilemma would be a common topic..... I tried searching the forum but didn't come up with anything.... I have only just started using it, I will try and refine my search.

 

 

Thanks again Hw.B.

[hjcjones]

It is indeed a common topic, and there is no right or wrong answer. Both systems have their pros and cons, and what is right for you will depend on what you want to play, how you want to play it, in what keys, and how well you get on with the very different keyboard layouts. And just when you think you've started to understand these issues, someone will recommend a Duet...

 

 

 

 

[Daniel Hersh]

It is indeed a common topic, and there is no right or wrong answer. Both systems have their pros and cons, and what is right for you will depend on what you want to play, how you want to play it, in what keys, and how well you get on with the very different keyboard layouts. And just when you think you've started to understand these issues, someone will recommend a Duet...

Indeed. The Elise Hayden is also in the Rochelle/Jackie family and it avoids both the push-pull issues of the Anglo and the right-left back-and-forth of the English. However, it's not fully chromatic (it has no G#/Ab or D#/Eb buttons) and it's range is a bit limited - it goes only up to high A.

 

The bottom line is that their are trade-offs between all the systems and it's a personal choice.

[ceemonster]

[Can you do a decent job in playing jigs and reels on an English concertina?] not merely a decent job, a gorgeous job. not merely a gorgeous job, an authentic job. however, it would be authentic in the way of instruments that play traditional irish music gorgeously WITHOUT being "on-the-row," push/pull bisonoric instruments a la one-row melodeons and harmonicas. such non-back-and-forth instruments include uilleann pipes, flute, whistle....fiddle when played in a more "long bow" style. all of these instruments lack nothing in not being "back-and-forth" bisonoric instruments. learning to play them and sound authentic DOES mean learning where to "breathe" or "come off" both between phrases and even between notes within phrases, in the manner that is "traditional irish music" phrasing, rather than, say, classical phrasing. the same would apply to playing this music on a unisonoric accordion or unisonoric concertina. there would be those who would still insist it's not "authentic," but this would apply only in the sense that it is true that in ireland, itm is usually played on bisonoric concertinas (anglo). however, you can play it gorgeously on english and have it sound as "authentic" as any "non back-and-forth" instrument does when playing this music using phrasing choices authentic to this genre of music.

 

the more important issue is, which type of instrument is right for you? take your best guess and try one. if it doesn't work, try the other. if unisonoric turns out to be the best fit for you, who cares what anyone else says about authenticity? life is short, art is long.....the important thing is, you are falling in love with the concertina!

Edited August 12, 2011 by ceemonster

[Chris Timson]

We haven't had one of these discussions for a little while. Here's what I wrote in the Concertina FAQ about 15 years ago and I haven't changed my mind in that time:-

 

In theory, before buying a concertina you would consider what you want it for and decide which type you need. For instance here are a few guidelines you may hear on the uses to which you might put the various types of concertina (as you will see, I take this with a pinch of salt myself):

 

- If you want to play in groups or ensembles of concertinas, go for an English concertina.

 

- For English folk dance the push-pull pattern of the anglo scale gives a "lift" to the music.

 

- For song accompaniment or for solo instrumentals duets are ideal.

 

- For fast flowing melody lines the key layout of an English gives it an edge.

 

- On the other hand if you play Irish music you shouldn't even think about buying anything other than a C/G anglo.

 

- If you intend to play from music or to compose music for the instrument, choose an English or a duet.

 

Unfortunately life is never that simple. The English is widely used for song accompaniment. Alistair Anderson has shown how successful the English can be for dance music and band work. I, like quite a few other people use the anglo for song accompaniment. There are some superb players of Irish music on the English concertina (even occasionally in Ireland). A lot of people lay down the law about what sort of concertina you should play for what sort of music; I, however, believe that you should find the sort of concertina that you feel comfortable playing. You will work out how to play the music you want on it. Conversely if you don't feel happy with the instrument you will never put the time into learning it properly.

 

Chris

Edited August 12, 2011 by Chris Timson

[Geoff Wooff]

At the prices of the Jackie, Rochelle and Elise you could buy all three and try them each out.... but the official Agent for "Concertina Connection" in France also offers a Hire service.... this is ideal for finding out if a particular Keyboard suits you... maybe your local dealer will do the same.

 

Good luck with your decision.... some of us are still trying to decide which keyboard suits us best, even after many years of playing.

 

Geoff.

[david_boveri]

get a diatonic harmonica in C. that is basically the C row on the Anglo. Get a harmonica in G, and likewise. See if you can figure out tunes on these two instruments. Anglo Concertina is more or less the same, but perhaps less awkward (no blowing).

[JimLucas]

get a diatonic harmonica in C. that is basically the C row on the Anglo. Get a harmonica in G, and likewise. See if you can figure out tunes on these two instruments. Anglo Concertina is more or less the same, but perhaps less awkward (no blowing).

Shouldn't you have a third harmonica tuned to the 30-button C/G anglo's "accidental" row?

 

And how do you play "cross row" on a pair of harmonicas?

 

P.S. I personally find the anglo far easier to play than even a single harmonica.

[Chris Timson]

Have to say I agree. Harmonicas may be a useful guide for melodeons but they're misleading for anglos. The split between the two ends has a profound effect on playing as compared with both melodeons and mouth organs.

 

Chris

[Steve Mansfield]

I personally find the anglo far easier to play than even a single harmonica.

 

And yet I, as a contrary example, can play harmonica perfectly happily, but am rendered completely helpless by anglo concertina and melodeon.

 

Which is one of the reasons I play English!

[SteveS]

I personally find the anglo far easier to play than even a single harmonica.

 

And yet I, as a contrary example, can play harmonica perfectly happily, but am rendered completely helpless by anglo concertina and melodeon.

 

Which is one of the reasons I play English!

I play EC and 1 row melodeon - didn't get anywhere with Anglo though.

[Jon]

Hi, I´m completely new to concertinas wih little musical experience. I play a bit of piano and can pick out a tune without too much difficulty on my Weltmeister 60 bass accordion but I´m finding lugging it about a burden and have decided to try the concertina. I confess I had thought it would be fairly straightforward and I´m surprised by the variety of instruments and techniques that are confusing, what I thought would be, a simple decision.

I realise that what I want to play is very relevant. While Irish music is good to listen to once in a while it does not have any particular appeal as a player and I suppose I favour English country music with the accent on song and dance. Does that give anyone out there any clues as to where I might start? All opinions will be given equal consideration. Thanks. Jon

[hjcjones]

For English music many people favour the Anglo - one in G/D is better if you want to play in sessions. However any of the systems will be perfectly fine, and you'll find English music being played on all of them. As I said previously, it very much depends on which system you feel most comfortable with. Some people can't get their heads around the anglo's push-pull, while others can't handle the way the scale constantly switches from one hand to the other on the English. They only way to find out which is right for you is to try them.

 

I play anglo, but if I were starting again I might consider the Duet - but don;'t ask me which one!

[yankeeclipper]

- On the other hand if you play Irish music you shouldn't even think about buying anything other than a C/G anglo.

 

Only true if all you play is Irish Traditional Dance Music - jigs, reels, hornpipes, jigs, reels, and so on and on. Fortunately, not all Irish music is TDM. And much of it is well played on ECs and duets.

Edited August 14, 2011 by yankeeclipper