Bushing Felt...

[varney]

A friend is visiting New York and is looking to buy some good piano felt for bushing concertina buttons. Does anyone know of a store in New York city where he can locate some? He's staying in Manhattan so anything located there would be really handy.

 

Thanks,

Michael.

[Bob Lusk]

There used to be a piano factory in Queens. Was it Steinway?

[shelly0312]

I've been wondering about this "felt" thing myself. True felt should be non-directional. "Felting" is a dynamic activity. You rub woven wool on something bumpy with warm soap-y water. The wool fibers have microscopic hairs that curl in on themselves, tightening the fabric into a non-directional solid mass that will be 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the original piece of fabric--but considerably thicker. I've been curious about the felts used in the concertinas because they do still exhibit some actual weaving (at least the ones I've looked at in my little Lachenal). The directions in the repair manuals are: cut across the diagonal of the fabric, to prevent raveling. So are they really felts? or woven wools? There must be a weight per square "something" (inch, mm, centimeter??) for the uniform product concertina repair and makers must seek. You can buy hobby felt at any fabric store--but I think regular hobby felt is way too heavy. But with the fabric stores available in NY--if you walk into one of the bigger speciality fabric stores or call in advance and show up with one of your tiny pieces of "felt" taped on a piece of paper--at a not too busy time of day; I've got to bet that someone would take an interest in such an esoteric question and tell you exactly what you've got; what you need and where to get it, even if they don't have it themselves. I find it a fun and attractive mission. And if you get a decent answer, let the rest of us know! I do know the standard answer is to order from a guy in England (Leese??)--but there has to be something easier that that!!

happy hunting Michelle SE WIS USA

[Bill N]

A friend is visiting New York and is looking to buy some good piano felt for bushing concertina buttons. Does anyone know of a store in New York city where he can locate some? He's staying in Manhattan so anything located there would be really handy.

 

Thanks,

Michael.

 

 

I once asked a cab driver in Manhattan, "Do you know where I can get felt in this town?" ...... He did.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[JimLucas]

A friend is visiting New York and is looking to buy some good piano felt for bushing concertina buttons. Does anyone know of a store in New York city where he can locate some? He's staying in Manhattan so anything located there would be really handy.

I've been waiting for the professional makers & repairers to jump in on this one, but it's been a few days, and so far they haven't.

 

I'm not at all sure that "piano felt" is the right stuff for bushing concertinas.

Not sure that it isn't, but my memory of what I saw last time (many years ago) I looked inside a non-electronic piano seems quite different from the felt that I got from Steve Dickinson back in the 1970's. And Steve sent me two different kinds, with the one specifically for the bushings around the buttons.

[JimLucas]

I've been wondering about this "felt" thing myself. True felt should be non-directional. "Felting" is a dynamic activity. You rub woven wool on something bumpy with warm soap-y water. The wool fibers have microscopic hairs that curl in on themselves, tightening the fabric into a non-directional solid mass that will be 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the original piece of fabric--but considerably thicker. I've been curious about the felts used in the concertinas because they do still exhibit some actual weaving (at least the ones I've looked at in my little Lachenal).

Soapy water is one felting method. The other method I'm familiar with is needle felting. Needle felting uses needles with very fine forward-facing barbs (i.e., pointing the opposite direction from the barbs on fishhooks and harpoons, so they catch on the way in rather than on the way out), which are pushed into the wool, catching the fibers and pushing them past each other so that they get tangled. Enough tangle, and they can't be pulled apart, but form an amorphous fabric.

 

But note that felting by either method isn't restricted to bulk wool; it can also be applied to wool that has been spun (i.e., yarn or thread) and knitted or woven into fabric. A friend of mine has recently taken some knitted slippers and caps, and used the hot water method to cause them to shrink and felt. The result is cross-linking of the fibers both within a thread and between adjacent strands, producing a fabric which is both knitted and felted, smoother and less permeable than the original knitting, yet softer and more flexible than pure felting of the same thickness.

 

So I wonder if the "felt" used in concertinas isn't a special fabric that is first woven, but then felted to give it a bit of nap (fuzzy surface texture).

 

I do know the standard answer is to order from a guy in England (Leese??)--but there has to be something easier that that!!

One might try searching for dealers in supplies for restoring player pianos and reed organs.

[Randall Cayford]

I do know the standard answer is to order from a guy in England (Leese??)--but there has to be something easier that that!!

Actually, I can't imagine that there is anything easier than that. A couple of minutes ordering online and it shows up in your mailbox a couple of days later.

 

That's assuming the goal is to get bushing felt - rather than the thrill of the chase, hunting down exactly what it is and where it comes from. Even then, it's still probably easier just to ask David Leese what it is and where it comes from.

[Rod]

I do know the standard answer is to order from a guy in England (Leese??)--but there has to be something easier that that!!

Actually, I can't imagine that there is anything easier than that. A couple of minutes ordering online and it shows up in your mailbox a couple of days later.

 

That's assuming the goal is to get bushing felt - rather than the thrill of the chase, hunting down exactly what it is and where it comes from. Even then, it's still probably easier just to ask David Leese what it is and where it comes from.

 

The red 'felt'? bushing built into my new concertina, 31 years ago, does a fine job and shows no signs whatsoever of deterioration. I was told that it was the self-same material which at that time was, and may still be used for the number-one-dress tunics of Her Majesty's Brigade of Guards. (Not the first time I have mentioned this little bit of trivia !)

[Michael Reid]

There used to be a piano factory in Queens. Was it Steinway?

Steinway still manufactures pianos in Astoria, New York, a neighborhood of Queens. The factory was featured in a 2007 documentary, Note by Note: The Making of Steinway L1037 -- highly recommended, and available in the U.S. and Canada through Netflix.

[Theo]

The material is called bushing felt in the piano trade too. It comes in various thickness, but for concertina bushing you usually need the thinnest, .85mm is ideal, but 1mm can be used, but you may need to ream out the holes for the button bushings if you use the 1mm material. The last time i bought some from a UK piano parts supplier the price was about £200 per metre, and the roll width 1.4m. For concertina repairs you may want to ask for offcuts.

[Guest HallelujahAl!]

For concertina repairs you may want to ask for offcuts.

Yep, I have a supplier who occasionally is able to give me offcuts - but as Theo says, it really should be the thinner/harder grade. I've just finished bushing the holes on the wooden endframe of a 48 key English,as well as re-bushing the buttons, and it's a complete and utter pain of a job to do. I also use old paint brushes to help ream out the felt. It's a strangely satisfying job when completed however - almost as good as that 'finished tuning' feeling.

[shelly0312]

A further question in the same vein: is the felting used for all three applictions in a concertina (end plate bushing, key cross-hole bushing, and the little felt damper circle for under the key) the same felt? or does each use have a different specified thickness? thanks for helping me understand!! most sincerely Michelle SE Wis

Edited November 20, 2010 by shelly0312

[Guest HallelujahAl!]

A further question in the same vein: is the felting used for all three applictions in a concertina (end plate bushing, key cross-hole bushing, and the little felt damper circle for under the key) the same felt? or does each use have a different specified thickness? thanks for helping me understand!! most sincerely Michelle SE Wis

I use the same where necessary. Although I prefer to use soft leather, I use a hole punch on a suitable strip of leather to make my own dampers.

AL

[varney]

I'm pleased to see my question has evoked some interesting discussion on the subject of bushing felt. Thanks for all the helpful advice, though I'm still looking for the name of a company in NY city where my friend could get some good piano felt.

 

Al - your suggestion of a piano company who do off-cuts sounds spot on. What size pieces do you manage to get and for roughly what price?

 

Michael.

[Steve_freereeder]

Stop mucking about trying to find bits of off-cuts from piano repairers. My recommendation for bushing felt would be to order the real proper stuff from David Leese in North Wales.

0.85 mm thick, 2" x 6" pieces red or black, £3:00 each, so it's not particularly expensive, even when you add shipping costs. I think one piece would do about 30 holes.

 

 

David is very prompt at fulfilling orders and will ship to the US.

http://concertina-sp.../spareslist.htm

Scroll to about 3/4 the way down the page.

 

People on the western side of the mid-Atlantic Ridge - please remember that Wales is a country in its own right. It is not part of England. The Welsh get very upset when you try to tell them that it is.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Steve_freereeder

[PaulN]

I concur. And one piece is definitely more than enough to do TWO 48 stud concertinas, both key bushes and key cross-hole bushes.

[malcolmbebb]

This is weird. I was planning to start a thread asking why bushing felt is different from the stuff you can buy in Hobbycraft, logged in and found this very recent thread...

 

Toying with the idea of getting a doer-upper.

 

 

PS is there any good info on the net on bushing a box?

Edited November 30, 2010 by malcolmbee

[Theo]

You need to buy a copy of the Concertina Maintenance Manual