tzirtzi Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hello all Having played for about 7 months, I'm finding myself pushing against the limits of the Jackie EC - the lack of the top of the range means many violin pieces are awkward, and I'm spending a lot of effort learning fingering for difficult keys that would be comparatively easy with the extra accidentals of a traditional EC. So I'm thinking of upgrading. I've identified this Lachenal in Hobgoblin Bristol, which is close to where I live when not at university. It's a rosewood 48 key, bone buttons, brass reeds and a 5-fold bellows. I think it's just what I'm looking for - it has the extra range and extra accidentals, and I'm looking for a quieter concertina to minimise annoyance caused to flatmates by incessant playing so brass reeds should be appropriate. The Hobgoblin staff report that it is in tune at concert pitch and is fully working, but don't know the serial number. I hope to be able to go to the shop to try it out next week some time. What I wanted advice on is - when trying it out, what should I be looking for? I've only ever played the one concertina, so I won't be able to compare it to much. Is anything likely to be wrong with an antique concertina that might not be immediately obvious? Also, is the price - £800 - reasonable? Again, I have little to compare it with - concertinas on ebay almost always need work, so aren't very equivalent. Thanks -tzirtzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Hi It looks as tho' they have a couple more concertinas in Bristol so, if nothing else you should be able to play more than just the one you mentioned. chris Edited June 9, 2009 by chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike byrne Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hi, The extra holes drilled in the fretted ends would put me off. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 For price comparison, I would suggest contacting Chris Algar at Barleycorn Concertinas to see what he's currently charging for comparable Lachenals. If it's not too geographically inconvenient you might want to pay him a visit as well to see what he's got available. Daniel Hello all Having played for about 7 months, I'm finding myself pushing against the limits of the Jackie EC - the lack of the top of the range means many violin pieces are awkward, and I'm spending a lot of effort learning fingering for difficult keys that would be comparatively easy with the extra accidentals of a traditional EC. So I'm thinking of upgrading. I've identified this Lachenal in Hobgoblin Bristol, which is close to where I live when not at university. It's a rosewood 48 key, bone buttons, brass reeds and a 5-fold bellows. I think it's just what I'm looking for - it has the extra range and extra accidentals, and I'm looking for a quieter concertina to minimise annoyance caused to flatmates by incessant playing so brass reeds should be appropriate. The Hobgoblin staff report that it is in tune at concert pitch and is fully working, but don't know the serial number. I hope to be able to go to the shop to try it out next week some time. What I wanted advice on is - when trying it out, what should I be looking for? I've only ever played the one concertina, so I won't be able to compare it to much. Is anything likely to be wrong with an antique concertina that might not be immediately obvious? Also, is the price - £800 - reasonable? Again, I have little to compare it with - concertinas on ebay almost always need work, so aren't very equivalent. Thanks -tzirtzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzirtzi Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hi It looks as tho' they have a couple more concertinas in Bristol so, if nothing else you should be able to play more than just the one you mentioned. chris Thanks, that's a good suggestion - it hadn't occurred to me that I could ask to try an instrument even if I couldn't afford to actually buy it Hi,The extra holes drilled in the fretted ends would put me off. Mike Hmm. Yes, I see those - I had assumed that they were just part of the design of the fretwork. Is there any obvious reason someone would drill extra holes in the fretwork? For price comparison, I would suggest contacting Chris Algar at Barleycorn Concertinas to see what he's currently charging for comparable Lachenals. If it's not too geographically inconvenient you might want to pay him a visit as well to see what he's got available.Daniel Thanks for the suggestion, I'll email him. It's a bit far to go to actually visit - a good 3 hour drive - but I'll see how things go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hello all Having played for about 7 months, I'm finding myself pushing against the limits of the Jackie EC - the lack of the top of the range means many violin pieces are awkward, and I'm spending a lot of effort learning fingering for difficult keys that would be comparatively easy with the extra accidentals of a traditional EC. So I'm thinking of upgrading. I've identified this Lachenal in Hobgoblin Bristol, which is close to where I live when not at university. It's a rosewood 48 key, bone buttons, brass reeds and a 5-fold bellows. I think it's just what I'm looking for - it has the extra range and extra accidentals, and I'm looking for a quieter concertina to minimise annoyance caused to flatmates by incessant playing so brass reeds should be appropriate. The Hobgoblin staff report that it is in tune at concert pitch and is fully working, but don't know the serial number. I hope to be able to go to the shop to try it out next week some time. What I wanted advice on is - when trying it out, what should I be looking for? I've only ever played the one concertina, so I won't be able to compare it to much. Is anything likely to be wrong with an antique concertina that might not be immediately obvious? Also, is the price - £800 - reasonable? Again, I have little to compare it with - concertinas on ebay almost always need work, so aren't very equivalent. Thanks -tzirtzi There will always be substantial risk and gamble attached to the purchase of any complex antique mechanism. You are wise to be proceeding with caution. In answer to your question, I would think that there could well be, in your own words, " imperfections that might not be immediately obvious", and there may be no realistic opportunity to fully investigate all such possibilities before purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Also, is the price - £800 - reasonable? Again, I have little to compare it with - concertinas on ebay almost always need work, so aren't very equivalent. That does seem on the high side for a brass reeded Lachenal, but maybe it plays like a dream. For that price I would it should have all new pads and valves, and be spot on in tune. A quick check that you can do for tuning is to play octaves, there should be no beat or tremolo, and the sound should be the same whether you are pulling or pushing the bellows. C is a good note to start with cos the C buttons are red. Other note names are marked on the buttons so you can quickly check all the octaves. Also try playing fifths which in most cases means two adjacent buttons on the same vertical row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzirtzi Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 There will always be substantial risk and gamble attached to the purchase of any complex antique mechanism. You are wise to be proceeding with caution. In answer to your question, I would think that there could well be, in your own words, " imperfections that might not be immediately obvious", and there may be no realistic opportunity to fully investigate all such possibilities before purchase. Well, it may come down to just having to trust that Hobgoblin will have had an expert look at it... But it's becoming clearer to me that I probably shouldn't just go in, try, and buy without having looked around a bit more generally and made sure of everything. That does seem on the high side for a brass reeded Lachenal, but maybe it plays like a dream. For that price I would it should have all new pads and valves, and be spot on in tune. A quick check that you can do for tuning is to play octaves, there should be no beat or tremolo, and the sound should be the same whether you are pulling or pushing the bellows. C is a good note to start with cos the C buttons are red. Other note names are marked on the buttons so you can quickly check all the octaves. Also try playing fifths which in most cases means two adjacent buttons on the same vertical row. Thanks, that's useful to know. I may see if I can persuade my girlfriend to come along - as a guitar and cello player she has a better ear for tuning than I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_freereeder Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Looking at the label on the photo (I had to enlarge it to read it), the description in usual Hobgoblin Concertina Speak is: BB RE 5F SR CP which translates as: bone buttons, rosewood ends, 5-fold bellows, steel reeds, concert pitch. So if the labelling is correct, it has steel and not brass reeds. Mind you, I also think the label says '68-key' when of course it should read '48-key'. It's not entirely clear, but if the number of keys is stated incorrectly, it's possible the reed material is also incorrectly described. I also don't like the look of the extra holes that someone has drilled in the fretwork ends. It looks as if it has been done in an attempt to increase the volume (which again suggests it might have quieter brass reeds). Worth going for a look and try it out, but be cautious. See if you can get them to open it up so you can see the state of the innards and verify whether the reeds are brass or steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzirtzi Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Looking at the label on the photo (I had to enlarge it to read it), the description in usual Hobgoblin Concertina Speak is:BB RE 5F SR CP which translates as: bone buttons, rosewood ends, 5-fold bellows, steel reeds, concert pitch. So if the labelling is correct, it has steel and not brass reeds. Mind you, I also think the label says '68-key' when of course it should read '48-key'. It's not entirely clear, but if the number of keys is stated incorrectly, it's possible the reed material is also incorrectly described. I also don't like the look of the extra holes that someone has drilled in the fretwork ends. It looks as if it has been done in an attempt to increase the volume (which again suggests it might have quieter brass reeds). Worth going for a look and try it out, but be cautious. See if you can get them to open it up so you can see the state of the innards and verify whether the reeds are brass or steel. I hadn't realised that there was a larger version of the image... having found it, I agree with your reading. I went back to find the place I original read "brass reeds" (their secondhand catalogue), but couldn't find it any more - so either I misread that originally or they've also noticed that it was a mistake and changed it. Either way, if it does turn out to have steel reeds and/or the drilled holes in the end successfully make it much louder then it may not be the kind of instrument I'm looking for anyway... I will ask whether I can look inside it, but I can imagine that that might be a problematic request if the people in the shop at the time aren't concertina experts specifically! Thanks for the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Looking at the label on the photo (I had to enlarge it to read it), the description in usual Hobgoblin Concertina Speak is:BB RE 5F SR CP which translates as: bone buttons, rosewood ends, 5-fold bellows, steel reeds, concert pitch. So if the labelling is correct, it has steel and not brass reeds. Mind you, I also think the label says '68-key' when of course it should read '48-key'. It's not entirely clear, but if the number of keys is stated incorrectly, it's possible the reed material is also incorrectly described. I also don't like the look of the extra holes that someone has drilled in the fretwork ends. It looks as if it has been done in an attempt to increase the volume (which again suggests it might have quieter brass reeds). Worth going for a look and try it out, but be cautious. See if you can get them to open it up so you can see the state of the innards and verify whether the reeds are brass or steel. I hadn't realised that there was a larger version of the image... having found it, I agree with your reading. I went back to find the place I original read "brass reeds" (their secondhand catalogue), but couldn't find it any more - so either I misread that originally or they've also noticed that it was a mistake and changed it. Either way, if it does turn out to have steel reeds and/or the drilled holes in the end successfully make it much louder then it may not be the kind of instrument I'm looking for anyway... I will ask whether I can look inside it, but I can imagine that that might be a problematic request if the people in the shop at the time aren't concertina experts specifically! Thanks for the advice The extra holes in the ends, which appear to have been drilled at a later date, were presumably added to increase volume ( why else ? ). If a previous owner was so hell bent on increasing the volume I guess the intrument may have been subjected to some excessively hard labour in it's time. Concertinas were never designed to fill the Albert Hall or Wembley Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Concertinas were never designed to fill the Albert Hall or Wembley Stadium. That is true. However, to my amazement, I have found the Albert Hall to have really bad acoustics, despite having been pupose built for the job. The three South Bank halls are much better. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The extra holes in the ends, which appear to have been drilled at a later date, were presumably added to increase volume ( why else ? ). If a previous owner was so hell bent on increasing the volume I guess the intrument may have been subjected to some excessively hard labour in it's time. Concertinas were never designed to fill the Albert Hall or Wembley Stadium. Exactly -- the owner was probably trying to see how many holes it would take to fill the Albert Hall. Actually, I doubt the added holes have much effect at all, besides making it look slightly butchered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hi tzirtzi, I have sent you a PM. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_boveri Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Thanks for the suggestion, I'll email him. It's a bit far to go to actually visit - a good 3 hour drive - but I'll see how things go. maybe it's cuz i'm an american and our country is so big... but i think that 3 hours is not too far to visit. if i was going to make a purchase like that, i think that a 3 hour trip would be worth the effort to avoid possibly wasting 800 quid. heck... if there was a concertina-man like chris 3 hours away, i would be doing whatever i could to visit a couple times a year. but maybe that's cuz i have an addiction, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hi David, look at the price of fuel in England it can also be a factor chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguaro_squeezer Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That's true, Chris but can't you chaps just take the train everywhere? Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That's true, Chris but can't you chaps just take the train everywhere? Rod The train in the UK is very expensive but it does go to most places; although not always late enough when one is in the sticks.. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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