Alan Day Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 During my few years of concertina repairing I came across reeds (mainly base ones) that had been screwed down front and rear.A little scallop or half moon on the tip and similar on the base held the reed to prevent it going sideways.These reeds normally seemed to replace squeekers or whistles which although great fun for about ten minutes are rarely ever played except perhaps in a music hall tune.The reed pan was slotted to allow air to pass through the reed, but was not dovetailed .This enabled reeds to be put into tight areas or central to the reed pan.Have any of you come across this additional reed method and what are the disadvantages? In general I found them to be a useful addition. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Worrall Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 During my few years of concertina repairing I came across reeds (mainly base ones) that had been screwed down front and rear.A little scallop or half moon on the tip and similar on the base held the reed to prevent it going sideways.These reeds normally seemed to replace squeekers or whistles which although great fun for about ten minutes are rarely ever played except perhaps in a music hall tune.The reed pan was slotted to allow air to pass through the reed, but was not dovetailed .This enabled reeds to be put into tight areas or central to the reed pan.Have any of you come across this additional reed method and what are the disadvantages? In general I found them to be a useful addition.Al Alan, Several makers of hybrids employ that method of screwing down their (accordion) reeds, among them Harold Herrington and (I think) Frank Edgley and Bob Tedrow. The tab at the base of the underside reed helps position it on the reed slot, and the screws do the rest. The Morse Ceili, from its photos on the Button Box site, employs a type of accordion wax to hold them down (which is the classic way most accordion makers use). Both methods work very well, from what I've seen. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Both methods [waxed and screwed-down] work very well, from what I've seen.They both have their own drawbacks too. One of the problems with the screw-down method is that it can change the pitch of the reed depending on how hard it is screwed down and the type of gasket between the plate and pan. The greater the cush the more variable the pitch and pressure. No gasketing - as inboard concertina reeds tend to be - make them quite pitch-stable. Felted paper is every bit as good (many accordions around 1900 used this technique) for pitch stability and probably better in air seal. Then comes a thin leather split, thread (sometimes waxed), yarn, thicker leather, and the worst - rubber, and then foam gaskets. Several Stagi models have foam gaskets which makes them so incredibly difficult to tune. Often rather than filing them to pitch we can tune them just by how tightly we screw the reedplates down! -- Rich -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 During my few years of concertina repairing I came across reeds (mainly base ones) that had been screwed down front and rear.A little scallop or half moon on the tip and similar on the base held the reed to prevent it going sideways.These reeds normally seemed to replace squeekers or whistles which although great fun for about ten minutes are rarely ever played except perhaps in a music hall tune.The reed pan was slotted to allow air to pass through the reed, but was not dovetailed .This enabled reeds to be put into tight areas or central to the reed pan.Have any of you come across this additional reed method and what are the disadvantages? In general I found them to be a useful addition.Al I once did some minor repairs on a good traditional concertina made by one of the older companies, (don't remember which ). it had a few inboard reeds being a 39 key or something like that, and while all the outer reeds were in standard dovetails, the inboard ones were screwed down. You couldn't tell the difference in sound between the two methods. I didn't like the use of wood screws, only because of the remote problem of the holes wearing if the reed was removed a lot. That really isn't much of an issue though. On my concertinas I use a captive nut on the back side of the reed pan and a machine screw. I've seen inboard reeds mounted in sloped dovetails that angled down into the reed pan, allowing the reed to be removed even though it didn't have access to the outer rim. They worked well too. With a concertina reed you really don't need a gasket since they are so narrow, and the solid contact makes detuning not much of an issue. Dana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted June 7, 2007 Author Share Posted June 7, 2007 I remember that there was certainly no gaskets in between the reed and the reed pan and the screws were brass countersunk screws put in at a very slight angle so the head of the screw just nipped the reed tight .It was certainly never tightly screwed down.Thanks for an interesting point Richard. I have never looked inside the modern concertinas Dan, but I remember my Hohner Melodion reeds were waxed into position. A small point in passing from my engineering days, never use steel screws with brass or aluminium it causes electrolytics and creats corrosion. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 A small point in passing from my engineering days, never use steel screws with brass or aluminium it causes electrolytics and creats corrosion.Al I remember a long thread on this subject. It can't be taken lightly, but most vintage instruments including well over a hundred year old ones have steel reeds in brass shoes with brass clamp blocks held down by steel screws. Later ones may have aluminum shoes with steel reeds. Other factors have to come into play (to provide an actual electrolyte) to move a potential problem into an actual one. When they occur, you can indeed have a problem. Brass screws have their place, but especially in small diameters, are somewhat prone to shearing off when they are tightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Edgley Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Rich: " No gasketing - as inboard concertina reeds tend to be - make them quite pitch-stable." Frank: When I started making concertinas around seven years ago, I spoke to Colin Dipper on the phone about it. His recommendation was to use a gasket between the reed and reed pan, "for better tone." Italian and English reeds have different characteristics, and should be dealt with differently. I told him I was doing just that, not just for tone, but for a better seal, ensuring the maximum efficiency of the reed. I use a leather made for the purpose, and obtain it from an organ supply outlet. Tuning has not been a problem. However, I suppose that some materials could be used that would cause a problem. It could also be the quality of the Stagi reeds which adds to the situation, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 During my few years of concertina repairing I came across reeds (mainly base ones) that had been screwed down front and rear.A little scallop or half moon on the tip and similar on the base held the reed to prevent it going sideways.These reeds normally seemed to replace squeekers or whistles which although great fun for about ten minutes are rarely ever played except perhaps in a music hall tune.The reed pan was slotted to allow air to pass through the reed, but was not dovetailed .This enabled reeds to be put into tight areas or central to the reed pan.Have any of you come across this additional reed method and what are the disadvantages? In general I found them to be a useful addition.Al I have seen tis form of mounting on Jeffreys Anglos and Duets. My Lachenal Baritone bottom end reeds are surface mounted this way. On the big reeds I find that distortion in the very long reed frames can cause catching if tightened fully 'fore & aft'. I tighter the clamp end fully, and then the tip end, backing it back off a little if there is a problem. If needs-be I shim the tip end with glued paper between the underside of the frame and the reed pan. the only other draw backs tend to be that the inboard chambers are often too small for proper resonance and the reeds seem less powerful Dave E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inventor Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Over the years I have looked inside a large number of traditionaly made concertinas and have come across many with screwed on reed-frames. Firstly none of them had gaskets of any kind. of the rest there are two classes of concertinas where the screwed on reeds had slightly different reasons. 1) Crabb and Jeffries concertinas. Both these makes use of (Crabb Usually and Jeffries always) parelel sided tone chambers eg. typical 6" Jeffries Anglo 8 up, 8 down which gives 16 tone chambers on each side sufficient for 30 Key but the larger ones also have 1 or 3 sideways and 1 to 4 screwed down in the middle of the plate to give up to 44 keys in the same size of concertina. Crabb made a number of 45 crane duets for the Salvation Army in the standard 6.25" size with 20 buttons on the left 8 up 8 down and 4 screwed down in the middle (Tenor c to g') and with narrower tone chambers on the right hand side 9 up 9 down and 7 screwed down in the middle of the plate (middle c' to c"'). These are described in detail elsewhere on concertina.net. All of the larger Jeffries Duetts and Crabb made Duets that I have seen had a number of reed frames screwed down as described earlier (tapered reed frame and half moons cut out at the ends). the timbre of the note is different from the dovetailed reedframes, but seems to settle down after a while of regular playing to be hardly noticible. 2) Large Wheatstone Duet concertinas. Here screwed down reeds were used the lowest notes in the lower octave; BassC to F# at least, and in some cases the whole octave from Bass C up to B. The reed frames are rectangular and extended to have screw holes at each end. I have only come across one Lachenel Duet which had a screwed on reed; this was a loe Eb replacing the Low F# on a 72 button Maccann, which was on a little box on the inside of the bellows. Inventor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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