Some Beginner Questions:

[jamesmason06]

Hi Concertina.net,

 

So I'm a beginner player, an have recently bought a C/G 30 button Anglo Concertina. I'm enjoying learning it despite initial slow progress, but have some questions in regards to a few things that are confusing me. I should preface this by saying please excuse any incorrect terminology/assumptions or stupid questions, I'm starting from absolute square 1. 

 

1) My first question is about the the layout of the notes on sheet music, and on the keys of the concertina. On my concertina, some of the notes next to each other on the leys are not next to each other when written on sheet music, and vice versa. For example, Note 5, pulled on row C of my left hand is G. One of the notes next to it however (Note 4 on the same row) is also a G, this is confusing as these 2 notes would be nowhere near each other on sheet music? Similarly, in the key of C when written on sheet music, the pushed G which would be played on my right hand is note 3 of row C, and the next note (the pulled A) is note 2 of row G. Not to mention the fact that to play certain keys, you have to switch hands? Is there an intuitive pattern behind this this layout of Notes, or do I simply have to remember a rather illogical layout? 

 

2) My seconded question is also similar. I am confused by the roles of the clefs. On a Piano, for example, I believe that each clef is effectively just detailing what side of middle C that set of notes is, and it is therefore an even split with the amount of notes a part of each clef, when playing a piano. However on my concertina it appears that every note on the right hand and half on the left side, is under the treble clef? Could this be explained? 

 

3) Thirdly is a question about the speed of play. Most of the songs in the books I'm learning out of are Irish folk songs and are played very fast. Is there a trick and how to play at an adequate speed (no doubt practice), as I'm finding it difficult to even move the bellows quick enough. Also, while I'm not at this stage in playing yet, it won't damage the instrument if multiple keys are played at the same time?

 

Thank you for reading and apologies if anything sounds particularly stupid, like I said at the start I'm a complete beginner to concertina, and music generally (I'v played a little piano and ukulele but only the basics). I look forward to improving and practicing more. Thanks!

[Leah Velleman]

You're not imagining things. The note layout really is very different from on a piano, and it's not "low notes on the left hand, high notes on the right hand." There are some patterns — it's not just random. But when you're starting, you do just need to learn it button by button. 

 

Start with just a few buttons. For Irish music, you don't need the very low or very high notes, or most of the accidentals, so don't worry about those. Your book probably teaches you to play using the C and G rows, which is a good habit to get in eventually: it makes it easier to play quickly and smoothly. But to start with, you could just limit yourself to the G row and play some simple tunes in G that way. (Historically, a lot of Irish musicians did just play on a single row like this, and it's pretty intuitive and easy to learn.) Then move on to playing across rows when you're ready.

 

Playing fast is hard. The trick is to start by getting good at playing slowly. It feels counterintuitive, but if you try to play quickly all the time, it will slow you down, because you will be tense and awkward. Play slowly until you are relaxed and using your hands efficiently. Then, gradually ramp up the speed.  

[Roo boy]

1) The layout is logical, but I agree it is baffling to a beginner. 

 

When playing on the C row, all the notes on the push are notes of the C chord. So press any three adjacent buttons and you get a C chord. 

 

Similar concept for the G row, all notes on the push are notes from the G chord.

On the G row, all the pull notes are the notes in between the lines of the treble cleff (F,A,C,E, only the F is sharp, as it should be in key of G).

There is a vaguely similar pattern on the C row, although on the C row the pattern flips from push to pull when notes shift from left to right side (the FACE, EGBDF patterns are visible, just inverts to pull/push when changing sides).

 

The layout on both C and G row also makes a lot of sense when playing 'octave style'. The concertina was designed specifically for this style, so it is not surprising.

 

The top row is admittedly fairly random. Top row is just a bunch of other helpful notes.

 

 

Edited March 25 by Roo boy

[David Barnert]

As to question 2, pianos can play 88 different notes, 39 below below middle C and 48 above middle C. Concertinas can play only a small fraction of the notes that a piano can. And on a C/G Anglo, three quarters of the notes it can play are above middle C, so the music is generally written in the treble clef, with only occasional (and optional) use of the bass clef.

[Roo boy]

The first button on the push on right hand side of C row is one octave above middle C. If you follow the buttons up or down the row, with some exceptions on the extremity of the left side, it follows the C major scale.

The G row follows the same pattern, just transposed up to the key of G

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Anglo 30 key certainly has an odd layout to beginners - with duplicate notes on different rows, and other things.  Think of it in those 'rows' of buttons rather than a lot of 30 buttons all over the face of instrument can help to begin to make some sense of it.  Middle row in C major [ C and g model type] That upper row in G major - and then that other odd outer row with flats and sharps on [ useful later on for advanced keys to play in].

Lowest note is lovely and so deep [ Bass C  one octave below middle C as regards on a piano keyboard!] Take time to learn and do not give in if progress seems slow at first.  I learned in very basic books and using flute or recorder based transcriptions in books to get going - eventually improvising chords as I progressed later on.  You do not have to play fast pieces as slow pieces of music can take skill to sustain as well.  I would say, learn the melody mostly at this stage and then begin to think in chords as you advance, then you concentrate on getting to know which note is where.

I hold my concertina in an odd manner but it suits me personally and although I would not recommend you hold as I do [ hardly at all in my hands] - I did do a quick demo on my own YouTube channel a while back on how system works [ at a very basic level].  It is my own viewpoint from practical experience over many years now - have a watch in link below [if you like..?] Otherwise keep learning and, practicing and let everyone here see how you are getting on..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7cPEDR776k

 

Edited March 25 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Sue N]

Hi there - I'm also a beginner on the Anglo, just been learning for about three months now and am completely hooked! Like you, having previously played piano, I was a bit discombobulated by the layout of notes on the Anglo, but I also rather relished the challenge of learning to play something so different. As recommended above by Leah, I'm just learning the notes gradually as they crop up in tunes - and it's amazing how many great tunes you can play with just a few notes! I decided to get some online tuition and I'm doing the beginners' starter course with irishconcertinalessons.com (Caitlin Nic Gabhann). I'm finding that it's a really fantastic course that gets you playing loads of traditional Irish tunes really quickly. The Online Academy of Irish Music also has some courses and I think it offers a 14-day free trial. Personally, I've found it extremely helpful to get some guidance from an experienced player. Good luck with your new concertina - enjoy!

[jamesmason06]

Hi all, 

Thank you for all the great answers, it's very much appreciated from a learner and I look forward to practicing some more!

[alex_holden]

About playing fast: it may not be entirely down to your technique. If you are starting out with a low-end instrument, many of them simply don't respond quickly enough to allow you to play fast. Most beginners, if they aren't completely put off the instrument, quickly find themselves wanting to upgrade to something more mid-range.

 

You can't damage the instrument by playing multiple notes at once. Some playing styles particularly emphasise the use of chords. You will find though that the bellows run out of air faster than when playing in a single note melodic style.

[RAc]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:00 PM, jamesmason06 said:

3) Thirdly is a question about the speed of play. Most of the songs in the books I'm learning out of are Irish folk songs and are played very fast. Is there a trick and how to play at an adequate speed (no doubt practice), as I'm finding it difficult to even move the bellows quick enough

Aside from Alex's remarks, the simple answer, as you already found out, is drill. An invaluable tool for that is Michael Eskin's tune trainer, to be found at Michael Eskin's ABC Tools and discussed in this forum many times. You can set it to gradually  increase the speed of a tune you play along to from slow to unmanageable. Every brain has a pivot point at which playing along becomes impossible, but your goal is to push the pivot point out gradually. Make it a sport and reward yourself every time you can play along faster than last time.    

[wunks]

I find it helpful to slow a fast tune way down to the point of accuracy.  Play a jig as a waltz.  Curiously, this works  the other way 'round, a waltz as a jig.  It seems to dislodge one's playing from the brains executive function...😊

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

In my own personal opinion - often you can be flexible, as regards tempo indications, [unless number is indicated on a metronome ] so Allegro could be quite rapid, or even moderately played, and so on.. depending upon how you interpret music at that point.  You can use a slight 'rubato' [ mild pause on a note]  on certain notes to emphasise a feeling or stress a note,  which also gives a micro second extra space to get ready for more quick moments ahead n a piece.

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

41 minutes ago, wunks said:

I find it helpful to slow a fast tune way down to the point of accuracy.  Play a jig as a waltz.  Curiously, this works  the other way 'round, a waltz as a jig.  It seems to dislodge one's playing from the brains executive function...😊

..... and a hornpipe and a reel..... and vice versa.

[wunks]

7 minutes ago, Stephen DOUGLASS said:

..... and a hornpipe and a reel..... and vice versa.

I actually discovered this by speeding up a sarabande to a jig to shorten practice time.

[jamesmason06]

Hi again, 

Another question if anyone is still reading this thread. Roo Boy's comments above have been very helpful in understanding the layout of the instrument. However, I'm still a little confused about the layout of some of the notes.

 

I'll attach a photo for reference but my problem is that I now understand the positioning of the notes in the centre of the concertina on rows C & G and on column 1, 2 and 3. However I can't link in my head where the other notes on the concertina link to the linear group of notes I have highlighted.

 

Another question concerns the accidentals row. Where do these notes fall in regards to the core linear group of notes in the centre of the concertina, I can't work out the role of the non sharp or flat notes on the accidental row. 

 

Thirdly, in the book I'm learning from, the G major key doesn't make use of the notes of the notes of G & F on the 3C coordinates on the right hand side. I understand that it must include Fsharp but then what is the relation of that F and G in relation to all the other notes.

 

Fourthly, is is what notes on this chart would be considered below the middle C, and therefore use the bass clef?

 

Sorry for the overload in questions, I'm having trouble getting it straight in my head where the different notes on the keys are placed on the sheet music. Thanks!

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Oh you do have a lot of questions😊😊. But do not let things worry you too much as you will eventually understand  the instrument  and it will all become second nature soon enough.

As for notes on bass clef ..there are several on concertina  below middle C placed here and there, including low B flat and A below that, and a wonderful deeeeeep. Bass C at lower button 1 on left side ( C major middle row).  Sounds like a steam ship leaving port sounding the horn!

Hard to explain it all in a few words, but some nice deep notes for left hand to use alongside the treble notes🌝🌝

[Matthew Heumann]

A few things for beginners to keep in mind:

1- We all started slow (& awkward).

2- It's always better to play well, then get faster (fast & sloppy, not good)

3- No matter how good your instrument is, until your bellows use becomes automatic & intuitive your playing will be inhibited (like learning to fill the bag on pipes).

4- How do you get to Carnegie Hall (yeh, it old & corny) Answer: practice, practice, practice!

5- As far as learning music theory: It's good if you understand it, But after 50+ years I'm still trying to (but don't let it get in the way).

 

Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hjcjones]

The anglo keyboard, or at least the two main rows, has a logic, but it is not the logic of a piano keyboard.  If you play along the row, starting with C (left hand C3) and going up to right hand C4 you have a scale of C spanning two octaves . The same sequence on the G row, starting on LH G3 will give you the scale of G.  

 

As you play some piano you may already understand that the keys of C and G contain mostly the same notes, the only difference being F and F#. Apart from those, all the notes in the key of C can be found on the G row, and those in the key of G also appear in the C row, often in the other bellows direction. Unlike the piano, where each note refers only to one key, a note can be found on more than one button and often in either direction. This gives you a number of different choices, including the option of playing a phrase of music in either direction.  Which choice is the most efficient depends on the tune, and what notes come before and after that particular note. This may appear confusing, but it is actually quite intuitive to play once you become familiar with it.

 

The G1 on the right hand is the same note as C3. I suspect the reason your book suggests G1 for playing in G is because that button also has the F#, which is part of the key of G. You could also use C3 but that might not be as efficient, as you would have to change finger as well as bellows direction to go from F# to G.  

 

The notes on the accidental row which aren't sharps or flats offer alternative options for some important notes. For example, that same G which is on both G1 and C3 on the push is also on the accidental row as a pulled note (Ac3 on the layout shown). On the left hand the push G found on both LH C1 and LH G3 is also a pulled note on LH Ac2. 

 

This can be useful when you want to change bellows direction. After a run of notes mainly on the push it might be better to play the next phrase on the pull rather than run out of air.  However you should be aware that the accidental rows can vary considerably from one instrument to another.  Your book appears to show the Jeffries layout (which is often preferred for Irish music) but you may find your own instrument is different.

 

The bass clef isn't much used for anglo concertina music. This is partly because most tunes lie in the treble clef and the lower notes tend to be part of the accompaniment rather than the melody.  Often only the melody itself is transcribed, and other notes are shown only as tablature, if at all. It is unusual for a chorded accompaniment to be fully scored.  Finally, many anglo players have little or no musical training and struggle to read even the treble clef, so asking them to decipher the bass clef would just cause confusion.

 

You should look at the excellent "anglo piano" website, compiled by Luke Hillman who is a regular contributor.  This shows the notes in relation to a piano keyboard and may make more sense to you. It also covers different keyboard layouts, as the accidental rows are not always the same, and some instruments have more than 30 buttons.

 

Anglo Piano