Unusual ? or not ??

[Sprunghub]

Is this a Wicki (Hayden)  Lachenal ? 

 

https://portal-images.azureedge.net/auctions-2020/srma10101/images/a09ea5b5-e941-43fa-9ba4-ac2a01035f82.jpg

[Peter Smith]

I have enquired to see whether it is unisonoric or bisonoric.

I wondered if it was a strange anglo following a recent thread on concertina.net.

 

Peter

 

[Stephen Chambers]

Without trying it I'd hesitate to say what it might, or might not, be. But the handstraps bear the Maccann duet "patent number 4752" - whilst the button array is only five wide, rather than six like a Wicki layout, and Brian Hayden didn't come into the picture until more than 50 years after this concertina was made...

 

It may even have been an unsuccessful "one-off" made for somebody and never played, especially when you see it appears to be in "mint" condition.

[gcoover]

My guess is Jeffries Duet, based on 68-button Wheatstone #30740, although this is the only 5-row one I've ever seen (see attached photo).

 

I'd be curious to see the left side of this Lachenal (the Wheatstone only has 4 rows on the left side).

 

In talking with Chris Algar while writing the Jeffries Duet Tutor, he said to his knowledge Lachenal had never made a Jeffries Duet, "but everything turns up eventually". Perhaps this it?

 

Gary

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by gcoover
corrected the serial number

[Stephen Chambers]

6 hours ago, gcoover said:

My guess is Jeffries Duet, based on 68-button Wheatstone #30374, although this is the only 5-row one I've ever seen (see attached photo).

 

Wheatstone #30374 is listed in the legers as a 61-key "A G. Duet" - that is to say a large Anglo with a 5th row of low duet/drone notes.

 

Or are you thinking of Jim Harvey's 68-key one, #30740, that started out as an "A.G. Duet" made in October 1925, and got converted to a Jeffries Duet by J.A. Travers in 1951?

 

Of course, this Lachenal could turn out to be a Lachenal version of an "A.G. Duet"... 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Stephen Chambers

[Anglogeezertoo]

If any one wants to bid its here  ...  https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/martin-and-pole/catalogue-id-srma10101/lot-a5b95e01-7a0d-4243-97f5-ac2a00edc6d2

 

the sale  is on the 9th September & the current bid is   ..... Wait for it!!! ....... £180

 

In contrast here is a 55 key Jeffries Crane system    ...  https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/rogersjones/catalogue-id-rogers10298/lot-fdb33d17-930b-44d5-9fae-ac2200b45020

 

opening bid  ...  £1,200

 

Jake

[gcoover]

Sorry for any confusion, I corrected the serial number of the Wheatstone instrument in the photo to #30740. It was built on Oct 1925 and listed as "A.G. Duet N.P. R.E." in the ledgers and is obviously a Jeffries Duet with nickel plated raised ends. I think the story of a later conversion is incorrect since it appears to have been a duet from the beginning.

 

Wheatstone #30374 is owned by Greg Jowaisas and it is definitely a 61-button Jeffries Duet that was listed in the ledgers as "A.G. Duet N.P.  R.E.  Octo", Nov 1924. Based on other Jeffries Duets built by Wheatstone, I'm pretty sure they called the Jeffries Duet system an "A.G. Duet", in the same way they never used the word "Maccann" - don't give the competitors any advantage! Looks like Wheatstone only made 10 Jeffries Duets total between 1922 and 1930. There are a couple of other ledger listings that might be Jeffries Duets, but there is no way to know without seeing the actual instruments.

 

Gavin Davenport once owned an unusual Anglo that had a lower row of drone notes, and it was listed as a 50-button "A.G. Octo Black", #30998, in April 1926, but was never a duet.

 

I'll throw a bid at this Lachenal, and if successful I'll let you all know. Here is what the Lachenal looks like.

 

 

Gary

 

 

 

  

[Richard Mellish]

I can see someone being tempted to buy it cheap and convert it to more-or-less Hayden, with new reed pans if necessary.

[gcoover]

Ok, it looks like Stephen was right on this one - the good folks at the auction house have sent me a photo of the left side, with this comment: "most keys play a different note on pulling and pushing". Obviously an unusual one-of-a-kind instrument that sure looks like a Jeffries Duet but apparently isn't - hope whoever gets this lets us know the layout. 

 

 

Gary

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by gcoover

[Richard Mellish]

I'm getting tempted to put in a bid, in the hope of getting my hands on it and thus (a) being able to tell everyone here what the actual notes are, and (b) assessing whether it might actually be a useful instrument as it stands or with a modicum of swapping around of reeds. Personally I wouldn't be interested in conversion to Hayden, having dabbled with that system but given up and stuck to Anglo.

 

Edit: I'm reminded that Gary has already bid, but if A N Other outbids him I might jump in.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Richard Mellish
Added another sentence

[Anglogeezertoo]

The hammer price for this was £1600

 

Jake

[Richard Mellish]

14 hours ago, Anglogeezertoo said:

The hammer price for this was £1600

 

Jake

And that was to me. I am collecting it this afternoon. I will report in due course.

 

PS. And thanks to Sprunghub for alerting us to it.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Richard Mellish
Adding PS

[Richard Mellish]

This is a very preliminary report. A full investigation will take me some time. I have established that the top three rows are similar to those of a 30 key C-G, with some extra buttons that are not the same as on a 40-key. So far I have made no sense of the rest. A few reeds are a bit wheezy but most seem OK.

[Richard Mellish]

Apologies to any of you who have been eagerly waiting to find out more about this beast. I started investigating it when I got home last Thursday but then became occupied with various unrelated stuff for the next few days.

 

I haven't yet opened it up to see what it's like inside and to identify two reeds that aren't sounding, but I can now attach a chart showing all the other notes. It's actually 55-key according to normal counting, the auctioneer's quoted 56 count including the air button. I am also attaching a chart for a 44/45 key Jeffries that Gary found and sent me. It does seem to be based on that, for example in the top button on the right-hand middle row being G#5 rather than F#6 as it would be on a Wheatstone or even a basic 20-key.

 

I have no idea what logic, if any, determined the additional notes. Some are "drones" with the same note on push and pull, which might have been intended for use as actual drones or for more choices for chords (as I use the left-hand thumb button on my G-D Wheatstone layout). One striking oddity is the duplication of the G6 push in the middle row, where it would be expected, and on the top row. If the note's there on the middle row, why would anyone reach up to the top row for the same note in the same direction? Also the left-hand end has a hole for a thumb button but nothing there.

 

I will report again when I've investigated the insides.

Lachenal 55.pdf Jeffries_key_layout-45-CG.pdf

[Stephen Chambers]

3 hours ago, Richard Mellish said:

I have no idea what logic, if any, determined the additional notes. Some are "drones" with the same note on push and pull, which might have been intended for use as actual drones or for more choices for chords ...

Lachenal 55.pdf 8.99 kB · 4 downloads Jeffries_key_layout-45-CG.pdf 32.07 kB · 2 downloads

 

In fact it appears to be what I suggested - an "AG Duet" like the Wheatstone ones I've seen, only made by Lachenal's...

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Stephen Chambers

[Richard Mellish]

38 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

In fact it appears to be what I suggested - an "AG Duet" like the Wheatstone ones I've seen, only made by Lachenal's...

 

 

 

Fair enough! But do you understand the logic?

[Stephen Chambers]

1 hour ago, Richard Mellish said:

Fair enough! But do you understand the logic?

 

Nope! Paul Davies had a big ebony-ended Aeola one 30-odd years ago, that was said to have been made for a boxer in the '20s, but we just found it unwieldy as an Anglo for playing Irish music.

 

There must have been people who understood them back then though, and this New Model one seems a much handier size than the one Paul had.

[David Barnert]

16 hours ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

In fact it appears to be what I suggested - an "AG Duet" like the Wheatstone ones I've seen, only made by Lachenal's...

 

Is this the only instance of the word “Duet” being applied to a bisonoric instrument? I’ve never run across it before.