Baritone/treble Aeola!

[Geoff Wooff]

On Ebay currently( 13th Oct 2014) is a Baritone/Treble Aeola with wooden ends, from 1922 , needing some tender care but appears to be in otherwise good condition.

 

Looks to me like a replacement 8 fold Bellows by Crabb with a case to match.

 

I have one so I'm not bidding but want to alert others to the possibillity of aquiring one of these .

 

Play it like a treble EC with the option of decending a further octave below which is great for harmonising whilst playing the melody at the same time in a 'normal' position..... The 56key version is the smallest Baritone /Treble at just 8" across and thus the most easily managed, just does not have the highest half octave of the Treble range.

 

Good hunting.

 

Geoff.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[SteveS]

I'm not sure from the pictures whether it is in normal position or offset one row with the middle C forward of its normal position under the centre of the left hand thumbstrap.

[Geoff Wooff]

I'm not sure from the pictures whether it is in normal position or offset one row with the middle C forward of its normal position under the centre of the left hand thumbstrap.

 

Comparing the pictures to my own B/T the straps appear to be in the same position... that is the upper side of the left hand thumb strap is in alignment with the centre line of the C button... likewise the right hand thumb strap aligns with its upper side level with the D button.

 

A difference with the Little Finger Plate positions .. the Ebay B/T has the upper end of the plates in line with the upper side of the straps... and my 1927 model has extra long plates that reach one row of buttons higher ie A on the right and G on the left ... about the position they would be on a normal Treble.

[SteveS]

Geoff

 

Having looked at the pictures again, I'm not so sure about the positions of the buttons/notes.

 

Left side:

 

- if the middle C is aligned with the centre axis of the thumbstrap (normal position), that would mean the button closest to the wrist is F - this is the same arrangement as on a TT

- the low D which aligns with open edge of the finger plate would then be consistent with a TT

 

Right side:

 

- the centre screw of the finger plate aligns with the B (below middle C, normal position) - assuming normal positions of the buttons, this would mean the lost note is Eb - again this is consistent with a TT

- if the buttons are in normal position, then the C (octave below middle C) is missing

 

My conclusion is that the buttons are shifted from normal position.

 

If they are shifted one row, then the right handside lowest note becomes Ab, with C (octave below middle) present under the thumbstrap. The left side will then have F aligned with the centre axis of the thumbstrap, and the lowest note on the left being a D.

 

What's confusing is that where'd I'd expect a low F on the right side, this button appears to be missing.

 

Is there something else going on? This is a large instrument for a BT - is it possible the buttons are shifted 2 places?

 

Steve

Edited October 14, 2014 by SteveS

[Geoff Wooff]

Well Steve,

No. 29395 is listed as a 56 key Baritone Treble of 8" (but the model number is 20A which is incorrect as it should be a model 14) and although the pictures are not taken exactly 'square-on' it looks to me to have its thumb straps in exactly the same positions as my BT. ??

[SteveS]

Thanks Geoff

It does appear to be consistent with a model 14, and offset by one row from the normal position in my opinion, from the pictures.

I'd really like a BT with no offset - with middle C in the normal position.

[Geoff Wooff]

Steve,

I can see your desire to have a BT with straps in the 'normal' position to aid 'instant positioning' when swaping instruments. My BT having extra long finger plates to bring the closed ends to the same position as on a Treble (or TT) does help with upper note reaching, even though it then positions hands at a slightly different angle . I'm sure it would not be difficult to move the thumb straps or create a sliding plate for mounting them.

 

It can be confusing when changing from 'normal' to the down shifted strap instrument.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi all.

This post a has been heavily edited.

 

Descriptive names for English models have varied over time and between makers and there can still be a lot of confusion deciphering the Wheatstone Æola descriptions in early pricelists.

 

In general, Æola:

 

Trebles range from G3 up,

 

Tenor –Trebles range from C3 up

 

Baritone –Trebles range from G2 up,

Not transposed or Treble extended down

 

Baritones range from G2 up.

Transposed or Baritone extended up

 

Note! On 56 button Baritone –Treble and Baritone models the lowest G#2 may be F2

 

Please see the attachment that may make the situation clearer (I hope).

 

 

 

Irrespective of the ledger entry, I believe that instrument No. 29395, the subject of this topic, is a Model 14 Baritone.-Treble The clue being the position of the top two buttons (one missing) in the picture available of the left-hand side.

 

Because the notes are not transposed, as Geoff says in his OP,

“Play it like a Treble EC with the option of descending a further octave below which is great for harmonising whilst playing the melody at the same time in a 'normal' position”

 

Geoffrey

Edited October 17, 2014 by Geoffrey Crabb

[SteveS]

Geoffrey

 

Many thanks for your input to the debate - and many thanks for the clarification of the different types of baritones.

 

As I suspected, the subject of this thread does appear to have the middle C shifted forward of its 'normal' position under the centre axis of the left hand thumbstrap.

My playing style is not to have the whole thumb through the strap, so to play this type of 'tina I think I'd have to adapt my fingering to suit.

 

Steve

[conzertino]

I doubt that it is a 20A baritone!

 

This is one ( 56 key baritone )

 

 

These are a 48 key baritone ( down to G ), a 64 key baritone ( down to F ) and a 64 key bass-baritone ( down to C )!

 

 

And these are three different baritone-trebles

 

 

We can ask Chris after the auction ended;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Geoff Wooff]

This is my 56 key Baritone Treble Aeola No. 31518 , a model 14 according to the Wheatstone ledgers.

 

Note the long finger plate and twisted thumb strap where my thumb is pushed right in to it.

 

Bottom note is G on the left side.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[JimLucas]

On Ebay currently( 13th Oct 2014) is a Baritone/Treble Aeola with wooden ends, from 1922 , needing some tender care but appears to be in otherwise good condition.

 

Is this auction already over? I can't find it.

 

How about a link or an eBay item number?

[JimLucas]

Still active. Here is the item Number, Jim: 281466203957.

 

Ah, but on eBay it's listed as a tenor-treble. One has to look up the serial number in the ledgers -- or the comment added at the bottom of the listing page -- to discover that it's really a baritone-teble.

 

Anyway, thanks for the info.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Dear all, I have to confess that the original content of my previous post #8 was somewhat wrong.

 

As the result of discussion with Geoff Woof and Conzertino and much delving into ledgers and pricelists etc. I have heavily edited that post and replaced the attachment with what I believe to be correct.

 

Please review that post and the emended attachment. If you have downloaded the previous version please replace it.

 

Apologies if this has caused confusion.

 

Geoffrey

 

Befuddled of Bishop's Stortford

[Chris Drinkwater]

This is the one!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Wheatstone-tenor-treble-concertina-56-key-for-restoration/281466203957?_trksid=p20476

 

Chris

[Geoff Wooff]

Dear Befuddled of Bishop's Stortford,

 

(and all us other confused souls here), it would appear that the definition of these more unusual models might also have caused some dificulties for the staff at Wheatstone's:

 

A friend of mine has a Baritone that carries the serial number 29393 (just two instruments before the one in question here). It is also described as a Baritone Treble with the model number 20C, it being a 64key Aeola. It is a very long time since I had that instrument in my hands but from memory it is a standard Baritone with the buttons in the same places as a Treble but sounding an octave lower, as in Geoff Crabb's diagram above.

 

I am currently trying to get my friend to confirm the layout, however this use of the same model number for two very different Baritones made at the same time may explain why there was a change to identifing the Baritone-Trebles as numbers 14,15 and 16 during the following year.

 

In a previous thread where BT's were discussed , cannot find it at the moment, SteveS said that he has one which was made much earlier than the apparent 1923 starting date. This could suggest that there were many more produced than those that can be counted by these later designation numbers.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[conzertino]

I can not see, where the problem is! In my post above and the one following it all models are shown:

 

There are four baritone-trebles: Geoff has a 56-key model 14, I have a 62 key-model 15, a 64 key model 16 plus a 52-key special.

 

Then there are the baritones: a 48 key model 20, a 56 key model 20A plus a special 64 key one ( lowest note F ) and a bass-baritone ( lowest note C ).

 

All baritones ( even a 64 key ) have the same key-position as a treble, all baritone-trebles have an obvious extra row of keys below!! The bass-baritone also has this extra line, as it corresponds to a tenor-treble ( down to c ). Simple!!

 

You will see from the pictures that Geoff's model 14 is the only one of all of them that has the extra keys at the very top - just as the one on ebay!

 

I have / had several Aeolas, where the description in the ledgers was not correct!

 

[Geoff Wooff]

I had one once and recorded a few hymns on it. It is a bit of a workout, but the aluminum or tin reed frames did lighten it up a bit. It took a fair amount of muscle to work the bellows. I have one or two of the recordings on my Vimeo channel, Vox Convento, if anyone is interested in hearing a rare instrument. Only about 125 were ever made.

 

Yes these larger concertinas do take more effort to create the pressure especially at the Forte end of the dynamic range. This is why I have stuck with the smallest of the BT's. At 8" across it is not such a lump to play especially when coming from the standard Trebles. The larger Baritones can get to 8 3/4", which might not appear to be that much larger untill you get one on your lap. I use wrist straps for that little extra pull but building up muscle is also part of the transition.

 

I regard the 56key BT as the most desirable of the Baritones, as it is hardly larger than a Tennor Treble, playing melodies in the normal treble range and adding low harmonies in the manner of a Duet.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Geoff Wooff