lukmanohnz Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Lukmanohnz LoM I would like to request a huge favor if you would be so kind. It would be extremely helpful if you would share your thoughts and impressions of the different concertinas after your visit to Greg's to audition his instruments! Like a review from a beginner's perspective? Precisely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) [[[Fortunately, the person I first heard play concertina, Ernestine Healy, teaches an 11 week and a 13 week course in the Online Academy of Irish Music. How awesome is that? Even better, Edel Fox teaches an 18 week course on the basics! So I'm leaning very heavy towards the Anglo because i'm going depend heavily on their instruction.]]] ha, well, then---i didn't quite absorb this prior to my recent post about EC---anglo it shall be, i wager. very nice that you already have id'd irish concertina styles that you like and folks you would like to emulate and/or learn from. reading this now, i would definitely urge postponing getting started until you can muster up the means to acquire the most responsive and playable anglo you can. i think that with the musical experience you already have under your belt, you would "outgrow" a less responsive instrument very quickly. good luck, and i predict you will have a blast with the concertina. it is an extremely addictive instrument. Edited October 15, 2014 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoM Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Lukmanohnz, definitely. I obviously don't know a lot about concertinas so the review would only be on the playability and the tone which are the two most important things in the long term in my opinion. How I see it, an instrument that's inherently difficult to play because of a poor setup, and has poor tonal quality, has a ceiling/cap for how easy it can get and how good it can sound. Whereas an instrument that's comfortable and feels good, and sounds great all on it's own, has the potential to give a young player the motivation they need to move forward, until the player is really good and can make the instrument sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Ceemonster, as this has been discussed on several occasions, it might be suitable to reply to your remarks regarding a (non-existent) "fat" EC sound right here. To my ears the common high-end Aeola sound very loud, but in a way too, well, clear and sharp. My own (one and only) instrument (as to the concertina), a late Lachenal Excelsior, has that rich, fat sound - but is admittedly by far not that loud as the before-mentioned Aeolas. Since the sound of the Excelsior is in fact very powerful, I never realized it being not that loud prior to meeting fellow players who were able to play really loud. However, that fat sound is heard in a session..., and with no other concertinas sounding simultaneously, no problem at all...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Jerone, If you want to be fully chromatic around any part of the scale, then a 20K Anglo is a bit limiting, the 24 & 26 k Anglos with the right accidentals can address that to an degree, and the 30 & 30+ k instruments get closer but they get ever more expensive, You would probably be better off looking at the English or duet systems. My advice is to make contact with Greg, and take him up on his kind offer to show you, and no doubt discuss, the capabilities of the different systems. I know you want to play Irish music, There are many English system players who play for dance, in any system you have to learn your instrument, and speed plus accuracy comes with practice. However the Irish slow airs with all the different keys ornamentation and thrown in accidentals do work very well on English (and duet) systems and would be no more than a dream on a basic 20k Anglo. I would suggest contacting Greg, and if you do go for a 20k go for a restored traditional rather than a big bulky Chinese accordion reeded instrument, competition from the Jackie, Rochelle instruments etc has driven down, or at least pegged the value of these traditional instruments. Failing that I would suggest that better a more traditionally sized accordion reeded concertina if you can get hold of one, say an Italian, or German concertina . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukmanohnz Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Lukmanohnz, definitely. I obviously don't know a lot about concertinas so the review would only be on the playability and the tone which are the two most important things in the long term in my opinion. How I see it, an instrument that's inherently difficult to play because of a poor setup, and has poor tonal quality, has a ceiling/cap for how easy it can get and how good it can sound. Whereas an instrument that's comfortable and feels good, and sounds great all on it's own, has the potential to give a young player the motivation they need to move forward, until the player is really good and can make the instrument sound great. Exactly the sorts of impressions I'm seeking, LoM! I'm a complete neophyte (not even that - I've never played a 'tina) but like you I've played musical instruments (all fretted - guitar, mandolin, ukulele) for many years and understand how a well-adjusted, good sounding and easy-to-play instrument returns much better dividends for the effort invested. I'm especially eager to hear your impressions as one who is starting from a similar place as me in approaching the concertina as a new endeavor. Playability and tone are at the very top of my list as well - for any instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoM Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 No problem Michael! With this in mind, i'll take notes so I can remember for myself when the time comes to make the buy! Thanks for the incentive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Kruskal Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Buy, sell, buy, sell but get in the game. You can't start playing until you have something to play. Edited October 16, 2014 by Jody Kruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Kruskal Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) IMO, your best option would be to rent a Button Box 30 button Céilí with an option to buy (if they have one available?) http://www.buttonbox.com/morse-ceili.html That way, you can start playing and then compare any future 'tinas you try with a Morse that is guaranteed to work well and sound good and only costs 2.5K new and a bit less used. As others have pointed out, resale price on one of these babies will get most if not all of your investment back should you decide to sell. Borrow the $ and invest it in something good and you really can't go wrong. Best of luck with your concertina adventure. When I started 30 years ago, there was no internet, no concertina.net community and no Button Box. I played a Bastari 'till the bellows burst. I was hooked on the box, but I knew I could do better than one of those Italian jobs. I remember flying to the UK for my concertina adventure, sitting at a weird looking English pay phone in Victoria train station with a stack of pound coins and a short list of likely phone numbers to call. The ring tone sounded like how I expected a busy signal to sound. My head was in a whirl. Persistence payed off with a very nice Jefferies 38 G/D from Crabb in Islington... just what I wanted, at about 5% of what they might cost now, (if you can find one at all) and still... a whole lot of money to pay for a little box back then. I still play it today, to my great delight. I'm so glad I made that investment though it seemed like a lot of cash at the time. The take away? Get something decent to start off with and let the instrument show you what it can do. You will be amazed. Edited October 16, 2014 by Jody Kruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoM Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 What about this? I'm not sure how difficult concertina making is, but i've always wanted to build an instrument and have never seen a kit like this for any other instrument. http://www.concertinaconnection.com/clover%20kit.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What about this? I'm not sure how difficult concertina making is, but i've always wanted to build an instrument and have never seen a kit like this for any other instrument. http://www.concertinaconnection.com/clover%20kit.htm A couple of reports: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11310 http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13471 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What about this? I'm not sure how difficult concertina making is, but i've always wanted to build an instrument and have never seen a kit like this for any other instrument. http://www.concertinaconnection.com/clover%20kit.htm It sounds like a bargain if you're confident in your abilities, have lots of patience and are happy with the hybrid tone. The most difficult parts are already done for you apart from the fine-tuning of the reeds, but you could always get a pro to do that part if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) What about this? I'm not sure how difficult concertina making is, but i've always wanted to build an instrument and have never seen a kit like this for any other instrument. http://www.concertinaconnection.com/clover%20kit.htm It sounds like a bargain if you're confident in your abilities, have lots of patience and are happy with the hybrid tone. The most difficult parts are already done for you apart from the fine-tuning of the reeds, but you could always get a pro to do that part if necessary. From listening to the soundfile as follows the sound is preferable to the one you're likely to get from a Rochelle...: http://soundcloud.com/marcuss-concertina/testing-the-clover Edited October 16, 2014 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maki Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Wm Wakker did have a set of Wheatstone steel reeds, but I don't see them now. It might be possible to get another set somewhere else if you can't stand the hybrid sound. Or,possibly upgrade later? I like the hybrids tone, but then I like accordions so my taste is clealy suspect. Putting a kit together seems really cool. Edited October 16, 2014 by maki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoM Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Wm Wakker did have a set of Wheatstone steel reeds, but I don't see them now. It might be possible to get another set somewhere else if you can't stand the hybrid sound. Or,possibly upgrade later? I like the hybrids tone, but then I like accordions so my taste is clealy suspect. Putting a kit together seems really cool. If I was able to find a steel reed set, how much would it cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Do you mean so that you could fit a set of vintage concertina reeds to the Clover kit? That wouldn't be a trivial thing to do because they are a different shape from accordion reeds. For a start you would need to make a new reed pan with accurate tapered dovetail slots on both sides. It would probably be simpler to rebuild a poor-condition vintage concertina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maki Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Do you mean so that you could fit a set of vintage concertina reeds to the Clover kit? That wouldn't be a trivial thing to do because they are a different shape from accordion reeds. For a start you would need to make a new reed pan with accurate tapered dovetail slots on both sides. It would probably be simpler to rebuild a poor-condition vintage concertina. Good point, I don't have any idea how much work would be involved in such a project. Certainly Greg J. or Wm Wakker(The Concertina Connection owner) could tell you. It might not be a project for a first time instrument builder. At any rate they don't seem to be commonly available. The steel reed set that I saw was $350, or somewhere in that neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 regardless of the build-kit, an already-made clover is another option for you along with morse ceilis, marcuses, lachenals, etc. i believe the clovers have "hand-finished" reeds, aka TAM reeds. but then, i like the accordion-reed sound also. can't say necessarily that i prefer it to the concertina-reed sound, but i like it just as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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