Fixing Silvagni 20b Anglo with loose buttons?

[MatthewVanitas]

I picked up this Silvagni pretty cheap, and from what messing I did with it (despite the buttons in disarray) the reeds seem reasonably in-tune, bellows seem functional, etc. The reason I got it cheap was because the buttons are falling out inside like scurvied teeth, so I popped the hood to have a look-see.

 

Turns out that the buttons are held onto their arms by an eyelet which has some kind of rubbery widget on it, which presumably at one point helped the button stay stable but flexible on the arm. When I first picked up the 'box, I heard a gritty/rattling sound, and was wondering how on earth dirt/sand got into the mechanism, but turns out it's all the pieces of those rubber widgets which have deteriorated over time and fallen apart inside the box. Now some buttons have widgets, others no, and even the ones that do the widget seems to have curled away from adding actual tightness to the linkage.

 

In my (admittedly quite amateur) view, this box should be reasonably functional if I can get the buttons back onto their arms and staying there. Am I right in thinking that the widgets were essential to the two parts staying together, and the rotting of those widgets is what caused the buttons to fall off? I have all the buttons, all parts are functional (save the broken leather strap), so is there some way I can replace those widgets and get this puppy functional (and promptly pass off to a noob learner at-cost since I don't actually play Anglo)?

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2011 by MatthewVanitas

[Theo]

You should find what you need here:

 

http://www.concertina.net/gs_stagirepair.html

[MatthewVanitas]

You should find what you need here:

 

http://www.concertina.net/gs_stagirepair.html

 

Wow, great article! So basically all I need to do is get a hold of these particular sizes of model airplane tubing, use those to make new sleeves, and I should be in business?

 

The website noted in the article is defunct and now is used by some aerial photography business, but I did find one hobby store (http://www.happyhobby.com/hobb_html/aerotren.htm) that carries that type of tubing, so have emailed them for a quote. It appears that deterioration of these button sleeves is a pretty common malady for older Italian boxes, so glad to know that my problem is not anomalous! Will report back once I take a stab at this.

[Theo]

Yes, any model aeroplane seller should be able to supply the silicone rubber fuel tubing. It is quite cheap so if in doubt get a couple of different sizes and experiment to find the one that is most effective.

[MatthewVanitas]

Cool, I've contacted a seller to get an order together, and will post back once I get a chance to try it out.

 

On a related note, once I get the pieces re-sleeved and back together, is there any particular trick to lowering the assembled keys/pads plate into the ends so that the buttons slide smoothly into their holes? Or will that just naturally occur if I have the sleeves fixed with new tubing, and slide the sleeved buttons to the proper point on the arm?

[RAc]

 

On a related note, once I get the pieces re-sleeved and back together, is there any particular trick to lowering the assembled keys/pads plate into the ends so that the buttons slide smoothly into their holes? Or will that just naturally occur if I have the sleeves fixed with new tubing, and slide the sleeved buttons to the proper point on the arm?

 

Refitting concertina ends is always a potentially cumbersome issue, but normally it's not too much of it; plus, the fewer buttons there are, the less hassle you can expect. Do NOT lower the action plate onto the end, but lower the end onto the action plate (iow, the buttons should face up when you do this, not down). Ideally, remove the entire action plate (which on most concertinas you have to do anyways before disassembling the action; I don't know about the Silvagni) and lay it onto a flat surface so it is firmly rested and you can work your way down. Make sure to lower the end as parallel to the casing as possible, allowing as many buttons as possible to slide into their designated holes. Typically there will be one or two strays that refuse to find their holes. Just slide a chop stick or a small screwdriver with a long blade carefully (!) in the space between the end and the casing and give the stray buttons a gentle tilt to help them into the holes; once all are in, the end will slide down and the assembly stabilize itself. If you don't find a good start, lower the end ever so slightly tilted, allowing one button into its hole and then wiggle the end plate very carefully and slightly until the next button has found its place, release the tilt, and repeat.

 

That procedure works well even with concertinas with many buttons; most importantly, stay calm and relaxed, don't lose your patience and don't apply any force. Everything should literally fall into place (that's how it was manufactured at least), so if you can't get it to work without applying force, there is something wrong.

 

With your instrument with the chubby buttons it looks like a very straightforward task; some instruments such as Wheatstone duets that have rather slender and long buttons and don't have a lot of support from the levers require, well, more patience.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Ruediger R. Asche

[MatthewVanitas]

UPDATE: bad news, looks like Aerotrend has been out of business for several years. Any specific recommendations on what would be a good substitute, or should I just seek out a different make of teflon R/C fuel tube of 1/8" ID?

 

 

EDIT: it appears most r/c fuel tube on the market is silicone vice teflon. Does that make a big difference for concertina purposes?

Edited October 14, 2011 by MatthewVanitas

[Anglo-Irishman]

Cool, I've contacted a seller to get an order together, and will post back once I get a chance to try it out.

 

On a related note, once I get the pieces re-sleeved and back together, is there any particular trick to lowering the assembled keys/pads plate into the ends so that the buttons slide smoothly into their holes? Or will that just naturally occur if I have the sleeves fixed with new tubing, and slide the sleeved buttons to the proper point on the arm?

 

Matthew,

To go by the photos, the action of your Silvagni seems identical to that of my Stagi. In that case, you don't have to remove the action boards at all - just the ends (the flat components with the button holes) themselves. There's plenty of room inside the action box to just slide the buttons off the levers and slide them back on when you've replaced the sleeves.

 

As to threading the buttons through the holes, as has already been said, patience is of the essence! Just try to get the buttons aligned and vertical, and if one or two resist this attempt, use a long, thin object to prod them into place while lowering the endplate onto them.

This is not a problem specific to cheap, Italian concertinas - I have just as much trouble reassembling my 48-button Lachenal as my 30-button Stagi.

 

As to obtaining the tubing - isn't there a model shop or a toyshop with a model-aircraft department in your vicinity? You could take a button with you and ask to try their fuel lines for size. Should be a firm fit, but not too tight, and that's easier to ascertain at a shop counter than in the Internet!

 

Cheers,

John

[Wolf Molkentin]

As to obtaining the tubing - isn't there a model shop or a toyshop with a model-aircraft department in your vicinity?

Or you might empty some bottles (can't find a better word right now) of fluid hand soap and use their internal tubes... (which worked quite well with my own eBay-acquired Stagi back then).

[Daniel Hersh]

it appears most r/c fuel tube on the market is silicone vice teflon. Does that make a big difference for concertina purposes?

The original article recommended silicone, not teflon. George wrote, "I use Aerotrend "Blue Line" silicone".

[Theo]

If you Google for silicone fuel tube you will find numerous suppliers.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Theo

[RAc]

UPDATE: bad news, looks like Aerotrend has been out of business for several years. Any specific recommendations on what would be a good substitute, or should I just seek out a different make of teflon R/C fuel tube of 1/8" ID?

 

 

EDIT: it appears most r/c fuel tube on the market is silicone vice teflon. Does that make a big difference for concertina purposes?

 

you could probably even try vinyl tube from fish tank supply stores or heat-shrink tubing. The stuff is cheap enough and the repair is easily reversible, so there's nothing in the way of experimenting to your heart's delight. Be a pioneer! :-)

[MatthewVanitas]

I ended up finding some blue silicone fuel-line for about a buck a foot on eBay, so this weekend I cut all the pieces and got the buttons set up. Interestingly enough, some previous owner had tried to solve the button-sleeve decay issue by making makeshift sleeves of rubber-bands. But of course by now those were pretty crusty too.

 

The instructions in the article worked great, and a few observations:

 

• It's not immediately clear how far along the arm to slide the buttons, so I did a combination of watching for wear marks, or sliding the buttons after finding they didn't line up with the holes.
  
• The buttons appeared to be uniform overall, which is good because I didn't bother labeling which button came from which arm. All had some amount of "lean" where the tang wasn't quite square with the button, so I assume that's intentional. The degrees of lean varied by button, but didn't appear to have any consistent pattern, so I figure that's just sloppiness and the buttons are generally interchangeable. I did realise pretty quick that the lean is supposed to face away from the pads when installing the button.
  
• Getting the end on when the buttons were loose before was a nightmare, but once I had them with tight silicone and nudged into the right parts of the arm, I could often get them to drop into place on the first try.
  
• When a button didn't line up exactly right, I found the perfect tool for nudging them from above. A pen or screwdriver or whatever isn't much good because both they and the buttons are slippery, however a small piece of silicone tubing works great, since it's gummy enough to catch a little grip on the button, and drag it into alignment with the hole. It's probably work even better if I took some small poke-y item and sheathed it in silicone tubing to make it firm but with a gummy surface.
  
• Speaking of not labeling things, I learned the hard way that many parts aren't totally standardised, but they just drilled holes wherever, so the strap-guard from one side might not fit the other, and the bellows-pins only line up with their holes if put back in the original configuration, so next time I'll get some post-its or whatnot and clearly mark what marries up with what.
  
• I have a few buttons where the plastic end can be pulled off the tang with very little pressure; might it be advisable to use some kind of non-permanent glue (Elmer's White?) to make it just a bit tighter to its tang?
  

 

 

The buttons are now fixed, and the decayed straps I replaced by buying a lady's belt of roughly similar thickness and width for $3.99 on clearance at Target. I didn't want to mess with buckles, so for now I joined them by drilling holes in each end of the strap and weaving some fishline through it; I can drill holes further down if I need to tighten it, though it's not much adjustable on the fly.

 

The left side plays great, except for the basses being a little honky (probably nature of the beast), but on the right side the C-row 7th button keeps playing (in both directions) after I let go of the button, so I need to see if the lever isn't returning, or the pad is misaligned, or what. The very last note also whistles a bit (in one direction) while I'm playing, so I'll check on its pad/lever as well. Aside from those two notes, everything is peachy.

 

I do have another of the same type to fix, but its keys are overall fine, but one single note sounds "strangled" or "choked". Any suggestions on how best to troubleshoot that? Likely fluff/debris interfering with the reed, or some other probably cause?

Edited June 26, 2012 by MatthewVanitas

[Daniel Hersh]

I do have another of the same type to fix, but its keys are overall fine, but one single note sounds "strangled" or "choked". Any suggestions on how best to troubleshoot that? Likely fluff/debris interfering with the reed, or some other probably cause?

 

That's a good place to start. Try cleaning the reed with a stiff piece of paper. A new dollar bill works well - you want something strong enough that it won't tear. Run the paper between the reed tongue and the reed frame. (This assumes you can get access to the reed.)

[MatthewVanitas]

That's a good place to start. Try cleaning the reed with a stiff piece of paper. A new dollar bill works well - you want something strong enough that it won't tear. Run the paper between the reed tongue and the reed frame. (This assumes you can get access to the reed.)

 

I take it that'll be easy enough on the out-facing reeds, but a fair bit harder to do on the inboard reads? Or is there some clever workaround?

 

 

UPDATE: Ah hah! I think I figured out why one button occasionally lets its notes keep sounding (quite clear) after using it. Took it apart again, and I note that when that key is depressed the arm wobbles a bit. So depending on how it comes back down onto the soundboard, it either seals properly, or doesn't. All I can see of the difference between that button and others is that the little bracket that holds its arm seems slightly more open than its neighbors. Does it seem smart to take some pliers and pinch that bracket a little more closed in hope it'll take the wobble out of the lever and make sure it lays the pad down consistently in the right place?

 

UPDATE: Dangit, I tried crimping the bracket for that button's lever a bit tighter, and it does have less wiggle in it now, but it still behaves the same way when I re-assemble it. Buttons will all be nice and sealed, but when I depress the specific button it has a 50%+ chance of that note then staying open both on push and pull, fully loud just as if the button were still held down even though it's sprung back up. Could it somehow just be a pad issue?

 

And on my highest note, the the push note is still strangled despite cleaning with a piece of paper. I'll try again, and also get some canned air from an office store to see if I can blow anything loose.

Edited June 30, 2012 by MatthewVanitas