English or Duet?

[Dieppe]

This is the question that's been plaguing us since at least 1894!

 

At least it was answered then, I suppose in "The Musical Herald," Nov 1, 1894, "Questions and Answers"

 

"Clarinet. Lachenal's Duet Concertina"

 

Which would be the better instrument to learn, the English concertina, or Lachenal's duet concertina? — G. W.

 

Ans.— You cannot do better than have Lachenal's duet concertina if you intend thoroughly to master the instrument, as it possesses advantages over all others of this class. It has a separate scale on each side, so that a melody can be played on either, and the other can be used for accompaniment. This is the one most generally adopted by professional players, and gives the best result. With this, one can play in any key, and any ordinary pianoforte solo or accompaniment is quite within its limits.

 

So... we're still asking that question!

 

Patrick

[m3838]

This is the question that's been plaguing us since at least 1894!

 

At least it was answered then, I suppose in "The Musical Herald," Nov 1, 1894, "Questions and Answers"

 

"Clarinet. Lachenal's Duet Concertina"

 

Which would be the better instrument to learn, the English concertina, or Lachenal's duet concertina? — G. W.

 

Ans.— You cannot do better than have Lachenal's duet concertina if you intend thoroughly to master the instrument, as it possesses advantages over all others of this class. It has a separate scale on each side, so that a melody can be played on either, and the other can be used for accompaniment. This is the one most generally adopted by professional players, and gives the best result. With this, one can play in any key, and any ordinary pianoforte solo or accompaniment is quite within its limits.

 

So... we're still asking that question!

 

Patrick

 

 

The problems lives here: "if you intend thoroughly to master the instrument"

Another caveat is "if you are able".

 

[saguaro_squeezer]

It is certainly a challenge

 

 

[Dirge]

The problems lives here: "if you intend thoroughly to master the instrument"

Another caveat is "if you are able".

I wouldn't say the first statement is a problem, but it's certainly a key part of the original answer. I don't think the 'if you're able' is right. Someone suggested once that learning to play duet well is like learning to touchtype. Sounds fair to me, and that is something all sorts of people seem to be able to do if they put the time in.

[Boney]

Someone suggested once that learning to play duet well is like learning to touchtype.

Typing is much more like playing a single-line melody on the English, I think, what with the letters of words distributed between both hands. Also, rhythm is not important and there are no dynamics. Well, some play the concertina that way too...

[Dirge]

Someone suggested once that learning to play duet well is like learning to touchtype.

Typing is much more like playing a single-line melody on the English, I think, what with the letters of words distributed between both hands. Also, rhythm is not important and there are no dynamics. Well, some play the concertina that way too...

True. Can't argue with that lot, I'll forget it.

[Alan Day]

I would be interested to hear from those who switched instruments to the Duet.

Was it a good move, or was it a mistake ?

Have you switched back to the original instrument ?

Al

[hjcjones]

I think it's a misleading question. The EC was, I believe, intended as an alternative to the violin. The duet is more like a piano. If you bear that distinction in mind, and consider the sort of music you want to play and how you want to play it, then the choice should become easier.

[JimLucas]

I would be interested to hear from those who switched instruments to the Duet.

Was it a good move, or was it a mistake ?

Have you switched back to the original instrument ?

For starters, have a look at this poll (started and last posted to in 2004).

I'm sorry that it doesn't properly separate the English from duets, much less different kinds of duet, but a different distinction was being emphasized at that time.

 

Maybe you or someone else could start a new and better poll to answer your question and (I hope) also include the various other permutations (e.g., duet to or from or plus anglo, maybe even Maccann vs. Jeffries duet?). (I'd do it myself, but at the moment I can't spare the time to work out a properly rigorous list of response options.)

[Dieppe]

Ahem, my point wasn't whether the answer was right or wrong... just that the question is still being asked a century later!

 

And I'm pretty good on the English, and trying to learn how to play a Lachenal Duet...

 

 

Patrick

[JimLucas]

I think it's a misleading question.

Not so much "misleading", I think, as lacking in usefulness without additional information. E.g., as you said, "the sort of music you want to play and how you want to play it".

 

The EC was, I believe, intended as an alternative to the violin.

A common claim, but as far as I know there are no recorded statements by Charles Wheatstone to either confirm or deny it. On the other hand, the very first English concertinas did not go down to the low G of a violin, but had a compass similar to that of a flute.

 

All of which should be irrelevant. What matters isn't so much the original intent of the inventor (or even the builder), but the way(s) in which the instrument is, has been, and potentially can be used. "Irish style" on the anglo is an obvious example. Alas, many folks make their choice based more on a belief regarding what the instrument can or can't do than on the actual capabilities.

 

The duet is more like a piano.

"More like"? Yes. But still quite different. On a piano, all the keys can be played by either hand, but not on a concertina. On the other hand (pun noticed), all duets have at least a few notes that are duplicated (once in each hand), but there are no such duplications on a piano.

 

If you ... consider the sort of music you want to play and how you want to play it, then the choice should become easier.

The distinction, yes. The choice? Not necessarily. As has been noted many times in this forum, there seem to be no inherent limits on the kinds of music and types of arrangement that can be played on any of the different kinds of concertina. But a significant non-technical factor for many individuals is the availability/accessibility of teaching materials or even live teachers.

[JimLucas]

Ahem, my point wasn't whether the answer was right or wrong... just that the question is still being asked a century later!

I thought it was great to see the quote... even if I don't much agree with it. Thanks.

 

And I'm pretty good on the English, and trying to learn how to play a Lachenal Duet...

Maccann, Crane (Triumph), or some other "duet"?

[Dieppe]

...But a significant non-technical factor for many individuals is the availability/accessibility of teaching materials or even live teachers.

 

Dead teachers being a problem, but it's the undead teachers I'd keep an eye out for! Concertina Zombie Teachers!!! AAA!

 

Patrick

[Daniel Hersh]

I would be interested to hear from those who switched instruments to the Duet.

Was it a good move, or was it a mistake ?

Have you switched back to the original instrument ?

Al

I didn't exactly switch - I still play Anglo as well as Hayden (and now I'm learning Crane). I'm definitely happy about having taken the time to learn duet.

[Dieppe]

Maccann, Crane (Triumph), or some other "duet"?

 

It's a Maccann. I need to dedicate more time to sit down and practice... it's like 3/4s of each side of an English smashed together on one side.

 

Patrick

[shaunw]

Answers to this are bound to be personal but also the history is important.

It I were tempted to learn the duet I would think that learning to play

keyboards would be a better bet. Originally duet players wanted something

that could be like a small portable piano. Now thanks to electronics

they don't have to compromise with a duet concertina.

 

The design of the English concertina is a work of original genius. Its two

handed action is so fast for a metal reed instrument It is so easy to learn

to play while learning to read music at the same time and it is the only

genuine English musical instrument. The English is a perfect representation

of what its inventor wanted to achieve. I find it impossible not to love it.

[frogspawn]

My first concertina was a very limited Anglo. For the past few years I've been trying to learn to play a Crane, but I do sometimes wonder if switching to the English would have been a better choice.

 

The type of music one wants to play is pretty fundamental. If I was going to play instrumental ITM I would get a C/G Anglo and that would be the end of the matter. If I wanted to play in English sessions I'd get a very loud G/D Anglo, or, perhaps, a melodeon so I wasn't drowned out! However, as song accompaniment is my main interest, the duet and the English are the ones in the running as far as I am concerned.

 

I think the Crane can do everything the English can do and a bit more, but it is not as fast and when I do want to use it for instrumental tunes I find it very difficult to keep up with normal session speed.

[Dirge]

Answers to this are bound to be personal but also the history is important.

It I were tempted to learn the duet I would think that learning to play

keyboards would be a better bet. Originally duet players wanted something

that could be like a small portable piano. Now thanks to electronics

they don't have to compromise with a duet concertina.

 

This is just wrong. No decent keyboard is as portable as a big duet, let alone independent of electricity or speakers as a duet is. In my experience they are nothing like as responsive as an aeola, (few instruments are) nor do they sound so spectacular.

 

There is nothing like a decent duet. You really have no idea.