hjcjones

It sounds to me as if you had some discouraging musical experiences when you were younger, which have left you feeling that you could never be a musician. So many people are put off music by thoughtless comments at an early stage. Thrown out of the choir? Most people can sing, if they're taught properly. Perhaps you were never taught, or were taught badly. But being unable to sing doesn't mean you can't play an instrument. Your guitar teacher never gave you a chance. It took me 3 years to learn to play basic chords on a guitar (but I had the proverbial fool for a teacher - myself). Again, playing concertina is quite different. Just because one instrument didn't suit you doesn't mean you won't take to another. Even a total beginner can get a good sound from a concertina. The English concertina has a logical keyboard which can easily be related to written music, if you were to learn to read the "dots" (but many good players can not, so don't worry about that). The instrument clearly has sentimental value to you, but I agree with the others that it should be played, not left on a shelf. Give it a go! You will find plenty of other players around London who will be more than willing to give advice, and maybe lessons. This forum, as you've already found, is a valuable source of help. If you really can't get on with it, then by all means sell it and enjoy the proceeds. But I think you'd regret it if you were to dispose of it too soon, without first giving it a try.

I think all M3838 was trying to say is that the stages applicable to amateurs and to professionals are on different levels, and that even an advanced amateur will be on the lower rung when compared with professional musicians. It may be true in the world of "serious" music (how I hate that term). In other genres, I'm not so sure. In folk music, which is the field I know best, there are plenty of amateur musicians on all instruments who can compare with the professionals, and indeed might be capable of turning pro if they so wished, but have chosen not to.

Didn't PJ Harvey sometime play a concertina? I'm sure I once saw her on Jools Holland or something similar waving one around.

When I was little my grandparents would take me to Southend as a treat. I thought the land I could see across the water was France. I can still taste Rossi's ice cream, are they still going?

It is perhaps significant that ITM seems to have a fairly structured way of learning, both through CCE and teachers like Noel Hill who seem to travel the world doing concertina schools. Although there may be some criticism that techniques become standardised, there are at least plenty of opportunities to learn, not only for beginners but also for more advanced players who want to develop. In contrast, those wishing to play "English" style seem to be left to work it out for themselves, often in isolation, with little assistance and not much in the way of teaching materials. Unless you are fortunate enough to live in an area where there is an active group of like-minded players, you're on your own. LDT, I don't know where in Essex you're from. Have you tried Essex Folk News http://efnmagazine.co.uk/ to try to find other players nearby?

I should perhaps make the point that I am writing from the perspective of a harmonic, RH melody LH chords player. As I understand it (which isn't very far), ITM uses cross-rowing from the outset, because it is mainly in fiddle keys which don't fit neatly onto the rows of a C/G instrument.

Sebastian, the point I was trying to make (and if I misunderstood your posts I apologise) was to try to get away from the idea that to play in C you use the middle row and to play in G you use the inner row. It is perhaps inevitable that to begin with a novice player will do this, but the sooner they understand the alternatives open to them and start to explore the possibilities the instrument offers, the better in my opinion. The notion that some players have that playing across the rows is an "advanced technique" needs to be discouraged.

Although the middle ( C) and inner (G) rows are complete scales in themselves, they complement each other. The G scale contains exactly the same notes as the C scale, with the exception of the F#. So all the notes, apart from F, which you find on the middle row are also available on the inner row. Furthermore, some useful notes can be found doubled-up on the accidental row. This is why you have "too much choice". Once you understand the underlying logic (and there is a logic to the anglo, albeit a slightly twisted one ) it becomes easier to decide which of the choices is best. The choice will depend on the phrases you are playing before and after the note in question. With respect to Sebastian, I think it is a mistake to stick too rigidly to one row or another. Certainly, they will give you a starting point, depending on the key you're playing in. But many runs of notes are actually easier if the fingering crosses the rows - it is not just for experts. Try playing scales, or parts of scales, and find as many different ways as possible to play the same sequence of notes. Even if you were to play from music, you would still have to choose which of the options for a particular note is the best one. That can only be done by trial and error. With practice, you will find it easier to make the right choice first time. But even now, after playing the damn thing for more than 30 years, I still have to work out arrangements for more complex tunes by trial and error, and it may take some time before I settle on a fingering for a tune which works. Edited to replace "C#" with "F#" - doh! My excuse is, I've been playing my G/D a lot lately

Playing by ear and playing from music are really two different skills. To play by ear, you need to already know the tune and have that in your head. The easiest way to do this is to listen to someone else play it. If you're learning from notation, you can use software to play back the score so that you can hear how the tune goes - this should also help you to understand how notation works. Find the starting note, by trial and error if necessary. Then work you way up or down the scale until you find the next note, and so on. This will be much easier if you start in the "home" keys of C or G so that you can play up and down the rows - but don't be afraid to play a note on one of the other rows if that's the better option. To begin with, this will be painfully slow, but with practice you'll find that you start recognise the intervals between the notes and know instinctively which button to go for. Written down, this sounds terribly difficult, but with practice it becomes second nature. You'll find that a lot of tunes, folk tunes especially, contain similar phrases, and in time you'll build up a mental "library" of fingerings which will allow you to reproduce these phrases without needing to work them out every time. Playing from notation means that you not only have to be able to read the dots but also know where to find each note on the instrument. Even then, on a concertina you may have a choice of more than one button for each note (unlike, say, a piano, which has only one key for each note), so you will still have to experiment to find the best fingering. The notation will only show you how the tune goes, it won't tell you how to play it on concertina. They are both good skills to have, so try to develop both. Learning to play by ear will let you pick up tunes quickly in sessions, or play tunes you've heard without having to get hold of the music, or improvise. Playing from notation will let you learn the tunes more quickly, if only because you don't have to copy them into software to play back. I'm an ear player, but there are lots of times when I wish I could sight-read. This online music lessson website explains the principles of music notation in simple language and you can listen to the examples. Don't get too bogged down trying to understand harmony, circle of fifths etc until you understand the basics. There are tablature systems for concertina, but there's no agreed standard, and IMHO they're not very intuitive - by the time I've worked out a fingering from tab I could probably have found it by trial and error.

At my local session in Cheshire (which may be fairly heavily Irish or fairly heavily English, depending on who turns up) there are at least 5 regular EC players, although it is unusual for them to all turn up together. I'm the only Anglo.

This has been discussed a few times before. The straps need to be tight enough so that you have control over the instrument, yet loose enough to allow you to reach all the buttons. I move my hands in the straps as I play, to reach different notes and chords. I maintain a firm grip on the instrument by clamping down on the strap as necessary with the lower joint of the thumb - these leaves the upper joint free to reach the air button or drone button. I play supporting the right hand, so I'm less dependent on strap tension on this side to control the instrument, and I can leave the upper thumb joint free to use the air button. With the left hand, I'll often curl my thumb round to increase the tension, but it's free to move should I need to reach the drone button. Would thumb straps help? Possibly, but I'd be concerned that they might restrict thumb movement, which you need for the air button (and drone if you've got one). I find the technique I've described works very well, with the added advantage that you can control the precise amount of tension by increasing or decreasing the thumb pressure.

I play (in order of learning them): recorder, guitar, anglo concertina, hammered dulcimer and melodeon. I also occasionally play a bit of percussion (bones and shaky egg), but sparingly as a little goes a long way. I've also dabbled with ukelele, mandolin and Appalachian dulcimer.

I don't play duet, so I'm writing from experience as an Anglo player. From what you say, you appear to be using only three fingers, with an occasional "stab" with the little finger. On Anglo, I use the little finger of both hands extensively. I'm not familiar with the Crane layout, but I would guess that bringing another finger into play would help. It's just a question of practice, the finger will gain both strength and accuracy in time. I agree with David Levine, I can play anglo faster across the rows.

Why do you want to transpose? If you're playing along with others and you have to go along with the keys they're playing in, then of course you have no choice. Same if you're accompanying singing and need to pitch to the voice. But if you're just playing solo then it doesn't matter - just play the tune as before and hear it in a different key. However it is worth experimenting with transposing, since the character is very different, especially if you're playing chords. On a G/D, playing in G is deep and mellow, and you have a lot of possibilities for chords and bass runs - on a C/G the sound is much brighter and the chord options are different. C on a G/D is like playing in F on a C/G - again, very different in character because of the chords and cross-rowing. I can't play from music so I transpose by ear. This isn't as complicated as it sound, I simply choose the set of fingerings and chords by ear. Unless they're tunes I'll be playing with others, I pick the key and the instrument which I think best suits the tune, regardless of what key it was written or played in when I first learned it.

Like the others, I don't have a problem switching between different instruments, although I found recorder and whistle fingering too close, but not close enough, so it had to be one or the other. The problem I sometimes have is remembering which instrument to play. Sometimes in a session a tune will come into my head and I'll start it, only to remember, just before I get to the tricky bit, that I usually play it on something else. Usually I somehow manage to fudge my way through.

Then why is it that James Galway sounds ridiculous when he tries to play traditional irish tunes? Or Yehudi Menuhin playing jazz violin - alongside Stephan Grapelli he sounded like an amateur, which in that genre he was.

When I saw this I thought it was the title of a tune to go with Bonnets so Blue

F/Cs are great, as others have said they're good keys for singing. I've a Lachenal F/C and I love the sound, it's got quite a different character from a G/D despite being only a tone lower. My only problem with it is that I find 6 folds in the bellows isn't quite enough - those big reeds need a lot of air, and I have to use the air button and reversals to the full. With the better-quality of Jeffries reeds and bellows perhaps this isn't such a problem with the one on Ebay. I'd be tempted, but already having one in those keys and with another G/D surplus to requirements, I can't justify it.

The Dippers' cases are pretty sturdy and unless you expect to give it a real battering I should have thought it would be more than adequate. I think you're wise to postpone a decision until your new concertina arrives and you can judge for yourself. If you are going to get a custom-made case, and you're also going to be carrying around your current concertina, then it might be worth investing in a double case - I find mine to be a real godsend, especially when I'm also carrying around mel*deons and other off-topic instruments. But I use it for convenience, not because the original cases were inadequate. Enjoy your Dipper - I got my Cotswold just over a year ago and it's a real pleasure: lovely to look at, great to play, and a wonderful tone.

Because we speak of the "C" and "G" rows it's tempting to think of them as being self-contained, and to play them accordingly. But the anglo is more than a couple of harmonicas in a box. Once you start to think of it as an entire instrument you open up a whole new range of possibilities. Learning to play in D on the C/G will be a learning curve and will undoubtedly involve a lot of "hunt and peck", but only until you get used to it. However, if you usually play in the keys of G and D it may be worth getting an instrument in those keys. Nevertheless, if you can possibly afford it, I'd go for the full 30 keys or more. My first "proper" instrument (after starting on a 20-key toy) was a 26-key, and having those extra notes was invaluable, but I soon found I really missed the lower notes which the full three-row provides. Now I play a 40-key and find even the standard 30-key a bit limiting.

There's Glorisher (Fieldtown) for a start, which has a nice run which includes F natural (if you're playing in G on a G/D). Of course, you could play it in D and use the C#, but you've then either got to play in the middle range and compromise the chords, or jump up and down between octaves - G is the better key IMO, but needs the accidental row. But it's not just a question of "needing" more buttons, in the sense of having additional notes which you don't get on a 20 key. Having a third row opens out far more possibilities for alternative fingerings and chords. including the low B and C. Having said that, William Kimber managed very well within the two rows, and having to work within the limitations of the smaller keyboard can produce some interesting results. If you find you need a note which your instrument doesn't have, you just play a different note instead (melodeonists do this all the time!)

You do need to persevere. There will be times when it will be frustrating, when it won't go right and seems like it never will. But the moment will come when you can do it, and it's wonderful. There will be times when you'll sit up playing half the night trying to get it right, and other times when you'll sit up playing half the night because you have got it right. It could take at least a month, quite possibly more. Or you might crack it tomorrow. Stick at it, that's the thing. Peter's right, it takes a lot of hard work and for most of us none of it comes easily. But it's clear from your posts that you have the necessary passion for music and for the instrument, and the rewards make all the effort worthwhile. One day, when you can play well, some fool will come up to you and say "I wish I could play an instrument". Well. it's easy, you just have to practice for hours. And hours. And then practice more. And always keep learning. PS like Chris, I too am an Essex Calf in exile.

Chords are hard. It's hard enough to move just one finger at a time and to manage to hit the right button, but to play chords you have to learn to move several fingers at once. You also have to learn how to do different things with each hand, at the same time. Sometimes, when you're learning, it just seems all too much. But if you stick with it, it will come. You also have to learn which chords to play. You can do this either via musical theory or by trial and error. Fortunately the anglo is well-suited to the latter method But it's still something else to think about. Playing an instrument is a bit like driving a car - there's an awful lot going on at once, and you have to split your attention between the physical actions of driving, avoiding other road users, and navigating your route. When you're learning, each of these elements seems to demand your full attention, but with practice you find you can do them all at once. It's the same with your concertina - it's not easy to begin with, and there will be frustrating times when it seems impossible, but in time it will all come together for you. Decide what sound you want to make with your concertina. If you want to play chords, then stick with it. Don't take the apparently "easy option" just because playing chords seems too difficult at the moment. Besides, you'll find that playing single-note style can be no less demanding in terms of technique.

I find it fascinating that so many Americans, often with no English background themselves, have adopted morris so enthusiastically (although enthusiasm is of course a very American trait). The average English person finds the morris very odd, and is deeply ashamed to be associated with it in any way. Many years ago as a young man Greyhounding around North America I fell in with some morris dancers in New England. To cut a long story short, I found myself, in borrowed kit, going out on tour with the Black Jokers from Boston. Somewhere in my archives is a photo of me playing for them, on a borrowed concertina, in Salem. One of the audience asked me what was going on, and I explained that it was traditional folk dancing from England. He looked at me doubtfully, despite my being evidently English, and said, "Nah, the English don't dress up like that!"

Heard the much-missed Tony Rose on an album using a concertina to accompany his singing. Loved the sound. My local music shop had a concertina, which I bought. Turned out Tony played English, and I'd bought a very rubbish Chinese anglo. Messed with it for a while, didn't really figure it out, and put it aside. My interest was re-awakened a few years later by albums such as "Morris On" and seeing John Kirkpatrick at my university folk club. Also while at university, I met singer-songwriter Richard Plant, who plays anglo. On my return home I got to know Colin Cater at my local folk club, who gave me a few tips. Started to get the hang of it, and started listening to other players - John Watcham, William Kimber (on record, of course), Peter Bellamy, Father Ken, among others. In those days concertina players were still a rarity, so I was pretty much on my own when it came to working it out. My goal when I started? "I want to make a sound like that!" 35 years on, it still is.