Alex West

Has anyone seen anything like this before? It's coming up at auction on Saturday and is described as a "Scottish concertina" with a label; W Mitchell, Wishaw. Alex West

When I first moved to Scotland, I stayed on a farm and one summer evening, I was playing concertina outside whilst my wife practised step dancing. After a short while, she suggested I turned round - there were the cows all lined up against the fence, mesmerised. I tested the reaction later in the evening when the cows were all busy at the far end of the field. As soon as I started playing, they all rushed over to the fence again to hear. I don't hesitate much when I say they were the best audience I've ever had. They didn't put a lot of money in the hat though Alex West

Gentlemen There seems to be a general assumption around that because the Jeffries family made duets to their own system with as few keys as 45 and because a number of Jeffries duets have over the years been converted to anglos, that every Jeffries anglo with more than 40 keys started life as a duet. I don't know about this instrument in particular, but to my personal knowledge (I've seen, touched and delved inside them, measured the reeds and looked carefully at the reed pans) I know of a 46 key Jeffries anglo and a 50 key Jeffries anglo that have always ben anglos, were never ever duets and have not been re-tuned nor the reed pans reshaped to take differnt reeds on push and pull. I'm pretty sure I've also seen correspondence on this site about large Jeffries anglos which were built that way. There's a flaw in the logic here: "Jeffries made large concertinas; Jeffries duets are large concertinas; some Jeffries duets are known to have been converted into anglos; therefore all large Jeffries anglos were once duets" This might be a good hypothesis if there wasn't some evidence that Jeffries made some anglos which are large. One of the confusions does seem to be that the external appearance (fretwork pattern, arrangement of buttons) of a large Jeffries Anglo is very similar to that of a Jeffries duet, but outward apearances aren't everything. By the way, Wheatstone made some pretty large anglos. The standard largest might have been 40 keys but (if memory serves) they made a 56 key anglo in 1914 (number 26513) and other specials after this. As another aside, they also seem to have made some in the early 1900's to a Jeffries pattern, for example No 26114. No suspicions that Wheatstone duets have ever been converted into anglos are there? All that I'm really saying is that it's impossible to generalise without knowing the specifics of the instrument in question. So, Brian; can you tell us a little more about your instrument? Does it play the same note whether you push or pull the bellows? Do you know what keys it's in? Might you have a chart showing which buttons play which notes? And finally have you looked inside the instrument and seen what the reeds and reed pans look like? These might be very relevant questions to a buyer and could make a lot of difference to the value. Looks a nice instrument though Alex West

Paul The action does look similar, but the posts on the photographs of "your" concertina look a good bit thinner than the Australian Jeffries English or other Jeffries that I've seen. Impossible to be sure without a micrometer but worth checking? Also, the shape of the rivets is totally different. I know the Jeffries family used different sized rivet snaps at different times, but maybe another clue? None of this proves anything conclusively one way or the other, just suggests that they aren't from the same shop Alex West

There's another model 22 Wheatstone on ebay at the moment at a much lower current bid - but you'd nee to be quick - it ends in 9 hours! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130545454704&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT Same caveats apply as you've mentioned, but this vendor sold a larger model within 24 hours in a Buy-it-now a week ago. I'm now longer in Aberdeen or I'd have taken a look Alex

I came across Wheatstone number 2118 today in a collection of other instruments. It was a nice looking (as in well preserved) 48 button rosewood English instrument with 4 bellows and buttons (coloured, with letters on the tops) indicating that it was probably a student model. It had pine baffles as well and the case was an extremely handsome piece of woodwork. I didn't have time, equipment or liberty to open it up, but inside the case was a quantity of spare (?) brass reeds mounted on a rectangular piece of wood, neatly routed to house the reeds so I imagine it was original. I also didn't have any tuning devices with me so I don't know what pitch it was in. From the ledgers, this number appears to fall into the gap between the last of the 1848 numbers and the start of the 1851 numbers (so 1849 might be a good guess?). My questions are, would anyone out there have a better idea of the date? And was it common at that time to have included with the instrument a set of spare reeds? Alex West

Niamh ni Charra (http://niamhnicharra.com) is half way through a small tour of Scottish folk clubs before heading off to mainland Europe with Carlos Nunez' band. A friend and I went to see her at Stirling folk club on Monday and it was a fabulous evening with a superb concertina player and all round good musician & singer. She has with her a tremendous young guitarist, Matt Griffin who nearly stole the show with his sensitive and witty accompaniment. You've already missed her at Leith last night, but there's still time to catch her and Matt at Irvine tonight (http://www.irvinefolkclub.co.uk/) or at Falkirk on Thursday (http://www.falkirkfolkclub.co.uk/) Alex West

It's definitely happening - I attended a meeting of the planning committee earlier this week and Ian has some good guests lined up, bracketed by a seminar, sessions, concerts and workshops. This event is only held every 4 years and this year is extra special as it's Ian Russell's final year as Director of the Elphinstone Institute and professor at Aberdeen University If anyone is interested, by all means be in touch and that will give Ian and the committee the incentive to lay on some even more special events. Alex West

I wondered whether to post this in the Education section or here in Construction and Repair. I caught this link in a bookbinding suppliers site and copy here the first paragraph or so of the conference below. Unfortunately, I'm just about to head off on holiday so don't have time to find out more about this conference and the first topic listed, but perhaps someone can check out whether this is about concertinas as we know them? As many here will know, bookbinding skills are at the heart of concertina bellows making so there's a good chance this is relevant? "25th - 28th August 2011 *The Society of Bookbinders Education & Training Conference at the University of Warwick SoB The Society of Bookbinders' eighteenth biennial Education & Training Conference will be returning to the University of Warwick. The university is 80 miles north-west of London. It lies approximately 7 miles from the towns of Royal Leamington Spa and Warwick, with its medieval castle, and 15 miles from Stratford-upon-Avon, the birthplace of William Shakespeare. Coventry city centre with its famous Cathedral is just 3 miles away. The Society is pleased to introduce some speakers to the Conference for the first time and looks forward to welcoming members and non-members to what is believed will be a most interesting, diverse and enjoyable conference. Speakers Cristina Balbiano d'Aramengo (Italy) - Challenging Concertinas a binding structure with multiple applications Clare Bryan - Scalpel Drawing Structures (see 'The New Bookbinder' vol. 30) Mark Cockram - Alchemy of the Book Maureen Duke - Binding Sheet Music & Other Flat Material etc.......... (There are many other papers listed)" Alex West

If anyone wants an edeophone, there's one coming up at auction in the UK on the 16th April. http://www.semleyauctioneers.com. I've not seen it in person Alex West

Hammer price was £3,200 so total cost including buyer's premium and VAT was £3,776. I hope the buyer had a good look at it and knew what it was he/she was buying - it looks awfully expensive if it wasn't the genuine article Did you go Alan? Alex

The button layout looks like this one? (and similar to a Wheatstone 40 button layout) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110654722956#ht_1247wt_940 I'm no expert on Lachenal papers and bellowsgilding but this looks similar to Lachenal dspite the apparent lack of serial numbers Alex West

Geoff PM sent Alex

Sale results 1 A Duet System Concertina by Charles Jeffries (2) £3,300 2 A Baritone Concertina by Wheatstone, London, circa 1900 (1) £900 3 A Duet System Concertina by the Jeffries Brothers, (2) £3,100 4 A Twelve Sided Concertina by Lachenal & Co, London, (2) £1,400 So the prices to the buyer including Buyers premium and VAT are: 1 Actually a 39 key anglo in C/G old pitch £4,092 2 £1,116 3 Actually a 39 key anglo in Bb/F in A=440Hz £3,844 4 £1,736 I'd reckon that the C/G anglo was about right for price but the Bb/F Jeffries Bros looks a bit high for what it is. I wouldn't like to comment on the Wheatstone duet and the Lachenal Edeophone Anyone know what the numbers in parenthesis are? Alex West

I just noticed this C Jeffries at Eastbourne Auction Rooms coming up on 24th March. Superficially, it looks OK, but I'm suspicious about the font of the makers stamp and there are also aspects of the fretwork and buttons which make me wonder if this is genuine. No idea about the key. The reeds and the sound are what matter but I'm too far away to be able to check Alex

Has he pulled it again? I was sure the last time I looked that the auction still had plenty of bids on it, had plenty of time to go - and has now ended with no bids and a starting price of 0.99p. I wasn't interested in bidding, just like others wanting to see where the price went to and how the story unfolded. Maybe he got lucky and someone offered the £6,000+ he was looking for? Alex

Andrew £6,000 for a really good 30 button C/G C Jeffries, restored or with no immediate problems and in fully working condition wouldn't be exceptional I wouldn't have thought - prices might have come down if the recession in Ireland has depressed the Irish market but there are people around who have seen prices well above £6,000. Some of the instruments which clearly need a lot of work which have gone at auction or on ebay seem to have sold for prices which indicate that the repaired cost to the musician (ie auction cost, plus repairs, plus dealer's margin) are going to be at or above the £5,500 - £6,000 level. That's not to say there aren't bargains out there, and possibly this particular instrument is very nearly top-notch - unless you see and hear it, it's impossible to tell. I wouldn't have thought that a bit of wear and a missing end bolt would be very costly to replace if the rest of the instrument is in shape. If we're talking about the same instrument, I do notice that he's had some bids and that there's no indication that he had a reserve in place. If that's the case, I don't see how he can withdraw the instrument now without incurring the wrath of ebay? Alex West

Dick I'm not so sure this is a Bb/F. When I tried to play the same notes as the vendor on his Youtube video and transposed them to match a "typical" Jeffries note layout, I reckon this sounds more like an Ab/Eb. Difficult to tell whether it's in concert pitch but it might be. There are a few unusual characteristics to it for a typical pre-1900 C Jeffries (with reference to the debate in your other post on dating Jeffries). It seems unusual to have the Jeffries stamp in an oval on both sides of the instrument, the buttons look a little larger than a "normal" C Jeffries and the shape of the "flower" opposite where the thumb buttons are seems slightly less detailed; more like a Jeffries Bros instrument? - maybe this is a transition instrument? I recognise this is purely conjecture without seeing the instrument close up, but I'm reasonably certain about the key Alex West

Or from Celtic Chords for £290, though I don't know anything about that dealer other than what I see on their web site. I can vouch for Celtic Chords. The proprietor, Pete Murray is an irregular visitor here but well known in the Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire music scene and has had his business for a few years. He's an enthusiastic and skilled melodeon, concertina and guitar player, runs a good business and tries hard to give good service. I think he's only recently taken on a dealership for Wim Wakker's instruments but has placed more than one order so is getting repeat business. He knows his concertinas! Alex West

David Unless one went to see this instrument and inspected it, I agree it's difficult to be certain who made it, what key it's in, what condition it's in, how much it might take to get back in working order and therefore what it might be worth. With a "Private" listing, it's also impossible to know who bought it (unless someone here owns up) although it's possible that teh ebay "private" security might not work on mobile phone 3G browsers. Having said that, for someone with an adventurous disposition, the price paid isn't too far above what some people have paid for a 30 something key Lachenal anglo. This at least has 37 keys, a decent box, attractive wooden ends and the possibility of being a Crabb or Jeffries. Let's go mad - if it is a Jeffries and in C/G, what might it be worth in fully restored condition? The Button Box have two C Jeffries for sale right now, one a 31 key Bb/F at $9,200 and a 45 key C/G at $10,900; so let's say "ours" is worth upwards of around $10,000. At this level of value, it starts to be worth a punt - and if you were able to inspect it or get a reliable verdict from someone who had seen it, maybe this is a real bargain? Of course, as a number of us have found - getting a reliable verdict on ebay listings is often close to impossible - and the horrors when a box is opened can quickly destroy the adventure. In case you're wondering, no, it wasn't me - but it might have been if I'd been near a computer and while I think I know who might have won it, I think I should respect privacy and not speculate in public! Alex

Shaun I can't claim huge knowledge of the subject but I've read a lot about the various temperaments in an effort to understand. As I'm sure you realise (and certainly if you've read any of Paul Groff's threads I'm sure you will) it's not as simple as meantone versus equal temperament - there are a huge number of different temperaments available from the 16th century to the present day aimed at resolving or enhancing the tonal and "colour" differences between the keys we play in in Western music. (There are a whole bundle of other temperaments and aesthetics to grapple with in Middle Eastern and Chinese music as well as some experimental Western music where the scale is not limited to 12 notes!) The purpose of this reply is just to point out that Bach - at least according to most modern references - did not compose "The Well Tempered Clavier" in order to highlight the benefits of equal temperament. Current opinion is that he was promoting well temperament, (which uses one or more of the sets of temperament between meantone and equal temperament to reduce or remove the harsh fifths and wolf notes) to illustrate the differences in colour and emotion between the different keys. I hope this helps Alex

Apprentice I'm doing something similar at the moment with somewhat the same issues. You might be right about the key heights, but I think in my case, the wood has been so dry that in the ageing process, the holes have simply become bigger and the loops therefore looser in their slots. Your approach sounds OK as a fix - simply serrating the loop ends might also be sufficient to increase the mechanical grip of loop to wood; a dab of superglue would work just as well as epoxy and be slightly less messy Alex

I didn't hear all of the sales but the Wheatstone Duet went for £1800 and the Jeffries 30 button was hammered down for £2900. The Jeffries looked in good condition but was Ab/Eb so in todays' market, that's probably about right for an instrument that may need work and tuning whether you're a dealer or an ordinary customer Alex West

I've recently come across an old Crabb anglo with a card inside indicating that the box belonged to a Michael R Burn of Wimbledon, London in 1971 and that he'd restored it as a C/G, then re-tuned it to C/F for playing convenience. Has anyone ever come across Mr Burn? I was in London and on the folk scene from the mid 1970's but never heard mention of him Alex West

From conversations with the vendor, it appears that the original owner of the three instruments was a NASA engineer of German origin who worked at Langley. The stickers on the case for one of the instruments indicate that he'd been to the NorthWest Regional Folklife Festival in Seattle and was associated with Mystic Seaport in Connecticut and the Mariners Museum in Newport News so maybe there's also a connection with the sea and shanties? Who knows - maybe someone here met the owner and his instruments over the years? My reading is that this was a person who knew his instruments and bought quality; but I guess I'll never know Alex West