Dana Johnson

The Ceili is the least accordion like of the Hybrids I've seen, though most are pretty good in the mid range or higher notes, and plays very well. It is one of the first I reccommend to those who can't afford a good traditional instrument. Regarding the waxed reeds, they need no more care than any other woooden instrument should have. No wooden instrument should be left in a place where they can get hot. In the sun, in a car, in the sun from a window. The first time I dealt with this was a violin that came to me completely in pieces having been left in a car trunk for a few hours. Vintage concertinas are put together with glue that can as easily fall apart in the heat. Waxing in accordion reeds has advantages over screwing them down and visa versa. For the price the Ceili is a terriffic buy. I'd only consider another hybrid if I had them side by side and like the sound of the other better as a result of personal taste. I would also prefer the Ceili over most Lachenals for playability, and some of the other traditional instruments for similar reasons. They were never meant to replace the great Wheatstones Jeffries or compete with Dipper or Suttner, but there are a lot of traditional concertinas that don't play as well. Highly reccommended. Dana Johnson

One more thing people haven't mentioned. ( first, both sets of reeds sound good to me not somehow faulty) where the pad hole for the reed comes in the action pan can make a big difference as well. Reeds that sound under the hand sound different than ones not so obstructed. Different areas of the fretwork can also influence sudh things as well as their proximity to your ear. The different overtones don't all propagate in the same direction equally, so notes on the knee side of the fretwork may come out different especially to the players ear than ones on the Thumb side. Close placement of a microphone also can suffer similar problems. Everyone else's thoughts match my experience too. Most of the time you don't notice the timbre changes unless you are playing duplicate notes. If the timbre follows the position and not the reed, don't try too hard to fix it. Most likely you'll spend a lot of time and never really know what is causiing the difference. (Just for demonstrations sake, play a draw note that falls under the thumb side of your palm and rotate your thumb away from the end of the concertina and notice the tone change.) Dana

Most of the tuning jigs I have seen involve a shallow box with an accordion bellows attached or part of one, or a concertina bellows. Having a weight control the pressure is a good way to keep it fairly even. ( quite important.) and also at a medium playing level. The jigs generally have three or four tapered slots to fit a range of diffrerent sized reeds., and behind each slot ( with it's window ) is a chamber that approximates the sizes of the chambers used with those reeds. Initially you make an accurate tunning chart for all the notes played as evenly as you can at a middle pressure level, indicating how many cents off of concert pitch they are. Then when you tune the reeds in the jig, you change them by that amount, irriespective of the pitch thay show in the jig. I find that this approach leaves me with very little retunning to do. I always do at least two rounds of tuning this way, but NEVER treat the note played by the reed outside of the fully assembled box as a note to tune to an absolute pitch. Reeds inside the box and outside are almost never the same, pitch sometimes by a lot, and your mouth creates a cavity that is both hugely variable and entirely too subjective regarding pressure to use as a vaccuum source. (blowing through a reed gets it wet, while sucking through one only exposes your lungs to a lot of crap.) Make a jig, Tune twice and likely you'll be fine. One note, I have found that the characteristics of an accordion bellows can be too much like an oversize chamber to allow the reeds to sound. (They need a very confined airspace) so if you use an accordion bellows, you really need secondary chambers for the reed jig. Dana

If you are only tuning for yourself, spending big bucks on tuners seems a bit of a waste. Your guitar tuner won't do a good job, but I have found a few computer based tuners that will work, are accurate enough and are either freeware or shareware and can be used either on PC or Mac. They aren't ideal for lots of tuning, but I do all my first round tuning on one of these and it will both pretty reliably pick up the fundamental of even low notes and also display the harmonics as well as having a "meter" to tell you how many cents yo are off. Here is the URL for the free versions of the "Sound Color Analyzer and Tuner" for both Mac and PC, (but not the intel mac's yet it seems.)http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~tuner/tuner_e.html" target="_blank">Lets play bamboo flute this will do pretty much all you need. and there are others out there as well. I like my other tuners a bit better, but I do a lot of tuning so it becomes more affordable. If something happened to them, I would still do OK with these. The cost ends up being a small mic you can plug into your computer. Remember, you don't need to tune to accuracy less than a cent. Concertina reeds often vary much more than that under changing playing pressure. Dana

I don't use the Dexter cutter, but a different one made from an aluminum extrusion with a swing down blade (only cuts when you put pressure on it ) I have a piece of plywood with a smooth edge that I bring the edge of the board up to. ( board stock covers the plywood ) I have the cutter screwed to a delrin block that slides along the edge of the plywood and board stock. The cutter is attached so it overhangs the board by the correct width. I cut off the strip in a second or two, slide the board to but on the edge again ( against the delrin block ) and make another cut until the sheet is used up then go on the the next one. The first strip of each sheet has one square edge, but I save those for the begining and ending folds which I skive with an knife anyway to a shallower angle. ( I don't inset my bellows ends.) For me making the strips is quick and easy, but a framing shop I'm sure would oblige. I use a very hard thinner card stock made by Bainbridge or Strathmore ( cant remember which ) called "Black on Black". I love it but unfortunately it only comes in half the size of normal presentation board. so you can't cut the long strips Bob uses. Dana

check your email, it shold be there soon. Dana

This sounds like a great direction to go in. It really opens the instrument up in ways that would let you play with a lot more instruments and people. You could always switch to a second flat key instrument, but these days that might be cost prohibitive. Dana

There are plenty of poorer sounding 38 button jeffries out there. I've heard some good and more not so good myself. Also plenty of great and not so great sounding 30 buttons, Both sorts come loud and not loud. Variability in these instruments precludes making generalizations regarding tone and volume. Dana

One thought for the bellows, I like to cut my card strips with a 45 degree bevel on the edges (parallelogram cross section ) swap ends on alternates strips and lay them so that when all folded , the inner and outer peaks are actual peaks and not squared tops. This gives a nice rounded top to the finished peak that doesn't get a valley in the center of the peak when it opens up, as well as allowing any leather top run hinge applied to an open bellows more ability to bend over the peak as it closes without needing to stretch. This isn't really an issue with Bob's bellows which have very flexible leather on them, but can be with stiffer and or thicker stuff. I personally like the rounded top to the folds., and found one of those "Dexter" type 45 degree picture mat cutters or equivalent made quick work of generating the card strips. Dana

One more thing about button materials aside from the weight ( and Rich aren't most Metal buttoned Jeffries solid NS? also pretty heavy stuff, which for most of the metal one's I've seen had thin drawn caps over wood or plastic) is the friction of the button against the bushing. Delrin tends to polish in when played and get slicker. Nickel silver or nickel plated buttons also seem to stay smooth as long as they are played, as do bone buttons. I have noticed many brass buttoned (capped or otherwise ) concertinas tend to build up a sticky oxide layer that doesn't want to polish down as well and gradually increases the friction over the years. Playing is usually sufficient to keep it more or less yellow, but not to smooth it. A different alloy might help, but good deep drawing alloys may not provide good friction properties. Nickel plate seems to do the trick, but doesn't have the same look. Brass also has an annoying tendendcy to build up green verdegris in combination with finger oils, acids and the like. This rubs off in the bushings making them more siticky. Naval brass might resist this, but I don't know how well it can be drawn into caps. Dana

I've been missing the low D myself, but do use the C# very frequently ( mostly in hornpipes ) I opted for switching my low F, which because of the style I play I don't use much, and can get along without. If I played more in Bb and F and maybe C I'd have been more reluctant to let it go. I still have one open slot in my reed pan though and hope someday I can figure out a good way to use that and add one extra button on the low end past the E/F, but then what would I put with it? I do love the low D now, and won't be likely to trade it back for my low F any time soon. It is nice to be able to tinker these things yourself though!

Hey Chris, For some years I left the end buttons alone on the right side. (part of this is due to the style I play ) but both playing in A and other keys, I find myself using the middle and outer row endmost buttons considerably more. Since they are in opposite directions from the more commonly used notes, I find them quite useful for phrasing to keep the push pull breaks in places that help mark the beat or off beat. Getting that right can improve a tune noticeably over one that is played simply with the notes that happen to be underfoot. It is one of the common differences in beginning along the rows playing vs across the rows playing, that ends up with a more bouncy melodeon like style since tunes usually end up with more push pull changes forced on them. As players develop, they use alternates as much as anyone to fit the rythm better. I simply extend this out to the Press A on the acidental row and the draw B on the middle row (Jeffries layout) and find I am using these possibilities more and more. As far as dexterity is concerned, it just takes practice. Even Ross's difficulty with the outer row G# to inner row A change just needs practice to perfect. If I were more of an Octave player, I expect I'd want these notes and the F# and G buttons on the inner row too and would be loath to sacrifice them. for an individual player though, borrowing from the extra inboard buttons (thumb side) of a 39 key might be useful since I presume they were added for utility. I don't think I'd want to move the hand rest much more floorward though since it may make keeping the bellows more or less parallel in playing more difficult. The only thing about custom arangements though is more of a difficulty in resale, and Like Rich said, more experienced players tend to go back to the more standard configurations. If you think about it, all ( or most ) of the concertina styles and tune arangements were played pretty sucessfully on these. Dana

Don't worry, I remember you very well. I've spoken of you to Chris G. on occasion, and he's filled me in a bit on your somewhat enviable life. Hope your concertina turns out great. If it doesn't , I know it won't be for lack of workmanship! Our Sasafras is a coarser wood, often compared to American Chestnut which is sadly almost extinct due to a fungus imported from China. ( it once was the dominant hardwood of eastern North America) Chris said another name for your wood was something like "boodle" if the phone connection was any good. I'll look it up. Dana

Very interesting! I think I'll send this bit of information on to Chris Ghent since it relates to recent discussions we've had. Thanks, Dana

Wow! You have Sassafras in Tasmania? I had thought it was a native to North America. It grows all over here in Maryland and I have may fond Ohio childhood memories of it's fragrant mitten shaped leaves and tea from the root bark. A bit of local research for me is in order! Dana

I always love the electronic analogies since the acoustic paralells are often so remarkably similar. I am well aware of the effects of the proximity of a wall to the reed tip which for an overly shallow chamber in a concertina can produce a difference in the timbre of the push note vs the pull. The difference might be less in an accordion, and unlike most accordions, the concertina reeds are mounted paralell to the chamber top and bottom walls, so angle change isn't a variable. In concertinas, reeds often have quite a large travel when played at high volumes. Out of the chamber, reeds seem quite well behaved , but in a chamber, the feedback they seem to get can really send them swinging, and chamber depth espceially in the low reeds can be a real issue just to avoid them hitting much less getting close. I find the difference in timbre due to chamber depth is significant and can be discerned even in small amounts, where the actual length of the chamber while below a certain limit, and probably above does make an audible difference, within a certain range (for most concertina reeds) not much longer than the reed shoe, there sieems to be little change / effect. Perhaps it is because the percentage of the whole is smaller for a change in the length than the depth, but in any case, Much of the tonal refinement I've done on my concertinas has been in finding the depth that suits my tastes best. Always good to hear from you Johann. I really appreciate your grasp of the detail in these issues. Dana

Hi Richard, You are correct on this, unfortunately the chamber size is usaul quite far out of tune, still the could be tuned to match the timber and volume of the reeds. On the other hand the resonace effect is rahter uncertain without a sharp charcherristic so the amount of possibe variation in size of chamber would not result in a big change in timbre so the compromice of having two tones in one chamber is not bad, and as we all know there is not much diffence in timber if we compare push and pull. Some of the diffence is corsed by other facts as well. Regards, Johann I probabaly should let Rich clarify this, but I took what he said to mean that if the effect of the chamber was only acting on the draw reed, then adding a chamber for the press reed would put them both on equal footing, and had nothing to do with any "tuning" of chambers, which has been dealt with here too many times already to bother with now. In free reed instruments like concertinas and accordions, both reeds use the same chamber for what ever effects the chamber provides. the reed itself doesn't need to be inside the chamber, only to be connected to it. In this case, both the press and draw reeds have one side facing (relatively ) free air of the bellows and another side connected to the much more enclosed air of the chamber. Adding a chamber to a reed drastically increases it's sound volume among other things. It doesn't act as an ordinary resonator, but I currently believe has more to do with reflecting a portion of the sound wave back to reinforce the reed's motion. In this case, the dramatic difference between the free air and the enclosed air acts as sort of an acoustic mirror. It is better to think of reeds as part of the chamber wall rather than being in or out of a chamber. Dana

I believe the recommendation that comes with the gauze is for using spray mount, and elsewhere I've seen double-sided tape recommended. I think PVA would prove to be very messy & very permanent. Also very important to do any of this well away from the rest of the instrument. Spray mount!!!!!!! I hope not: Think of the gummed up key bushings, muck & crap in the fretting! I forsee the next flurry of activity will be for solvents that don't attack polished surfaces and bushing felt. can you advise how you know you got the right colour and mesh size? Dave Perhaps everybody should hold off actually applying the stuff until a bit of research indicates the way it was originaly done. Spray mount has it's place, but not on any part of your concertina. Maybe Geoff knows something about this process. Dana

I like the clarity of this method, and while having to deal with customs to straighten out a mistaken charge is mostly not worth the effort, at least you have paperwork to back you up. Regarding the VAT / duties etc. We'd all like to have these already expensive instruments at a more affordable price, and having 20% tacked on for seemingly nothing on the part of the government adds insult to injury. It is worth remembering ( as many do ) that the governments services be it pensions, health care etc. are not free ( as it may sometimes seem If you go to the hospital and recieve no bill afterward ) but are simply pre paid. So in this case, you buy a concertina and a (pre paid ) doctors visit for the carpal tunnel syndrome or RSI you develop from practicing too much. It all comes out in the wash. I think if we were generally happier about the way our governments spend our money, we would be less reluctant about giving it to them, but that is a different issue. Since I'll be facing this general situation soon, I am glad to see this discussion. Much as I'd like to help a customer out, It feels like respecting the process is the way to go. Much of this discussion is only because of the VAT / no VAT issue bewteen the EU and USA. Disregarding the already favorable position of the Euro vs the Dollar, If you were purchasing from a dealer in the EU, you'd be paying the VAT regardless. Dana

Few people actually rustle up the money for their SUV's or any vehicle for that matter except on a five year payment plan with the Auto loan industry which is quite pleased to get another person in debt to them. Getting a bank loan to buy a concertina somehow doesn't feel as justifiable as a new SUV (after all here you need to drive to go just about anywhere) and the kazillion gallons of gasoline that natually go with the thing. I know what gets my money, and it is powered by a cup of tea or a pint and a sandwich and lots of air to feed the reeds. Dana

That is exactly what happened. On small reeds especially, it is easy for pieces of anything to get stuck near the reed root where the gap goes to zero under the clamp block. My suggestion is to use a single edge razor blade or some other thin shim to lift the front half of the reed a bit. (just slide it under the reed from front to back until it doesn't want to go further, then use the point of a scalpel or narrow craft knife to gently drag out the offending piece of junk / paper from the underside of the reed shoe, not the top. It doesn't matter which side the stuff falls out, but using the point from the bottom poses less risk of damaging the tight clearance top edge of the reed window. Use a magnifying glass to get a better idea of what you are looking at. Clearing it should be quite simple, but you need to use the shim under the reed to take the pinching pressure off the junk in the reed before it can be moved. Often once the pressure is off, a puff from one of those canned air duster things for computer keyboards etc. will blow the stuff out. The paper under the reed method can caues problems like you have had if the original offending bit is too close to the root of the reed. It is easy for things like this to raise the pitch especially in a higher reed, and they can sound quite clear. Dana

For beginners who Noel wants to get used to a particular set of primary buttons and bellows directions, Noel has a fixed set. Once you get used to that set, He gives you some general rules of thumb to branch out to alternate fingerings, and demonstrates these in different tunes he teaches. Generally in the first week long classes he only introduces G and D tunes. The next time you may get some A tunes as well. He also teaches "middle row tunes" and tunes that are in E, F and Bb along the way as well as all the modal and minor things. And despite the impression the person you mentioned had, Noel uses ALL the notes on his concertinas, and you are expected to learn to do that yourself once he has given you the foundation and principles for choice of where to play a note. You simply haven't gotten that far in only a couple off weeks of classes with him. After thirteen years of NHICS, I use all the notes. and have been for a good while. Dana

I'd second much of what Ken says. My experience of teachers who don't stress a fingering style still use one, and while alternate buttons are available and may not change the tunes much in the way they sound, the fingering styles tend to lend themselves towards different types of ornamentation and chord choices. In styles that grow out of "along the rows" playing, octave playing is very natural (though it is easily picked up in a different style). Chords that fit more naturally in those styles tend to be a bit more "major key" rather than the less defined ones from "across the rows styles" Either players can do what ever they want, but the chord possibilities that require little or no change in the way you are playing the melody make the tune style gravitate in different directions. People like Edel Fox have had a number of teachers. There are a number of tunes on her new CD that are right of the pages of Noels classes, and others that are in a completely different style. My current favorite young player, Alex Reidinger, learned mostly from Grannie Hambly more known for her Harp playing, but a terriffic concertina player as well. Alex has also had a few lessons with Tim Collins and Micheal O'Raghallaigh, but it is clear that she is already bringing her Harpist sensabilities with harmony and counterpoint into her playing that will give her something quite special. Had the chance to play with her last week, and it was a rare treat. Helped to drive home to me why I want to make concertinas for people. Find the music you currently like the best, and try to get a teacher who can do that at least reasonably competently. I prefer teachers who can tell you why they are doing what they do rather than those who just say that is how they learned it. I found a number of things from Micheal O'Raghallaigh's playing that I like to incorporate into my quite different style, but having a solid grounding in the first, let me appraise the alternatives for what they had to offer. What I notice about the different fingering styles is that they generally are self consistent, and even though they may use a different set of primary notes, choose their alternates for the same sorts of reasons, and aside for the natural flavoring the styles give, none really limit the music in any significant way. Think of them all as starting points and your playing as something that will grow with your own deepening sense of the music. Dana

Colin's instruments are a treat. His reeds are and have been since at least the 1987 one I had a very good look at and all beyod that, are extremely well made. His reed pans make a great match for them. Consider yourselves lucky that his prices still don't compare to what a really good violin will go for, and lucky that a concertina is still mostly considered a folk instrument, or you'd be paying a minimum of 20 K for them ( doesn't matter whether it's Euros or Dollars.) This all to Colin's great misfortune. If you want lower prices, try making them yourself and see what it really takes. If the concertina ever really takes off, prices will go down with an infux of actualy good Chinese instruments, , and those of us who have worked hard to make these things will, (if we are lucky), be able to concentrate on making the instruments we can only dream of. Dana PS. Alex Reidinger stopped by the other day and she is way better in person than the sound clips she has on her web site. Keep an eye out for her!

I don't share Noel's fingering charts. I do have my own that I use with my own students. Rather than reducing Noel's income, I prefer to be a feeder for his classes. What Noel has to offer isn't his fingering, which is an excellent system, but his knowledge of what it takes to bring out the most in the music. I've been to his classes for thirteen years, and sadly won't be able to make it this summer. I have always found more to learn every year (often things I didn't ever realize existed at first). I always leave the class with more respect for Noel's efforts and commitment to the music. Noel has been gracious enough to pass along what he has learned. His students will teach others, and that is as it should be. Dana