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ritonmousquetaire

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  1. ritonmousquetaire

    Duet concertinas - why such a large overlap?

    Thanks to everybody for the very interesting remarks! I do agree that one does not need to bound himself to the original intent of the instrument, yet it is interesting to understand why an instrument was designed in a particular way. I still wish that duet makers would make them with a greater range - but at least now I understand why they are the way they are.
  2. ritonmousquetaire

    Duet concertinas - why such a large overlap?

    The harpsichord was actually my first instrument, and I also play the reed organ. When I started playing the concertina - a 20-keys anglo I got by chance - I first attempted to play the pieces I had learnt on the harpsichord. This did not bring me very far, but I did play a rather floppy arrangement of the first part of Rameau's Rappel des Oiseaux, and could also play the first bars of Couperin's Les Barricades Mystérieuses - although I had to transpose it in G to make it fit. Playing baroque music on the concertina isn't my focus anymore - I'm more in oom-pah music now, but since these days I've kept the idea that a concertina with more buttons should also allow me to play these pieces in a more satisfactory manner. But to attain this, range is an essential factor, and I always find it frustrating to see that most duets don't have the range a 56-keys EC or even a basic anglo can attain (although, in the latter case, there are many gaps between the lowest and the highest notes). Though the overlap is necessary, I feel the range should have priority. John, your remarks on the term "duet" are very interesting. I have to admit I hadn't given that much of a thought, but your idea that the real consideration of duet systems designers was to provide two voices pitched an octave apart and that the overlap is simply a consequence of that choice definitely makes sense. Actually, I feel you answered the question I had asked in the title of this thread!😀 Yet, I still have one question : looking at the old duet methods available on the internet, I had the feeling that the left hand was often used in a quite simple way, often providing basic accompaniment to the right hand's melody work. I haven't seen many pieces taking advantage of the "vocal duet" style you mention (though I should maybe have a better look) - do you have any references for duet arrangements using these characteristics?
  3. ritonmousquetaire

    Duet concertinas - why such a large overlap?

    Well if you record these pieces one day I'd be glad to hear them.
  4. ritonmousquetaire

    Duet concertinas - why such a large overlap?

    Of course, I guess you don't feel any limits with your 88-keys duet! But when playing on your 57-keys Maccann, you have to find a way to get around them - or do you keep the direct adaptation of keyboard music for your bigger instruments? I haven't checked the sheet music, but you're probably right about Bach; when playing his music on piano the music rarely - if ever - goes below the second C below middle C. As for Rameau, I know of at least one case where the B below that C has to be played : it's in his Rappel des Oiseaux - one of my favorite pieces on the harpsichord -, in a passage where the descending bass is played in octaves. Have you ever played Rameau's music on the concertina? I'd be curious to hear some records if you have any!
  5. ritonmousquetaire

    Duet concertinas - why such a large overlap?

    No need to apologize! I found our discussion in the other thread very interesting and thought that this specific point - the overlap - deserved a thread on its own. The ability to play baroque directly from sheet music on a concertina is sort of the ideal thing to me - I get that an overlap is necessary to reach that goal, considering that on a piano keyboard, the hands are not strictly limited to one side or another. Indeed, having a large overlap naturally offers the players more possibilities, and, as you said, reduce the need to arrange. But on small instruments - the 46-keys Hayden layout for instance -, to what extent should the overlap be prioritized over the range? Isn't not being able to play notes below C3 a greater problem when playing directly from sheet music than not being able to play relatively high notes with the left hand? I get that larger instruments can have both the range and the overlap, but I feel - and that's pure feeling here, I don't have playing experience to back it up, hence this thread - that when having to choose between them, having a larger range - especially in the bass - would allow the player to have less work to do on adapting the lower staff of a regular piano sheet music. Yet on most duets the overlap was chosen over the range, and I still struggle to understand why this was the case, especially on small instruments. In your experience, when playing from sheet music, how do you handle the notes that are too low for your instrument?
  6. Hello everybody, in another thread we had a short discussion about the overlap on the duets - I'm always surprised to see how even in small instruments with not many buttons the builders seem to favor the overlap over the range. Looking at the layout of a Stagi 46-keys Hayden concertina [ archive for previous link if it doesn't work] for instance, one can see that both hands share almost a complete octave. While the presence of an overlap is of course understandable - user ocd gave a good explanation here, I have the feeling here that increasing the range of the instrument - which in this case doesn't even have three fully chromatic octaves - should get the priority over the ability to play "high" notes with the left hand. Of course a small overlap is necessary, but in this case, where the instrument is limited in the bass to the C below middle C, is it really a priority for the user to be able to play such a high note as B4 with the left hand? Wouldn't it be better for the left hand to start a little bit lower, say at G2, so the overlap is still present - yet in a reduced form - and to keep a larger overlap for the larger versions of the instrument? I'd be curious to hear the opinion of duet players on the matter. Would you prefer a larger range for your instruments, or do you feel that a large overlap is a better option?
  7. ritonmousquetaire

    Regondi-ing the duet?

    Alex Holden > Thanks for the link! So with this mention and Little John's post here, it seems that this double-decker technique was definitely used, though it was probably rare. Little John > Interesting! Do you have any pictures of that instruments? How does the double-decker reeds impact the sound - if they do? ocd > Yeah, on a small instrument I guess it's either the range or the overlap - both have their utility I guess... It seems that most duets favored the overlap, while the opposite way was chosen for the anglo (the overlap - on the 20-keys version of the anglo at least - is present but very limited in range; on the other side the extreme notes of the instrument are almost 4 octaves apart).
  8. ritonmousquetaire

    Regondi-ing the duet?

    Right, I hadn't really thought about that. I didn't know about these "double decker" reed pans, do you have any pictures of such instruments available on the internet to look at? Only 4 reeds - I don't know why, but I thought the difference would have been bigger! Yet without any overlap, such an instrument could theoretically only use 49 keys... but the lack of an overlap might be a problem for the player. Did anybody ever try to create a layout that would keep the notes on both sides like the english, but in a manner that would make "duet-style" playing easier?
  9. ritonmousquetaire

    Regondi-ing the duet?

    5 octaves - that's as much as a reed-organ or a spinet; the ideal range to me. I guess you don't ever feel any limit when playing this instrument! The only thing is, these duets, judging from the photos in the thread that Wolf posted - thanks Wolf! -, seem to be huge! You lose - sort of - the "small instrument" vibe that you can get with a 56 keys (four octaves) EC... I wish there were more small-sized, four-octaves duets available. The only ones I know of are the ones built by Wim Wakker, but they are very expensive.
  10. ritonmousquetaire

    Regondi-ing the duet?

    ocd > Thanks for your answer! A 88-keys Maccann, wow, that must be quite a beast! I wasn't even aware that such instruments had been built in the past. May I ask you out of curiosity what its total range is?
  11. ritonmousquetaire

    Arranging Music for the English Concertina by Frank Butler

    Thanks a lot for uploading this! A very interesting book for sure.
  12. ritonmousquetaire

    Regondi-ing the duet?

    Hello everyone, I was looking at Regondi's compositions for the english concertina (notably at the music available on Ivano Paterno's excellent website (click here if the previous link doesn't work) and on Danny Chapman's page ) and started to wonder : Regondi was considered as one of the best composers and arrangers for the EC. Considering that he set a good example of what was technically doable on the EC (and that he did compose some lovely music - the 1st and 4th parts of his Hexameron come to mind), did anybody try to attain a similar level of virtuosity on the duet? For instance, - are you aware of any player who tried to play Regondi's music on the duet - as written or in an arranged form (which would often be necessary I guess, since most duets surprisingly don't seem to have a range at least as large as the one of a basic EC)? - Did some duet players try to use Regondi's EC arranging techniques - his use of a fast counter-melody played simultaneously with the melody, as in the Hexameron (1st and 4th part) or his arrangement of Home sweet home (from his Recollections from Home)? Do you know of such duets arrangements that were ever published? - In a broader way, who in your opinion is the Regondi of the duet (regardless of the duet type)? Are there any methods available for instance that go as far in the exploration of what is feasible with the instrument as Regondi's New Method and his Rudimenti del Concertinista? I have seen some tutors that were quite good, such as Rutterford's one for the Maccann system , yet I wouldn't consider it as elaborate as Regondi's. Curious to hear about your thoughts on the subject! Best, RM
  13. ritonmousquetaire

    Wheatstoe Duet

    Thanks! Do you have by any chance a version with notes on staff or something like that?
  14. ritonmousquetaire

    German Speaking Detailed Web Page

    This guy is a good player, and makes some of the best arrangements for the 20 buttons anglo out there, with a nice, full sound. I tend to play in a similar style - I would have loved to have such a page available a few years ago. It's a good synthesis, and I like the fact that he shows the player what notes are available on the push and on the pull separately - understanding the instrument as having two keyboards (one on the push and one on the pull) is key to progress.
  15. ritonmousquetaire

    Wheatstoe Duet

    34cm wide, quite a monster! I'd be curious to see a keychart...
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