wes williams

I think maybe there is a distinction here between sailors and fishermen. Its obvious from Ireland that they were very closely connected to the fishing industry on the West Coast, and a Dutch friend remembers them being played by fishermen in her childhood, in the 1950s. I've recently come across a photo of a Maccann Duet which the caption attributes speculatively to use on a Cape Horner.Swansea Heritage As to the concertina being rare on land, it really depends on what period and location you choose. Stephen has commented on the height of popularity of the German instrument in the 1860s, but then we also have the Concertina Bands of the turn of the 19th Century, the Salvation Army use, etc. Lachenal seems to have produced around 200,000 anglos roughly between 1860 and 1935, so they must have been fairly common, even if we only have few references to their use.

Rod, Have a look at this. Its fairly frequently quoted as evidence that concertinas were used on ship (its a 'spy' report on the crew of 'The Alabama', an American confederate ship, in Liverpool,UK). Personally, I think it shows that the concertina might have been used for general entertainment, but I've never seen anything to support the public perception of the Captain Pugwash style use. http://www.lib.ua.edu/libraries/hoole/digital/cssala/spy.htm

I rather hope that there may be much more about concertinas in South America to be discovered. One of Roger Digby's anglos has a dealers stamp from Buenos Aires, and in 1961 the Sunday Times reported that Wheatstone had received an order for 500 instruments from Bolivia. Where are they now?

It was the same over in England, Wales, and Scotland. The cheaper German made instruments were popular as starter instruments, and anybody who took up an interest was able to buy a better quality instrument later, although some players preferred to stick with their German boxes. My observations were based on the 'earliest' concertinas in Ireland rather than traditional music, and I doubt very much if the early expensive English system instruments ever reached any traditional musicians, although Jones's supply of anglos to Scates show that there was a healthy anglo counter-culture in Dublin in the early 1850s.

Thanks Malcolm! I've got the cassette, and it says that Mullaly only recorded 10 sides (March 1926 (2), November 1926 (4) and June 1927 (4)) so having even one side publicly available is a great intro. Perhaps someone could persuade Harry Bradshaw to do a re-release? The cassette notes say the instrument was sent for servicing for the Nov 1926 session. The first concertinas in Ireland were probably English system - Regondi's tour of 1834 probably started an interest off, and Joseph Scates moved to Dublin around 1851. But George Jones' first major order (as manager for Jabez Austin) was for anglos from Scates in Dublin.

Just found this :- Recorded on November 22, 1926 in Camden, New Jersey. Mullaly plays the concertina and is accompanied by the piano of Edward Lee on this version of a medley of Irish reels. According to Philippe Varlet and Richard Spottswood, Mullaly was the only Irish concertina player to be recorded prior to World War II. Here: http://www.archive.org/download/Greengrove...ovesOfErin_.mp3 You'll also find Lea Nicholson's Concertina record on the same site, which I think has come up here before.

I answered a similar question over the phone a few weeks ago, so can add a few details: Joseph Wallis is listed at 133 & 135 Euston Rd from 1867 onwards (Union St before), and was J.Wallis & Sons from 1887. The first Lachenal trademarks to be seen are around serial number (anglo) 47000, so the label here seems be of a later date than the instrument.

Stuart: Alf Edwards died 24th March, 1985 at St Bernard's Nursing Home, Worthing. The ICA newsletter for July 1985 carried this (extract): Frank Butler writes...... Not many of the present ICA generation will have met Alf Edwards. His likeness on the cover of his Tutor for the English Concertina is a good one of him in about 1955. I have only hearsay to guide me when I say that he came from circus forebears and that both he and his wife, Jeannie, were of Scottish descent. He never spoke of his musical training but his ability as a performer was backed by sound musicianship. Although with a world-wide reputation as a Concertina player - most deservedly so - writing music and playing the trombone probably provided the backbone of his living. Around the New Year he was much in demand in London hotels to play bagpipes, a distinguished figure in the kilt.....

Internally the 1701 serial appears again, so we can't expect a numbering error. Rather than to and fro here, I'll contact Stephen and we'll see if we can sort this out and come back with some kind of answer. But suggestions welcome here meantime!

That sounds very strange, Lachenal was already producing his fully-developed "mass-production model" (with round-ended reed shoes) by #1563 (so probably from the beginning of the 15xx series). What an interesting turn - I'd thought of the square end reed shoes of 1701 as 'normal' from Neil Wayne's observation on his collection: ... and the early squared—end reed beds are replaced by rounded—end beds after instrument No 1775. I'm fairly sure 1775 was the well-known ivory ended instrument, so worthy of individuality in manufacture. But 1701 is a simple rosewood 48K with no special characteristics. A puzzle! Added: I've just been looking at the outside. The final '1' of 1701 seems to be an addition - it is more heavily indented, and out of line to the '170' which is very linear. Its almost as if the initial 170 was varnished over, and the final one added after. Four of us 'experts' looked at it for those 'baffle' pictures (I won't name the other three!), and noted nothing unusual. Screwdriver time tomorrow!

Paul - I think the leather case versus the wooden was probably dependent on the model. If you look at the price list here (circa 1890 - 1900?) you'll see an example. Added: And we shouldn't forget Stephen's typing exercise in this thread.

In terms of verifiable numbers, its pretty near. We have a handful of reports from 64000 to 68000, but nobody on the project has ever seen a number this high, and Chris's wide experience of reading these numbers has shown that quite a few get misread when he asks the sellers for them. And Ken - the avatar is the original Dorset Ooser from at least 150 years ago, now sadly lost, brought out at this time of year to frighten the good folks around Melbury, and said to have sinister magical properties, which seem to be working even here. Lots of info on the web.

Actually Wes, that is a fairly early example of machine-cut fretwork, which started around #1500. It shows what I was trying to describe when I wrote of the normal small "cross-shaped oval" opening for the number on instruments built by Louis Lachenal. Stephen - thanks very much for those gems of info. I'd assumed that the simpler fret was cost cutting, rather than machine cutting. It makes 1701 a bit more interesting, as it has square end reed shoes, so it must represent what Lachenal was doing before he machine made the whole instrument. Although its been apart a few times (perhaps only on the left?) its never been systematically examined, so perhaps there might be some initials waiting to be discovered. The fret pattern is exactly the same as Robin's in the picture above.

And perhaps we'd better answer Paul's original question: The 350,000 comes from Neil Wayne's Free Reed magazine, early 1970s. I believe that the original quote came from Tommy Williams, and it was '350,000 30 key anglos', which does seem to be stretching things a bit too far. But so little was known 30 years ago, that anything and everything needed to be noted, and its only recently that we can get a better idea, through being able to exchange and seek info via the net, worldwide. Look at all the mistakes I made, and the lack of info, only a few years ago when this site first started! Just under 201,100 is the highest serial number reported so far, and the instrument has all the features of a very late model, so a misread is not suspected. We've also had similar reports over 200,000 so giving further weight to this figure, which also includes some JEDcertinas. In terms of English, the numbers go a bit over 60,000 and duets are almost 10,000 although I believe that Crane and Maccann numbers were initially two seperate series, so perhaps nearer 12,000 duets were actually made ( or numbers allocated?). Grand total: circa 275,000 Lachenal concertinas, and around 0.5% reported.

Not exactly weary, but when I put so many 'don't take anything here as gospel and allow at least 10 years either way' caveats into the article, it gets annoying when some bright spark claims elsewhere that their concertina was made in exactly 1877 because I've said so! As to not publishing any revisions here, but elsewhere, thats not correct - I've probably started at least ten revisions of the article for publication here (where else?), and each time they've been delayed for one reason or another. I managed to get the section on 'other makers' substantially updated a few years back, and stuck that up on a site I get free from my ISP, as an interim update, meaning to finish the whole later - but failed Currently I'm stuck again - I'm waiting for Stephen's Lachenal article to go up on the ICA site, and our joint Jeffries article to get posted - otherwise what I've written may not make sense, and/or I may be jumping the gun and publishing before the main source has. Its difficult!! So, 'cos its Christmas, here's the almost current (but pre-Stephen's 'Lachenal Part 2', which you can apply from above) version for Lachenal Anglos: Serial/ after - before 1..1500 1858 - 1864 1500..3200 1858 - 1867 3201..15400 1858 - 1878 15401..25200 1861 - 1878 25201..44700 1872 - 1878 44701..46999 1876 - 1878 47000 1878 - 47001..51000 1878 - 1881 51001..80600 1878 - 1887 80601..92000 1881 - 1887 92001..140500 1885 - 1896 140501..144400 1895 - 1897 144001..152600 1895 - 1918 152601..172000 1897 - 1918 172001..187400 1904 - 1918 187401..196800 1904 - 1927 196801..201071 1926 - 1935 So 105,000 is estimated 1885- 1896. But Paul's misread, even when he has some experience, is typical of the problems that face us with so many reports of instrument serials!

Perhaps I can expand on Stephen's description with a picture - sorry its so poor. This shows the pine baffle with the serial number on Wheatstone 1701, which is probably a hand-cut model. There are more pictures of the innards in the 'Baffles' article at the Maccann Duet site.

I failed miserably to add a 'new' newsletter every month, but I've now caught up and added another 10, the rest of 1969.

Oh yes we have! He's behind you, Al!

Ah, so its something I'm likely to discover on my next photocopying trip. I didn't manage to copy all the Newsletters held at the Horniman, and after a whole day at the copier (and £35 lighter, so about 700 pages) I still had roughly 40 to do from No 180 to 220. No 204 was Jan 1973, and 214 Jan 1974. Alan - that issue, and some from around the same period, will be posted up in the ICA members private area soon. Hope you find some other memories.

I know Jim has a lot of ICA work on his plate - in contrast, I've just finished scanning the batch of ICA Newsletters I copied at the Horniman a year ago, so I'm free to annoy you all, and leisurely catch up on all the other things I should have done!

I haven't yet come across the account of Stephen's meeting with Jim, but I've recently scanned a few Newsletters more and found this in No 251 (Sept 1977): The July Meeting This was held on July 30th at the Conway Hall. I have no count of the number of members present, but there were at least fifteen. We opened with concerted music:- the Minuet and Trio from Haydn's Surprise Symphony, and Heart's Ease by MacBeth. First soloist was Michael Kruger from Sydney, Australia, who played a large fragment of the Rondo a la Turque by Mozart (unless my memory is going), and then a small piece of 'Tina Polka by Alf Edwards. Alan Day, another newcomer, played Planxty Irwin and Monks March. I think the second had more to do with General Monk than a religious. Next, making a welcome return, was Richard Carlin from the States, and he played Banks Hornpipe, and the Poppy Leaf Hornpipe. I think Richard is over here on a study visit, and will be around for a few months at least.

Jim Harvey was a very keen recorder of concertina music, and the ICA is lucky enough to have rediscovered around 3 hours of these tapes via one of our c.net members. We don't have any idea of who the recordings are of - although Jim's son Maurice probably features in a few - but they include classical and popular items played by solo and concerted players. I've only just started transcribing the tapes to CD, and they will require further processing to improve their quality, but perhaps the ICA may be able to revive some of your memories in the future.

Bill, Sorry, but I missed this first time around. On Myers, the first two items *may* be related, but the rest almost definitely are: 1843 Myers, John Frederick aeolophon and volti subito manufacturer, 83 Charlotte st. Fitzroy sq ??? 1856 Edward Myers, Mount St,Whitechapel rd (Bankrupt concertina dealer!)??? 1856 Myers, Emanuel 7A Crown Row,Walworth rd 1865 Myers E. 1 Black Prince row, Walw. rd S 1869 Myers Emanuel, 27 Walworth rd SE 1882 Myers Emanuel, 27 Walworth rd SE 1884 Myers Emanuel, 27 Walworth rd SE Nice to know he was rebadging Jones! Thanks ..wes

Quote from Dating update (other makers and dealers) Henry Harley The instruments made by Henry Harley are some of the most distinctive in the Horniman collection. In 1882 he is listed as operating from 22 Brunswick Place, City Road, N. London.

Although BBC radio, national and local, is abysmal in its coverage, I think we have to give a big thank you to whoever runs BBC 4 TV. I've seen music, not necessarily folk, but always quality stuff, almost every Friday night for the past two years. Last week and tonight its Brecon Jazz festival - last week was the Cuban female singer from Buena Vista Social Club - and we had a Bob Copper documentary a few weeks back, Cambridge FF, Waterson-Carthy, Aly Bain & friends, John Martyn, etc, etc. All pretty much under the Jazz and Roots category, and hardly a whisper of anything 'country'. For around £50 for a Freeview box, its well worth it - if you can get it in your area!