Tradewinds Ted

Tony, I'm sorry to hear about your Dad. I'm not an expert, but those look like Chemnitzer concertinas. While a few people here will be familiar with these, most people on this site will be playing Anglo, English, or Duet Concertinas, which are different from each other, but more importantly they are also different from the ones you have. So hopefully you will get some useful advice from the helpful people here, but you might find more directly useful information from www.usconcertina.com as it is primarly concerned with the Chemnitzer concertina. Good luck!

No need to go over the pond. If you are taking a trip north, the Music Room in Cleckheaton (Yorkshire) stocks both Morse and Marcus instruments so you could compare the two.

Thanks! Not quite what I'm looking for, I think. But very tempting. Good luck with it. (traditionally, you will now find a buyer just before I change my mind. )

Chris Algar - Barleycorn Concertinas, will do valuations for a small fee, and also buys, sells and repairs concertinas. Located in near Stoke-on-Trent, and on the web at www.concertina.co.uk Chris is well known to many members here. Theo Gibb - The Box Place - does repairs and deals in concertinas, and melodeons/accordions as well. Located in Gateshead, and on the web at www.theboxplace.co.uk Theo is well known here, and often participates in the discussions here. The Music Room, in Cleckheaton is a music store that does a significant trade in new and used concertinas and melodeons/accordions. They have a nice music shop with many instruments, so plenty to look at if you get up there. Jon would be the guy to talk to there. On the web at www.themusicroom-online.co.uk Just based on the number of buttons, I'm guessing that these are most likely English system (same note and out on the push & pull) and not Anglo system (different note on push vs pull) but maybe they could be a Duet system instead? It is a good idea to have an expert look these over to give you a good description of what what you have, and a good idea of the value, the condition, and what it would take to re-condition them, so you know what to expect when you sell them, and you know what to tell prospective buyers about the instruments. In any case good luck! As for selling on eBay, i've seen instruments sell for a great deal of money, while others go for hardly anything. The condition matters a great deal, and information is very important as well. If the instrument is in poor condition, or if you can't answer people's questions well enough to reassure them of the condition, then don't expect to get much from eBay. But a good instrument that can be shown to good effect should do well. You might want to offer them in the buy-and-sell forum here first, or at least post a notice with a link to an eBay posting.

Could you confirm the button layout? 1) Does the partial row match the corresponding buttons of the Jeffries 30 B layout? I'm assuming that because the right hand side has no button for the index finger where the Lachenal layout would have the C#, but thought I would check. 2) What are the notes for the lowest button the G-row - This is another place where there is some variation - normally B on the push, but can be A, C or D on the pull?

I was first aware of some sea shanty performers who played on the anglo system. But a friend had a musty but otherwise functional English that I was allowed to borrow for a while. I didn't get on with it at all. The hand position was torture - wrong in so many ways! The idea of alternating sides to complete a scale was bizarre, and i just couldn't get used to it, given the very limited time I could even stand to have the instrument in my hands. (although the musty smell made me a bit more reluctant as well.) I admire the sound that can result from the ability to play a sustained harmony against whatever melody because there is no limit on notes available with bellows directon. But not for me. So when I found the anglo in the shop, I knew something about what the choice I was making. At first the bisonoric thing was disconcerting too, but the instrument seems to love being in my hands, so it didn't take long to be able to sort that out, at least most of the time. I'm gradually getting used to choosing the the best fingering to keep the bellows balanced, and choosing whether to make the phrasing smooth or choppy, if possible. Since my favorite instrument is a 20b anglo, it is often frustrating to be limited in which keys I can play on a diatonic instrument, and I get annoyed with not having the accidentals needed for some tunes and even in the preferred keys, which are common in jazzier styles of music. I started reading an playing music with piano, and have played a number of other instruments, so I do notice the absence. But this past year I bought a 30b as well, so I can use that if I need to play the odd notes. Actually I was already somewhat accustomed to the restriction in available notes on a diatonic instrument from playing whistle, so that isn't really a new thing, and it isn't often a problem with traditional folk tunes, which in England at least are often in G major anyway. I suspect that I would like a Duet system, but I'm stuck in on Anglo now, as I'm never giving up my dear little 20b anglo if I can help it! Edit: This anglo - although tuned to modern concert pitch, is apparently not in equal temperament, and but perhaps some sort of mean tone tuning. I've not had it analyzed, but the 4ths 5ths and thirds all sound very rich and sweet. So that makes it all the more endearing.

Happy to learn I was wrong about the Hobgoblin cases. I can't seem to post a link to the product I'm seeing on Amazon. They look to be very light duty so they might look too cheap, and they might not last. On the other hand, not at all expensive at $3 or less for 12 and free shipping in the USA, so maybe worth a punt. Try searching Amazon.com with the key words "silicone baby corner guard"

It looks to me like those corner guards are actually a texturedand painted soft metal, rather than rubber or plastic, although I haven't seen the actual cases to know for certain. Interestingly, the smaller concertina case has a slightly different corner shape, which looks more like it could be rubber, although that might not be true either. I would think you could fashion nice corners from leather, starting with a an equilateral triangle, soaking it it water, then screwing down each corner of the triangle onto the three faces of the case, and allowing it to dry in place to take the required shape. But probably worth trying it out on a piece of scrap wood first to test it. Alternatively, I saw some clear silicone corner guards that might work on Amazon.com

I am particularly interested, as I will be moving back to the USA in December. My two Lachenals have bone buttons, but the older one (1890s?) is Rosewood, and the newer one (1920s ?) is Mahogany, or at least that is how they where described when I bought them, and that is what they appear to be, to my untrained eye. I don't know if it is possible to tell one type of rosewood from another. Does the age of an antique have any relevance, as one of these is estimated at over 100 years old? What documentation is required? I don't have any provenance for these, so nothing to indicate the source of the wood used, and the ages are only estimates based on serial numbers. How could I get an instrument "certified" prior to the move if that is possible? Or more pessimistically, how could I learn ahead whether an instrument fails certification, and is at risk? If the newer instrument is a problem I would prefer to sell it before I move, and eventually use the cash toward having a new instrument made instead rather hazard a fine or lose the instrument. The older one I don't ever want to part with, but I still would not want to risk having it destroyed.

Ross is correct in his advice above. But by coincidence the Music Room in Cleckheaton is listing a used Stephanelli instrument in your price range. This is one of the cheaply made ones from China, and I haven't seen it so I can't say what it is like, but Cleckheaton is close enough to York you could have a look at it. A poor instrument can be discouraging, but maybe you'll be lucky and it will be good enough to suit your purpose. They list a special internet price, but I would guess they would likely honor that in person if you mention you saw it online. They have a number of other instruments you could compare it with, Including the Rochelle model mentioned above, and some much nicer hybrid models, and some antiques, so you can see the difference in sound and feel that the different construction can make. www.themusicroom-online.co.uk then select Squeezebox, then Concertina, then Anglo Good Luck!

Thanks Jody. I'll be interested to see this when it becomes available.

Anybody want to comment on that prototype? I'm very curious! I wish I could have been there. I hope (I'm certain) that everyone had fun! I certainly enjoyed NEFFA when I was in Mass. although I was more involved in learning dances then, and didn't play concertina at all yet. Now I learn that NEFFA moved to Mansfield - I used to live and work there back in the mid 1990's, and could have walked to the festival! (but of course the festival was in Natick back then.)

Thanks for that link. These are very interesting! My musical journey has been crabbing sideways through song and dance and playing various instruments in various genres. I agree with the idea that seeing the dancing greatly informs the playing of the tunes set for the various dances.

A lot depends on what you are looking for. What key: C/g or maybe G/D? You mention this is for your 12 year old daughter. So are you looking for something less expensive for a child? or something extraordinary? or maybe something to fit small hands? Also, you mention metal ends, how strong is that preference? (I'm actually curious, because I prefer wood ends myself.) That said, I have nothing to sell. But these guys might, although most not local to London: - Theo Gibb - The Box Place - I've had no dealings with him, but great guy on these forums, and well regarded. http://www.theboxplace.co.uk/purchase/concertina/cat_13.html - Chris Algar - Barleycorn Concertina, also well regarded - I've bought a Lachenal from him. Doesn't list stock on his website, but you can contact him. http://www.concertina.co.uk/Anglo-Concertinas.htm Also frequently lists on ebay, seller name cocoa111 - The Music Room, Cleckheaton - great shop, good variety of melodeons and also carries Marcus and Morse concertinas in addition to vintage ones -http://www.themusicroom-online.co.uk/index.php/cPath/244_250_253 - Hobgoblin - multiple locations, I know the Manchester store. Also sells on ebay sometimes. http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/sales/470/Anglo-Concertinas/?Disp=all&Category=470 Edit: If the links don't lead you to something, then you might try posting in the Buy & Sell forum instead of general. Be as specific as you possibly can about what you are looking for; you'll likely get more attention than a general plea for just some anglo concertina. Good Luck!

I've actually been to the Concord Scout House dances when we lived in Massachusetts years ago, and highly recommend them. Talented musicians and lots of experienced dancers. But looking around a bit, there is also a song session at the Skellig Irish Pub in Waltham, and possibly a tune session later on into the evening. I've never been there, but apparently it is easily reachable on the T - and Waltham is closer to the center of Boston than Concord is. http://www.bostonsongsessions.org/ Join Lynn Noel, Jeff Keller, and friends in an open sing at the Skellig Irish Pub Fourth Tuesdays, 7:00 - 10:00 PM no cover -- no age requirement 240 Moody Street, Waltham, MA (781) 647-0679 Waltham Center T-stop ~12 min. from Porter Sq. by Commuter Rail "Based on a traditional English pub sing, but with a bit of an American flavor, this session is open to all singers who want to join in, with chorus songs that are easy to learn and fun to sing. We love the fine old drinking songs and know plenty of sea chanteys and chorus songs from the British Isles and New England, but anything goes as long as it's fun and has a chorus or refrain that people can pick up. Bring a song to share! In Lynn's words: "We love pub singing for its spontaneity, its rich harmonies, its sweep-you-along sense of communal participation, and above all its energetic joy." We'll be in the back room. Show up at 6:00 to join us for dinner. BTW, we have excellent relations with Larry Reynolds' acoustic Irish session in the front room (starting ~9pm), so if you play a suitable instrument, you might want to bring it along for that."

A couple of contra dances in the Boston area - Concord is a bit out of the center of town, so you would need a car. Edit: Apparently the Scout house is 3/4 mile walk from the Concord Center commuter rail station on the Purple Fitchburg line, so you might not need a car. Concord, Massachusetts - Mondays: Concord Scout House -- 74 Walden St., Concord, MA . Route 2 to Route 126 (4 miles west of 128), north 1 mile. Hall is on left before Congregational Church. Plenty of free parking (but not in the church lot, please!). Walk-through instructions for all dances; beginners and singles welcome. Please bring a clean pair of shoes to change into for dancing. Dance is from 7:30-10:30pm. General Admission: Adults $8 ($3 after 9:30 pm); Age 22 (and under) $5. For more information call (781) 272-0396 or (978) 369-1232. Cancellations only when the police advise against all driving. Please DO NOT park in the church lot next to the Scout House. Web site: http://mondaycontras.com. Concord, Massachusetts - NEFFA Thursday Night: All dances at the Scout House, 74 Walden Street, Concord.7:30pm-10:30pm -- $8 ($5 for people 22 and under). Please bring soft-soled shoes! Info: (781) 272-0396 or (508) 229-2854. This dance is sponsored by NEFFA. We will cancel the dance if Concord declares a snow emergency, or if we feel that weather conditions would make for unsafe travel. No animals (other than service animals) are allowed in the building. Web site: http://www.neffa.org/Thurs.html.

I strongly advise that you get your hands on a decent instrument of each type. It is likely that one style will feel more natural to you. To start just try sounding out a simple tune you know completely, like "Twinkle Twinkle:Little Star" or maybe a Christmas carol. The initial point isn't to demonstrate how great a musician you are, but to get a feel for the instrument. I borrowed an English from a friend and the whole system of alternating notes from one side to the other felt odd to me. The thumb strap and pinky rest also really annoyed me. My background playing other instruments would suggest that I would want the flexibility to play in any key (and I do) but the English concertina and I just don't get along. The Anglo on the other hand suits me. The bisonoric nature does one a little batty, but I found it soon started to work. The diatonic nature of the rows is both a blessing and a curse. The home keys (usually C and G) are very easy, and flow out of the instrument, and harmonies just offer themselves up right where they are wanted. The farther you get from those keys the harder it is to find the notes you want. I started with a 20 button, which I still prefer to play, but some notes simply aren't there. That is less of an issue than I feared because so many English folk tunes are played in G, and D. But other people have exactly the opposite experience, with the English cosying up to them and purring while the Anglo fights against them. The point is try both before spending any money.

A friend of mine back in the USA bought a Tedrow Baritone C/G and received it last spring. He is delighted with it, and does use it to accompany singing. I had a chance to try it out only briefly last time I visited, but I liked it very much. I usually play more toward the low end (left hand) anyway because I prefer the sound there. With the baritone that puts the melody very low indeed, and so I would use it to work the melody back into the right hand like most everyone else apparently does with the standard box, and save the bass notes for chords. I saw a used Tedrow baritone listed for sale over here on the site for the Music Room in Cleckheaton last autumn, but I hesitated a couple days while I considered the money involved, and by the time I decided to go for it, it had already gone. I then phoned Bob Tedrow to see what his waiting list looked like, but at the time he wasn't taking orders because he felt the waiting list had become too long.

I've been reading comments about Pete on the banjohangout.org forums yesterday and today, and reminiscing with a smile, yet with tears welling up. It suddenly occurred to me that I don't think I ever met him in person, but only seen recordings of him performing, and yet I've had so many good friends share his songs ever since I was small, that I somehow feel as though I've known him all my life.

It is very helpful to have the diagram to refer to when you get stuck, and particularly helpful if you write it out yourself, since that process can help set it into your memory. But the really helpful thing to do is to try playing new tunes. Of course it is easier if they are in C or G major, or A or E minor so you have the necessary notes if you are on a 20 button C/G. If you read music, then trying to sight read will be frustrating at first, but after a while it really builds the memory of where each note can be found. Another very useful practice is to pay attention to where the notes are duplicated on the other row, and play through tunes several times trying to make use of these alternate fingerings. This makes it even more frustrating at first because often a note on the push in one row will be in on the pull in the other row, and it is easy to get the bellows going wrong when trying the alternative. But again it pays off later because you will eventually be comfortable using either option, so you can choose which fits into the phrasing and fingering of a tune. It just takes a while. I'm nothing like comfortable with some combinations yet, but I've already seen some benefit from trying this.

The rules for this kind of variation aren't rigid at all In some circles it is traditional to play the tune a little differently each time through, which complicates the matter a bit. The idea is to make the tune more interesting, without creating a distraction. I play Irish music more on the whistle, where there are several different techniques for leading into melody notes, such as cuts and slides, which further complicates the decision on what to do. Some of these don't really apply to the concertina, but the dilemma of choice is basically the same. There is a tendency for beginners to add too much, and the tune gets lost, or at least is starts to lose any life. Start off learning to play the tune straight. Once you can reliably play it though cleanly and with feeling, then try adding in extra grace notes and such, either wherever you feel they might fit, or by listening to others play either live or from recordings, but go ahead and try them as many places as you want at this point in your practice. Once you can reliably play these variations cleanly, then try playing the tune straight again. Then go back and and sprinkle in just a few grace notes wherever they just beg to be there, and don't necessarily even add these few every time. The goal is to be able to play the tune either way when you play with others, responding to whatever else is happening with the players around you, and what has gone before. Have fun with it!

I would suggest you learn to play the tunes in the given key. Note that I didn't say "row" It is valuable to practice using both rows as called for, so you know where the notes are, and where the duplicates are. That way you can eventually make use of this to choose which button to use to free up a finger or to match the desired bellows direction. (edit: I do tend to play C tunes primarily in the C row, and G tunes primarily in the G row, but in both cases I do borrow notes from the other row. Davy Davy Knick Knack is a good tune for learning. Not sure where you would find a written arrangement, but if you have the melody line and the basic chords you could puzzle out something reasonable. Work on the melody first. Later, when that is comfortable, try adding harmony, primarily using the notes in the given chords. You may find that you need to reassess which buttons you use for the melody in order to allow the desired bellows direction for the harmony. Relearning the melody line with adjusted fingering may seem like wasted effort, but really you will be expanding your facility with the instrument the whole time. (edit: later on you may want to work out the harmonies at the start when trying out a new tune, then fit the melody fingering to suit the bellows direction, but for now, start with the melody. Also, brief passing notes that aren't in the chord are acceptable in the harmony, not just in the melody, so sometimes changing the bellows direction to suit the melody and letting the harmony line come along for the ride works just fine.) Don't get too wedded to the idea that the melody line is in the right hand and the harmony is in the left either. Often the melody sits comfortably in the range crossing the two sides, so both hands are involved. In fact, if you know a melody line using only the right hand, try playing it an octave lower sometimes too, as an alternative. All the required notes should still be available, and there will usually still be some room at the far left for some simple harmonies. Have fun playing around with it!

I saw that same comment, and recognised it immediately. My cat used to avoid us when playing any musical instruments, but over the years has learned to ignore piano, guitar, banjo. The standard high D tin whistle range is still a bit high for him, but the low D whistle is fine. But he looks up with concern when I pull out the concertina case, and leaves the room if I pull the instrument out and begin to play. Generally he will scratch at the carpet at the start of the stairs in protest, then race upstairs in search of a quiet bed. Mine is a Lachenal with steel reeds, so it isn't just the accordion reeds that do it. We have a friend who plays Northumbrian pipes, which is another free a double reed instrument, and the cat doesn't care for these either. This friend also plays banjo. They used to have a dog who didn't object to either instrument, but it turns out the dog was deaf. (edit: Peter - Thanks for pointing out my error)

It isn't great to pull on the bellows without a key pressed to allow air in. I don't know how tight your case is, but you can keep the bellows stretch to a minimum if you turn the case over with one hand and sort of "pour" the concertina into your other hand, instead of pulling the concertina upwards out of the case. Congratulations on your new instrument!

The answer is yes. I'm a relative beginner, but I find use for the first two methods, and occasionally the third. Which method to use will depend on the phrasing within the tune, and the desired phrasing. You will notice slight differences in timing and sound quality, and each is appropriate in different places. When playing harmony the bellows action will affect all notes of course so that if you want the harmony to continue, then you'll need to just use the button to repeat the melody note. On the other hand, using the bellows to create a "chugging" rhythm while holding a chord is a great effect. If just playing a melody line then you have more freedom, so consider which will allow you to get the desired timing. Edit: Oh, and sometimes there is a fourth method: Find another button in another row to play the same note the second time. This is particularly handy if the harmony or phrasing would suggest a change in bellows direction anyway, or if you need to free up the finger from the first button to use it on a following note in the melody. But you may notice the difference in the sound from the different reed.