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George Roe, C19Th English Concertina Teacher, Composer And Arranger


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#1 malcolm clapp

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 11:48 PM

Just wondering whether anyone has any biographical information on this gentleman.

 

I recently had occasion to examine for a friend an un-numbered Wheatstone 56 key English extended treble. Inside was an inscription "GR" and an address at "19 Cumberland Street SW"

 

I Googled the address, and found a listing under concertina teachers for George Roe at that address on page 9 of Prof Maccann's Concertinist's Guide.

 

Browsing the Wheatstone ledgers, I searched for George Roe and found # 18518 from 1869, with description "hired".

 

Not really conclusive proof that the concertina to hand was indeed #18518. As we know, some numbers apparently never made it into the ledgers for whatever reason. Also, as a teacher, it is possible that, like Sr Regondi, Mr Roe purchased other instruments for students' needs. It is also conceivable that GR is not, in fact, the George Roe mentioned in the ledger, though I can find no other purchaser with those initials other than, of course, Giulio Regondi, but I can't tie his name to the address in the concertina.

 

However, this concertina does seem to fall into the correct time frame (Chidley period, riveted steel reeds etc.) and probably one of the top models available at the time as befitted a professional musician (black lacquered rosewood ends with silver tipped buttons).

 

So the balance of probabilities...etc.

 

I can find little information on Google, other than that George Roe had a brother, Henry who also played, and that Roe's main instruments were flute and piccolo. Also some sheet music claiming "arranged by George Roe", some for concertina, others for flute.

 

Does any one know whether George Roe has been the subject of past research, and by whom? (Seems pointless hunting for information if the work has already been done!) Also, any further biographical information would be welcomed by me on behalf of the concertina's current owner.

 

Thanks for reading this; I hope it may be of interest, but if not, I apologies for the length of the post.


Edited by malcolm clapp, 13 September 2016 - 02:22 AM.


#2 wes williams

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:28 AM

Hi Malc,

 

The name Roe rang a bell, but my mind wanted to relate it to a female. So I nipped over to Allan Atlas's Ladies in the Wheatstone Ledgers and found some Roe family names there (Lady Roe and Mrs Roe). Maybe they are related?  http://www.concertin...x.htm#aalil-all



#3 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 10:26 AM

Malcolm, what I know,

 

George Lowe Roe.

Born: 4th November 1839 to John Roe (Musician) and Susanne ? 

Married: 26th May 1863  Occupation: Musician, to Catherine Morgan.

1881 Occupation: Teacher of music.

1891 Occupation: Professor of Music.

1901 Occupation: Musician.

1911 Occupation: Musician.

Died: October 18th 1913, Aged 74. Address: 19 Cumberland Street, Pimlico. London, SW.

Effects value £2049 1s. 2d. to Catherine Roe, widow.

 

Geoffrey



#4 malcolm clapp

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 02:58 AM

Hi Malc,

 

The name Roe rang a bell, but my mind wanted to relate it to a female. So I nipped over to Allan Atlas's Ladies in the Wheatstone Ledgers and found some Roe family names there (Lady Roe and Mrs Roe). Maybe they are related?  http://www.concertin...x.htm#aalil-all

Thanks Wes, but I feel that the construction of the concertina is of a later style than of those relating to the two ladies. That aside, I think we can discount Lady Roe, probably Lady Mary Roe (nee Knowles), wife of Sir Frederick Adair Roe, unless we can come up with a relationship between Sir Frederick and George, though they seem to be from different walks of life, so perhaps unlikely.

 

As for Mrs Roe, not too much to go on. Certainly not the wife of George or Henry (see Geoffrey Crabb's post above).

 

Interesting link though....saved for future research....and thanks for your interest.

 

Edited to add that Mrs Roe could be the second wife of George and Henry's father, John. See later post.

Also, to add a line omitted in my clumsy copy & paste regarding Lady Roe.


Edited by malcolm clapp, 08 October 2016 - 05:35 AM.


#5 malcolm clapp

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 03:25 AM

Malcolm, what I know,

 

George Lowe Roe.

Born: 4th November 1839 to John Roe (Musician) and Susanne ? 

Married: 26th May 1863  Occupation: Musician, to Catherine Morgan.

1881 Occupation: Teacher of music.

1891 Occupation: Professor of Music.

1901 Occupation: Musician.

1911 Occupation: Musician.

Died: October 18th 1913, Aged 74. Address: 19 Cumberland Street, Pimlico. London, SW.

Effects value £2049 1s. 2d. to Catherine Roe, widow.

 

Geoffrey

 

Many thanks for the information, Geoffrey.

 

I would be interested to know if Mr Roe had a connection with your forebears, or did you glean that information from the net (electoral records or similar)?

 

I have had problems getting into a number of potentially useful UK web sites for this sort of information, but receive  "not available in your country" or similar errors. Mr Google obviously doesn't trust my motives, and I have tried other search engines, but to no avail. I've tried using a so-called "free" proxy server, but after 5 or 6 searches, they start demanding money....Any suggestions?



#6 John Wild

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 04:09 AM

Mr Google obviously doesn't trust my motives, and I have tried other search engines, but to no avail. I've tried using a so-called "free" proxy server, but after 5 or 6 searches, they start demanding money....Any suggestions?

 

appoint an agent!  :)


Edited by John Wild, 14 September 2016 - 04:09 AM.


#7 lachenal74693

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 04:36 AM

...receive  "not available in your country" or similar errors...Any suggestions?

 

I have had problems like this when downloading files while connected to the internet via an ISP with servers

located in another country.

 

For example, I have found that certain BBC podcasts will not download if connected via servers hosted in

Ireland (domain name .ie).

 

This is for actual downloads, not simple connection as you describe, so maybe it's unrelated.

 

Just a thought...

 

Roger


Edited by lachenal74693, 14 September 2016 - 05:41 AM.


#8 Anglogeezertoo

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 02:30 PM

Not exactly biographical, but WORLDCAT at www.worldct.org credits him with the following compositions :– 

 

Andante and Scherzo. Original Solo for the Concertina with Pianoforte accompaniment by George L Roe published in 1887 


Recollections of England; fantasia brillante for the Concertina with an accompaniment for the Pianoforte by George L Roe published in 1875 

Gavotte in G for the Concertina with an accompaniment for the Pianoforte by George L Roe published in 1879 

Up in a Ballon. Schottische. Orchestra by E. Frewin. [Orchestral parts.] by George L Roe published in 1860

Heart's fond affection. Song written and composed by John Hutson. Symphonies & accompaniments by George Roe  published in 1869 

Elfin polka, Piccolo obligato. [Octet band parts.] by George L Roe published in 1877 

Elfin Polka, solo for Piccolo or Flageolet with Pianoforte ... accompaniment by George L Roe published in 1877 

Scherzo (l'oiseau) solo brillante : for piccolo or flute and pianoforte by George L Roe

Love of England ... Song ... Symphonies & accompaniments by G. Roe  published in 1869

Manhood and Youth. Song [begins: "The time's ne'er forgot"] ... Symphonies & accompaniments by G. Roe  published in 1869 

Elfin polka by George L Roe published in 1877 

The Lights o' London. Serio Comic Fantasia. [P.F.] by George L Roe published in 1882 

Les deux rossignols = The two nightingales : polka de concert : for two piccolos by George L Roe

The Chief of British Pastimes. Song [begins: "The pastimes of old England"]. Symphony & accompaniment by G. Roe 
 
regards
Jake


#9 pauline de snoo

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 03:29 AM

The first three pieces mentioned by Jake: Andante and Scherzo, Gavotte in G and Recollections of England are mentioned in Wheatstone's Catalogue of music for the English Concertina or Aeola. Numbered 2331, 2334 and 2335

Besides there is a gentleman named Henry Roe in this Catalogue who also wrote music for the concertina numbers 2338 Rigoden de Dardanus on old French Dance and 2339 Welsh Airs.



#10 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 07:41 AM

Regarding Henry Roe as mentioned by Malcolm and Pauline,

 

I have compiled the attached notes based on records etc. available at ancestry.com

 

 

Attached File  Henry Franklin Roe.doc   24KB   119 downloads

 

 

They may be of interest to some.

 

Geoffrey



#11 pauline de snoo

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 08:30 AM

Thank you Geoff for this information. Interesting for CW!



#12 Will Moore

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 08:55 AM

I pay for a premium VPN that allows for connection from multiple other countries - if anyone would like to DM me a link they are struggling with, I can take a look and see if I can extract the content you are after.

 

If you want to do it yourself, check out wwe.zenmate.co.uk for the VPN I use :)



#13 Anglogeezertoo

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 12:11 PM

I pay for a premium VPN that allows for connection from multiple other countries - if anyone would like to DM me a link they are struggling with, I can take a look and see if I can extract the content you are after.

 

If you want to do it yourself, check out wwe.zenmate.co.uk for the VPN I use :)

Ooops!  try www.zenmate.co.uk

 

Jake



#14 Will Moore

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 03:34 PM

 

I pay for a premium VPN that allows for connection from multiple other countries - if anyone would like to DM me a link they are struggling with, I can take a look and see if I can extract the content you are after.

 

If you want to do it yourself, check out wwe.zenmate.co.uk for the VPN I use :)

Ooops!  try www.zenmate.co.uk

 

Jake

 

sorry - bad typing :) :P www.zenmate.co.uk



#15 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 08:33 PM

Ahagh, I thought so! :D

 

I was sure I had a George Roe manuscript (that came, via Harry Minting, from Wheatstone's), but I didn't have a chance to look for it until tonight.

 

It's that of his "Fantasia, Recollections of England. Solo for Concertina with Piano Forte [sic.] Accompaniment" - though his original title for the work was evidently "Fantasia on Old English Airs", which has been crossed out on the concertina part and erased on the title page, and replaced. There's also an interesting footnote on the title page that reads *M.S. Orchestral Accompaniment can be had of the above Solo, as performed at the Peace Jubilee, Boston America, on Application.*

 

The event in question would appear to have been the World's Peace Jubilee and International Musical Festival of 1872 that took place in the Back Bay area of Boston, Massachusetts. Patrick Sarsfield Gilmore directed the festival, which honoured the ending of the Franco-Prussian War and lasted some 18 days. There had also been a National Peace Jubilee, also organised by Gilmore, in Boston in 1869.



#16 malcolm clapp

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 03:05 AM

 

Hi Malc,

 

The name Roe rang a bell, but my mind wanted to relate it to a female. So I nipped over to Allan Atlas's Ladies in the Wheatstone Ledgers and found some Roe family names there (Lady Roe and Mrs Roe). Maybe they are related?  http://www.concertin...x.htm#aalil-all

Thanks Wes, but I feel that the construction of the concertina is of a later style than of those relating to the two ladies. That aside, I think we can discount Lady Roe, unless we can come up with a relationship between Sir Frederick and George, though they seem to be from different walks of life, so perhaps unlikely. As for Mrs Roe, not too much to go on. Certainly not the wife of our George (see Geoffrey Crabb's post above), but he did have a younger half-brother, Henry....

 

Interesting link though....saved for future research....and thanks for your interest.

 

 

On reflection and from further reading, it is possible that Mrs Roe, purchaser in 1853 of #1132 in the Wheatstone ledger, may have been George Roe's step-mother, Elizabeth Ann Roe, nee Franklin, married in 1848, and a lot younger than her musician husband; there are newspaper references to "soirees" held at their home.

 

Young George would have been 14 at the time this instrument was purchased, and Henry just 9. They may well have started playing when quite young as there are references to "the Masters Roe" in one newspaper report. So maybe #1132 was purchased for one (or both) of them.

 

Pure conjecture of course....



#17 malcolm clapp

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 03:07 AM

Stephen, thanks for your interesting input.

 

I have sent you a PM.



#18 JimLucas

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 05:49 AM

On reflection and from further reading, it is possible that Mrs Roe, purchaser in 1853 of #1132 in the Wheatstone ledger, may have been George Roe's step-mother, Elizabeth Ann Roe, nee Franklin, married in 1848, and a lot younger than her musician husband; there are newspaper references to "soirees" held at their home.


Small world! I have played #1132, when its then-owner lived in Vancouver, British Columbia (Canada). I believe it now resides either in B.C. or nearby in Washington State.  I'll look into that.

 

I mentioned it in this post in this old thread.






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