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Jeffries Scam On Ebay


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#1 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 04:45 AM

I have just spotted the details, and photos, from the listing for the 4,000 Jeffries, apparently lifted and posted by a scammer in Canada. It is Item 3730227283. The supposed "seller" is a "newbie" on eBay, who accepts "wire transfer only".

(Would you buy a used Jeffries from this B) person ?)

I have already reported it to eBay.

#2 JimLucas

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 06:22 AM

(Would you buy a used Jeffries from this  B) person ?)

Would you get a used Jeffries from that person?

#3 Mark Stayton

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 10:10 AM

Would you get a used Jeffries from that person?

You might get a picture of a used Jeffries. Oh, wait, you can already get one of those for free.

Gee, I guess you really can sell anything on eBay. :rolleyes:

#4 JimLucas

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 11:08 AM

Gee, I guess you really can sell anything on eBay.  :rolleyes:

Some people, it seems, can even sell nothing on Ebay. :P

#5 Mark Stayton

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 05:11 PM

Some people, it seems, can even sell nothing on Ebay.  :P

Yes indeed. Just do a search for "air guitar". Why, you can even buy strings for your air guitar! :D

#6 Paul Read

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 05:25 PM

I checked with the original seller. They have sold the instrument to the 3rd high bidder. They didn't know about the scam.

I've asked the new seller if I can come round to look at it as I'm in B.C. (not really). Should be interesting! (I had also told ebay)

#7 JimLucas

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 06:16 PM

I've asked the new seller if I can come round to look at it as I'm in B.C. (not really).  Should be interesting!

Since I do have some concertina friends in BC, I'll be curious as to where they say they are.
But I doubt that's where they're really located.

#8 malcolm clapp

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 08:45 PM

I checked with the original seller.  They have sold the instrument to the 3rd high bidder. 

So it is off to Japan. Another potential member for the INTERNATIONAL Concertina Association! :D

#9 Chris Ghent

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 09:12 PM

[quote name='malcolm clapp' date='Jun 14 2004, 12:45 PM'] [/QUOTE]
So it is off to Japan. Another potential member for the INTERNATIONAL Concertina Association! :D [/QUOTE]
And presumably for about 3660/ $9600 AUD/ $6640 US.

Chris

Edited just for the sake of it...

Edited by Chris Ghent, 13 June 2004 - 09:13 PM.


#10 Paul Read

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 09:12 PM

OK,

Here is his reply to my request to try the instrument:

"Only after a deposit is paid in advance"

Hmmmm, must rush down to Western Union. Would 10% be reasonable?

#11 Chris Timson

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 01:24 AM

So it is off to Japan. Another potential member for the INTERNATIONAL Concertina Association! :D
And presumably for about 3660/ $9600 AUD/ $6640 US.

Or 736,074.43 yen. Actually there's quite a thriving little community of Japanese concertina players playing both English and Irish music in Japan. We'll be meeting one of them (Maki Koizumi, who has a beautiful Dipper G/D) and her family again next month.

Chris

#12 A.D. Homan

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 10:58 AM

The frustrating thing is that the "seller" has masked the bidders' IDs so that no one can email them to let them know that the auction is fake. So far, there appear to be 2 bids.

In other similar cases, when eBay refuses to take action, "vigilantes" from forums such as ours have taken action into their own hands, bidding items up into the millions so that no innocent bidder gets stuck with the scam. Instead, the seller's ebay account is charged with a ridiculously high fee. Apparently eBay discourages such vigilante actions and will suspend your account if you take action in this way. (There was a case where a fake mandolin was bid up into ridiculously high prices by vigilantes, for instance.) In the opinion of some users, EBay seems to be afraid of negative publicity and appears to avoid closing down these auctions in a timely manner, presumably because it damages the overall credibility and sense of trust that is a prerequisite of the success of the online auctions. However, at this point it seems irresponsible for them to continue to offer features such as concealing bidders' IDs and allowing for "Western Union only" as a form of payment.

#13 Aquarussell

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 02:25 PM

Has anyone told the Canadians? It's illegal to scam people there, I think. The police in B.C. might like to know about this.

#14 A.D. Homan

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 03:16 PM

Has anyone told the Canadians? It's illegal to scam people there, I think. The police in B.C. might like to know about this.

The scammer is not likely to be truly located in Canada.

If you want to read more about this type of scam:
http://www.maineanti...uzz/buzz168.htm

#15 JimLucas

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 03:38 PM

In the opinion of some users, EBay seems to be afraid of negative publicity and appears to avoid closing down these auctions in a timely manner, presumably because it damages the overall credibility and sense of trust that is a prerequisite of the success of the online auctions.

Their credibility and trust in my eyes would be a lot higher if I could see them shut down fraudulent auctions. Even better, if I could read in the paper that they had helped jail such thieves, instead of telling them, "Please go out the back door and come back in the front before you steal from anyone else."

Reminds me of some years ago when the New Jersey legislature decided to hold closed hearings into its own members' involvement with the Mafia, "lest the public lose faith in the integrity of its members". Any such faith I might have had disappeared with that statement!

Does anyone know if eBay has yet been named in court as an accessory to theft for refusing -- or simply failing -- to shut down a provably fraudulent auction?

#16 A.D. Homan

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 08:56 PM

Does anyone know if eBay has yet been named in court as an accessory to theft for refusing -- or simply failing -- to shut down a provably fraudulent auction?



That's a good idea -- perhaps the poor soul who has already bid on this scam Jeffries would care to be the one to do it!

I guess we could all start by bombarding eBay with requests that they eliminate the "hide bidders' ID" feature.

Second, when one of us puts an item up for sale, the image should be "watermarked" so as to make it more difficult for scammers to reuse.

And as tiring as it is to continue to point these auctions out, the vigilance of concertina.net readers and posters does play a role in helping... but I still think it would be funny if we bid the damn thing up into the millions, if eBay doesn't remove it soon!

-Andy

#17 Robin Harrison

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 09:57 PM

Andy..can you tell me how this "Watermarking" works.I've never heard of it before.
Thanks Robin

#18 JimLucas

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 12:51 AM

Does anyone know if eBay has yet been named in court as an accessory to theft for refusing -- or simply failing -- to shut down a provably fraudulent auction?

That's a good idea -- perhaps the poor soul who has already bid on this scam Jeffries would care to be the one to do it!

I've just thought of another technique, but I'm too chicken to try it myself: What if somebody else put up yet another an auction copying the same text and photos, but adding the following text:

IF THIS LOOKS LIKE A COPY OF AUCTION #xxxx, THAT'S BECAUSE AUCTION #xxxx IS A DIRECT COPY OF PREVIOUS AUCTION #3726784692. AUCTION #xxxx IS A FRAUD.

This "auction" was created to warn those bidding on auction #xxxx, since that auction has been configured to make it impossible to contact its bidders directly.

If you have bid on auction #xxxx, you should contact eBay immediately and ask them to investigate that auction, and DO NOT PAY any money unless and until you are sure that auction is legitimate. (Auction #xxxx is not, since the instrument pictured is not in the "seller's" possession. It was already bought by someone else, in auction #3726784692.)

If you have any doubts, feel free to ask the "seller" of this auction for further details.

This auction does not actually have an instrument for sale, either, but was created in order to warn people about fraudulent auction #xxxx. It will be withdrawn once auction #xxxx has either ended or been removed by eBay. We are sorry that you cannot get a lovely Jeffries concertina from us, but at least we don't expect you to pay us a large sum before not getting it.

Sorry about using "auction #xxxx" instead of the real number above, but I neglected to record that number earlier, and the auction does seem to have disappeared.

Edited by JimLucas, 15 June 2004 - 02:45 AM.





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