Susanne Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I wonder what you would suggest someone who can't pay a fortune for a beginner instrument. I want to buy a concertina but don't want to pay a lot. What would you suggest? I read that Stagis are not well made, and all other concertinas I've read about cost like 20000 SEK and up. I didn't even pay that for my mandolin upgrade this summer (and I've played mandolin for 9 years) and I don't want to spend lots on my first concertina. I can upgrade later, right now I want one that I can learn on. Really, I have very little money but I can't wait to get started..I've browsed around on the internet and it seems quite depressing finding a cheap concertina... Is it impossible? Is the concertina a rich man's instrument? Or are there cheap but ok beginner instruments out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I had a Stagi NL15 for my first instrument. Like you, I didn't have a lot of money to spend. and I was very happy with it. (I played it merrily for two years before I upgraded) Stagis are not to everyone's taste, but I found it a great first instrument. What you didn't mention is whether you were after an Anglo or an English concertina. The prices between the two can vary quite a bit. Cheers Morgana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 The Jackies from Concertina Connection seem to be pretty good for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi, I'm still quite new to concertina, started out with a Chinese anglo which is just OK. It works...got a 30 key Stagi from the Button box and it's very nice, I would recommend one definitely for someone on a budget however make sure you get one from a place like the Button box where they make sure everything is working correctly otherwise you may have problems. I played a Stagi at a store locally that had not been 'tweaked' and there was a big difference! Waiting on 2 other concertinas to be built for me and the Stagi was a great choice to hold me over and take on the road with me and it sounds very nice! If I only had my Stagi I would still be happy and playing every day....Just my 2 cents worth.....Good luck! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) ....I can't wait to get started..I've browsed around on the internet and it seems quite depressing finding a cheap concertina... You seem to have concertina-fever already even before playing.. ... Is it impossible? Is the concertina a rich man's instrument? Or are there cheap but ok beginner instruments out there? When you are talking about mid-range and top-rnage instruments, the Anglo is more expensive. I join the advice of Morgana, but maybe first you should contact Pontus Thuvesson or Jim Lucas to see and feel the different instruments and get some good advice. Edited November 6, 2005 by Henk van Aalten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightfield Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) At the risk of being repetetive, the Jackie is fine for a beginner if a bit on the large size. I've got one that's a year old and its pretty faultless as a beginners model (apart from the size!) - its the second on the left here (I'm not sure what the other three thought of this young whipper-snapper in their midst). Edited November 6, 2005 by brightfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanne Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) You seem to have concertina-fever already even before playing.. I do!! I've played some button accordion and I love it, but I like the sweeter sound of the concertina and the size, so that's what I want. I primarily want an anglo, because I like the sound of that more than other concertinas, and can be played in more keys. But I may change my mind after trying other types of concertinas. I'll try to visit Jim Lucas (seems closer than Stockholm) and try some before buying. Does Morgana and Jackie concertinas have a website I can check out? Edited November 6, 2005 by Susanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightfield Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) Does Morgana and Jackie concertinas have a website I can check out? Morgana doesn't make concertinas as far as I know! She's a contributor here. Jackies are supplied by Wim Wakker of Concertina Connection who provides an excellent service. I ordered one on a Sunday and had it in my hands on the Wednesday. The nice thing about the Jackie is that it comes with tutor book to show you how to play it. Its English system of course. Wim also does Anglos but I've no idea what they cost. Edited November 6, 2005 by brightfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) Does Morgana and Jackie concertinas have a website I can check out? Morgana's website can be found at: http://ptollemy.tripod.com/ and her story about her concertina-fever is recommended! The Jackie (an English concertina) can be found at the website of the The Concertina Connection, or go direct to the concertina page of the site. Edited November 6, 2005 by Henk van Aalten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 When you are talking about mid-range and top-range instruments, the Anglo is more expensive. Top-range vintage instruments, yes. Modern mid-range instruments, no. Not in the prices I've seen. Morse concertinas from The Button Box: ... 30-button Ceili anglo - $1750 ... 37-button Albion English - $1925 (treble or baritone) Geuns-Wakker concertinas from Concertina Connection: ... 30-button anglo - €1800 ... 48-button treble English - €2100 ... 48-button baritone English - €2500 The modern mid-range concertinas seem to be priced according to the amount of work that goes into them, with no premium charged for the anglos just because they're in greater demand. The same seems true for new-made top-range concertinas, e.g., those made by Suttner and by Wheatstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I primarily want an anglo, because I like the sound of that more than other concertinas, and can be played in more keys. Yes the sound may be different, but the Anglo system is not able to play in more keys than others. 30-key Anglo, English, and McCann and Crane duet systems are all fully chromatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 (edited) Here's my take on the cheap end of the Anglo market. I hope that anyone who has information that contradicts what I say below will chime in... First, used instruments: I started out (25 years ago) with a used Italian 20-button--there's one on eBay now that looks much like it at http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-ITALIAN-CONCER...itemZ7364265275 . It worked well enough to get me started and to realize in a few months that I needed more buttons. I moved up to a used Italian 30-button much like the one at http://cgi.ebay.com/CONCERTINA-BASTARI-MAD...itemZ7363995422 and played it for several years before buying the restored English-made concertina (most likely a circa-1880 Crabb) that's still my primary concertina. My Italian concertinas (would have been called Bastari-made at that time, though neither had the Bastari name on them) were satisfactory to me at the time given my budget and my lack of certainty with how far I would go with the concertina. I didn't consider a used German-made concertina back then because they were not (and still are not) easy to find here in the US. Used German 20-button concertinas are much more common in the UK than they are here. They generally seem to have a worse reputation than Italian concertinas--Scholer in particular is a brand that most players seem to want to avoid. But there are some decent German-made used concertinas out there--I recently picked one up from someone in the UK (probably a Galotta, in D & A) that's got a nice tone, though it's a bit stiff to play and could use tuning. If you're willing to spend significantly more money, the bottom end of the used English-made Anglo market would be a 20-button Lachenal or possibly a Jones. Based on recent eBay prices you'd probably be looking at $500+ for one in decent working condition--and you'd still only have a 20-button concertina, but probably one with good resale possibilities if you decide later to give up the concertina or to move up to a 30-button. If you're interested in a vintage English-made instrument and want to make sure you're getting something in playable condition. your best bet is to contact a reputable dealer, such as Chris Algar of Barleycorn Concertinas (see http://www.concertina.co.uk/ -- I believe he sells on eBay as cocoa111) to check on current stock and prices on these or on the somewhat more expensive Lachenal 30-buttons. And new ones: The cheapest new Anglos these days are Chinese-made, which show up on eBay under various brand names. They're available with 20 or 30 buttons. Some of them are marginally ok as starter instruments but many don't play properly at all, and I don't know for sure of anyone who deals in them at the moment who can guarantee to sell you one that actually works. Hohner sells a Chinese-made concertina which might be more likely to work than the unknown brands--but I think that you have to pay extra for the Hohner name over non-Hohner Chinese concertinas and you still have a pretty junky concertina in the end. New Italian Anglos--20 & 30 button--are usually sold under the Stagi name now. Opinions seem to vary as to how they compare to the older Bastaris--the new higher-end Stagis that I've played myself are mostly a bit nicer than my old 30-button Bastari was. There are also new German-made concertinas available now too--20-button only, so far as I know. They're being sold in the US mainly under the Castiglione name. One problem with Italian concertinas (and I believe Chinese ones too) is that their internal construction (how the reeds are placed relative to the bellows) makes them sound a bit more like weak accordions than concertinas. This was true of my old Bastari, and so far as I know it's true of today's Stagis too. My German 20-button Galotta (and I believe other older German-made concertinas) has more of a concertina-type construction and therefore a more concertina-like sound. I don't know if this is true of the new German-made concertinas, as I haven't had a chance to play or hear one. If you want a new concertina that's better than a Stagi (aside from the possibility that the new German 20-buttons are better than the Stagi equivalents--see http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...indpost&p=29336 ) the next step up would be a hand-built concertina with concertina-type construction and accordion-type reeds. Makers are Herrington, Norman, Marcus, Edgley, Morse, Tedrow and Geuns-Wakker. I believe the lowest-priced of these is Herrington, who seems to currently charge $1500 for a standard 6-sided 30-button and less for a square one. And then there's the not-yet-on-the-market concertina: Stephen Chambers's German-built "Triskel"--see http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...indpost&p=26579 . It might be the best bet for you, if and when it becomes available... Hope that helps! Daniel Edited November 7, 2005 by Daniel Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I primarily want an anglo, because I like the sound of that more than other concertinas, and can be played in more keys.Yes the sound may be different, but the Anglo system is not able to play in more keys than others. 30-key Anglo, English, and McCann and Crane duet systems are all fully chromatic. In fact, while the 30-button anglo has a full chromatic scale through most of its range, it cannot quite play all chords. (It's actually missing only a few, and full chords aren't always necessary, but that's a topic that's been discussed elsewhere.) In fact, the anglo system (potentially including its derivatives such as the Chemnitzer) is the only one where arbitrary note combinations aren't possible, because it's the only one where individual notes might be available in only one bellows direction. Other duet systems (Jeffries, Hayden, Wheatstone "double", Jedcertina, and various custom layouts which crop up from time to time) and the Linton system (not actually a "duet") are all fully chromatic, except examples with reduced numbers of buttons (mainly miniatures). Only the early Wheatstone "duett" seems to have left the accidentals out of its basic design, and those now exist only as museum pieces. As for "the sound" being different, is that really the instrument, or is it the way it's played? Listening to Henrik Müller's playing (Henrik, could you give Henk more sound files for his links page?), how many of us would have judged it to be an English rather than an anglo, based solely on "the sound"? Duplicating William Kimber's arrangements on an English would be much more difficult, but one should be able to do it on a duet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 ...As for "the sound" being different, is that really the instrument, or is it the way it's played? Listening to Henrik Müller's playing (Henrik, could you give Henk more sound files for his links page?) ... After all this nice promotion, I'll see what I can do during the week - quality will be so-so, but that's better than nothing. It will be the 18-button, battered, low-life Stagi. /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 ... As for "the sound" being different, is that really the instrument, or is it the way it's played? Listening to Henrik Müller's playing (Henrik, could you give Henk more sound files for his links page?) ... After all this nice promotion, I'll see what I can do during the week - quality will be so-so, but that's better than nothing. It will be the 18-button, battered, low-life Stagi. /Henrik Jim, Thanks for your "links page promotion" Henrik, I'm looking forward to your contribution... so this "Frankenstein-tina" is still operational (poor thing!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 After all this nice promotion, I'll see what I can do during the week - quality will be so-so, but that's better than nothing. It will be the 18-button, battered, low-life Stagi. In your hands, it becomes high-life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 After all this nice promotion, I'll see what I can do during the week - quality will be so-so, but that's better than nothing. It will be the 18-button, battered, low-life Stagi. In your hands, it becomes high-life! Flatter me, and you'll get a long way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanne Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 Just let me know when you have the recordings up! I'm getting really curious about that instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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