Bellows

[Mayofiddler]

Hi,

 

Having a great time with the new Morse, I actually enjoy playing it more than my trusty old fiddle which amazes me. I was merrily tugging the bellows straight in and out when I noticed on one of the Youtube videos of the fleadh that a girl was playing by making the bellows "fan" outwards, rather than pulling them straight in and out. I then had a quick look around and found one of the tutorials mentioned in another thread here, and that also showed the bellows being fanned (kept tight on the side away from the player's body and spread open on the side towards the player). Can anyone tell me what the pros and cons are? I tried this fan technique and it feels more stable and also seems to give faster response when changing quickly from in to the out. More like operating against a hinge than hauling the bellows.

 

I put the question to my wife and she said that some time in the dim and distant past she was told not to use the fan technique because it wears the bellows unevenly. However I don't see the difference between wearing out one side of the bellows or both sides evenly, so that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Appreciate any comments on the "correct" technique (if there is one) and why it is correct.

 

Thanks folks.

[Mikefule]

I never understood the argument: don't use it in the way that suits you or you'll wear it out. By that argument, all paintings would be kept in darkened rooms.

 

I have read and found tutorial videos which recommend fanning. I have also been told by people whose opinions I respect that you should not fan.

 

The obvious conclusion is that it is a matter of personal preference.

 

If I find that playing my concertina with reasonable care is wearing it out, I will know I'm practising enough.

[Dana Johnson]

Hi,

 

Having a great time with the new Morse, I actually enjoy playing it more than my trusty old fiddle which amazes me. I was merrily tugging the bellows straight in and out when I noticed on one of the Youtube videos of the fleadh that a girl was playing by making the bellows "fan" outwards, rather than pulling them straight in and out. I then had a quick look around and found one of the tutorials mentioned in another thread here, and that also showed the bellows being fanned (kept tight on the side away from the player's body and spread open on the side towards the player). Can anyone tell me what the pros and cons are? I tried this fan technique and it feels more stable and also seems to give faster response when changing quickly from in to the out. More like operating against a hinge than hauling the bellows.

 

I put the question to my wife and she said that some time in the dim and distant past she was told not to use the fan technique because it wears the bellows unevenly. However I don't see the difference between wearing out one side of the bellows or both sides evenly, so that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Appreciate any comments on the "correct" technique (if there is one) and why it is correct.

 

Thanks folks.

Fanning by itself doesn't wear the bellows on the outside, though it does cause some parts to flex much more than others. If you rest the folds on your knee you get wear there, and one method of fanning does this. Eventually, fanning will create a bellows that has a preference for opening on the outside.

 

Fanning can help to control a floppy bellows and is easy to learn quick bellows changes on, but you sacrifice half the volume of your bellows. Not an issue if all you play are single notes and tunes that don't have a string of notes all in the same direction, but a real limitation on what you can do with the instrument. Fanning over the knee is better in this regard, but eventually damaging to the bellows.

 

Straight playing requires more practice to learn to control the tendency of the bellows to flop (old bellows or poorly made ones are more prone to this) and to learn quick crisp reversals on, but in the end works just as well as fanning without any limitations on bellows extension for full chords or long one way runs of notes. While most good players use a small portion of the bellows most of the time, they take advantage of the freedom of the extra bellows when it improves the music.

 

My own feelings are that if you only see yourself ever playing quick melodies with few and small chords, fanning is faster to learn and effective. If you are willing to put in a little extra time with straight playing, you will avoid added limitations on an instrument that already has enough limits. You can play great music either way. one just has more limitations. If you avoid over the knee fanning, I don't think the wear issue is big enough to worry about.

 

non-fanning,

Dana

[Frank Edgley]

You should do what is comfortable for you. Personally, I think that fanning would involvea twisting of the forearms, which seems unnatural to me. Anything which takes extra effort or thought detracts from the focus needed to play the music. I once attended a John Williams workshop. He did not advocate fanning, but cautioned against playing in such a position which would cause strain on the shoulders. Some people I have seen fanning do so by bending the bellows over the knee. This is something to be avoided unless you don't mind purchasing a new bellows at some time. If you have a well-made concertina, and play irish music, there should be little need to move the bellows much, as a well-made concert is very air efficient. Many of the very good players have very little bellows travel, keeping the bellows fairly closed. Of course, for every "rule" there are exceptions.

[Alan Day]

There has been an interesting discussion about this on Mudcat (Bellowsing) with some links to this method being demonstrated.

I asked all the questions that have been mention so far which were answered honestly.

Fanning would not be suitable for my style of playing the Anglo, but for smooth control on an English or Duet system it is certainly worth investigating.

I agree totally with Frank however that you should do what you feel comfortable with.

Al

[Mayofiddler]

Hmmm, very interesting. Thank you all very much. I love learning the arcane side of a new instrument, it's great to hear all the different views. If I hadn't read Dana's reply I would have gone the way of fanning the bellows with no further thought, but I'm not sure I want to lose any flexibility (no pun intended) by taking the quick route. On the other hand, I definitely feel more comfortable with fast bellows changes using the fan method. I might spend a few weeks trying that and see how I get on. If it throws up more problems than the straight bellows then I might change back. I feel I should try it just to learn something, even if it means a waste of a few weeks. That way I wouldn't be taking a particular route out of my own practical inexperience/ignorance. I don't think bellows wear as far as the knee is concerened is a problem, I was told at the start to keep the bellows away from my knees to avoid wear, so I made a point of doing that.

 

Many thanks to you all once again, back to having the bellows and some tunes beat me up now :-)

[Henrik Müller]

...

By that argument, all paintings would be kept in darkened rooms.

...

Hahaaaa - I like that one. I treasure it for future use

 

/Henrik

[yankeeclipper]

Maybe 'fanning' works best with strongly rhythmic tunes (i.e., Irish trad reel-to-reel) with an Anglo, but it only utilizes a fraction of the bellows capacity. I doubt 'fanning' would handle some of the extended runs in the diverse music I enjoy with my Wheatstone EC. Playing klezmer, classical, ragtime, etc., I'm often grateful for the full capacity and extension of the bellows. As for worries about bellows wear, hey, they can be replaced! Playing is what it's all about.

Edited February 28, 2009 by yankeeclipper

[david_boveri]

i agree that you should do whatever works for you, but i would suggest anyone to think about what their end goal is. do you want ease of use? or control over the instrument? what works best in the short term is not always what works best in the long term.

 

Hmmm, very interesting. Thank you all very much. I love learning the arcane side of a new instrument, it's great to hear all the different views. If I hadn't read Dana's reply I would have gone the way of fanning the bellows with no further thought, but I'm not sure I want to lose any flexibility (no pun intended) by taking the quick route. On the other hand, I definitely feel more comfortable with fast bellows changes using the fan method. I might spend a few weeks trying that and see how I get on. If it throws up more problems than the straight bellows then I might change back. I feel I should try it just to learn something, even if it means a waste of a few weeks. That way I wouldn't be taking a particular route out of my own practical inexperience/ignorance. I don't think bellows wear as far as the knee is concerened is a problem, I was told at the start to keep the bellows away from my knees to avoid wear, so I made a point of doing that.

 

Many thanks to you all once again, back to having the bellows and some tunes beat me up now :-)

 

it's going to take more than a couple weeks. it has taken me for years to get any semblance of good bellows control keeping the bellows straight. noel hill has the best bellows/reed control of anyone i have ever heard, and he definitely does not fan, and is very strict on maintaining straight bellows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ3Lt6CaG48

 

you lose a lot of control when you fan. your power should come from your shoulders, not your wrists, and you should be using the hand rest and the hand strap to put force into the concertina, not your fingers on buttons. a good way to feel how you should use your arms is to put your hands palms together. push as hard as you can against them. feel the muscles in your arms and shoulders. those are the muscles you use when you push. for the next one, either get someone to push your hands together or find a narrow space (hands work better). try to separate your hands when someone is pushing them together, and feel the muscles you use--these are the muscles you should use when you pull out.

 

if you use any muscles besides these, you will have very bad bellows control. that is an exercise i came up with several years ago, and it has made all the difference. you can also feel the pressure when holding your concertina and not pressing any buttons, but do not press hard or try to move air with no buttons down--it will damage the valves.

 

another exercise you can do is hold the concertina off your knee, press the air button, and try to pull the bellows all the way out and all the way in, using those muscles you found in the other exercise. try to keep the bellows stable (straight in, straight out), only using your palm or back of hand on the instrument. do not stabilize with the heel of your hand, or any fingers on button. you will feel the muscles in your lower arm which you will need to use to stabilize the instrument, while your upper arm is applying the force/energy to move in and out.

 

 

Maybe 'fanning' works best with strongly rhythmic tunes (i.e., Irish trad reel-to-reel) with an Anglo, but it only utilizes a fraction of the bellows capacity. I doubt 'fanning' would handle some of the extended runs in the diverse music I enjoy with my Wheatstone EC. Playing klezmer, classical, ragtime, etc., I'm often grateful for the full capacity and extension of the bellows. As for worries about bellows wear, hey, they can be replaced! Playing is what it's all about.

 

i dont think it works well rhythmically. you do not have much control over the instrument or the reeds, because you end up using weak muscles. with the muscles i described above, you have much more control, because they are stronger muscles. imagine a fiddle player using only his wrist to control the bow, vs. using his whole arm. the whole arm will give you more tone control, more dynamic control, and more subtlety. fanning is equivalent to playing the fiddle, only moving your wrist or elbow, and not using the entire arm and upper body to control the bow. the wrist and elbow are both important parts of using your bowing arm, but they are not the whole picture. likewise it is with the concertina.

Edited February 28, 2009 by david_boveri

[Greg Jowaisas]

Here are several you tube links that illustrate different ways of handling the bellows. Great players all!!

 

Awfully hard to pay attention to the bellows when Ms. Fox is playing but she is very effecient. A la woman's Irish style she uses her lap rather than the left thigh as a stationary platform and fans the bellows (more than i previously realized!) from bottom to top.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMzwjNbioTY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHw3P7kphSA...feature=related

 

Brian Peters plays standing up in a different style and with a different technique:

 

 

And one of Master Hill, which include his technique at 11 or 12 years old and 30 some odd years later.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llgUjNzsrG4...feature=related

 

Greg

[Mikefule]

From watching some players, I suspect that some of the fanning that goes on is a sort of physical expression of the musician's feeling about the music - a bit like the more flamboyant hand movements of a harmonica player trying to give the music that extra lift; or the "gurning" beloved of rock guitarists. It's partly done because it feels right, and partly done because it "looks the part". When asked, someone can always come up with a good reaosn to justify what they do, but those reasons are sometimes retrospective!

 

Is it better to play the violin in the crook of the arm or under the chin? Plenty of people will tell you one or the other. One is "strict good form" and one is more "expressive" (whatever those two terms mean in the minds of the people using them).

 

Or maybe I'm talking nonsense; it has been known to happen.

[david_boveri]

Here are several you tube links that illustrate different ways of handling the bellows. Great players all!!

 

Awfully hard to pay attention to the bellows when Ms. Fox is playing but she is very effecient. A la woman's Irish style she uses her lap rather than the left thigh as a stationary platform and fans the bellows (more than i previously realized!) from bottom to top.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMzwjNbioTY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHw3P7kphSA...feature=related

 

Brian Peters plays standing up in a different style and with a different technique:

 

 

And one of Master Hill, which include his technique at 11 or 12 years old and 30 some odd years later.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llgUjNzsrG4...feature=related

 

Greg

 

in regards to brian peter's technique, i talked to him about how he approaches the bellows*. he said he locks the bottom angle of the concertina in the crook of his palm. it is a very efficient technique, but my hands are too small to do this. however, when i play, i approximate the same muscle usage in the lower arm as locking in the corner would do. i also play with the concertina on my knee as if i was holding it in the air, so brian peter's bellows control is very influential on how i play. also, if you watch noel play, you can see he very often lifts up the bellows just a little bit. this is also why i play like i am holding it in the air. the way they stabilize the instrument is different--i use a combination of what each of them has taught me. the biggest reason that i play as if i am holding it in the air (even if i am not), is because this makes for what i have found to be a the best bellows control. this is because it adds pressure and firmness to the bellows. it is very difficult, of course to play standing up as well as brian peters does, but good tone control is difficult on any instrument.

 

 

*i was going to edit my post to say that brian peters and noel hill had really good bellows control, but since greg mentioned brian, i am just adding it here.

[david_boveri]

re: edel's bellows control. although she would appear to be fanning, i can see her lifting up her bellows on the right hand side. she is moving in and out, with the sides set at an outward-facing angle. if she didnt have her legs together, you might not call it fanning. notice as her bellows extend, they go to her right, and not downwards. i know a woman who plays the concertina who advocates fanning on the knee. when she extends, her bellows go downwards, wrapping around the knee, and this is not what is happening when edel is playing. edel is not fanning--it is an optical illusion. also, i would like to point out that some concertinas just seem to do better with tilted ends, rather than horizontal.

 

edel's playing is an example of efficiently using bellows and portraying a personal difference in the angle of the ends of her concertina, not of fanning.

Edited February 28, 2009 by david_boveri

[Jim Van Donsel]

I play a Morse Anglo as well (and love it) and I find that it's too small to do anything except straight in-and-out. For me this is a good thing - no need to work to try to keep the bellows from fanning.

[Alan Day]

You may be interested in the views expressed on the Utube Videos Concertina Bellows Management 1 & 2

Not sure how to do the link but it Google's OK.

Al

[Leonard]

You may be interested in the views expressed on the Utube Videos Concertina Bellows Management 1 & 2

Not sure how to do the link but it Google's OK.

Al

Concertina bellows management 1

Concertina bellows management 2

[Greg Jowaisas]

re: edel's bellows control. although she would appear to be fanning, i can see her lifting up her bellows on the right hand side. she is moving in and out, with the sides set at an outward-facing angle. if she didnt have her legs together, you might not call it fanning. notice as her bellows extend, they go to her right, and not downwards. i know a woman who plays the concertina who advocates fanning on the knee. when she extends, her bellows go downwards, wrapping around the knee, and this is not what is happening when edel is playing. edel is not fanning--it is an optical illusion. also, i would like to point out that some concertinas just seem to do better with tilted ends, rather than horizontal.

 

edel's playing is an example of efficiently using bellows and portraying a personal difference in the angle of the ends of her concertina, not of fanning.

 

Well, Dave, I will not waste valuable practice time arguing with you on what constitutes "fanning". (I still remeber our 20 minute walk and your monologue that could be summed up in one sentence: "I don't care what you learn, as long as you pay attention." See, I was paying attention!) But I will go straight to the source this summer and observe Edel's bellows work. No problem paying attention.

 

Greg

[Chris Ghent]

re: edel's bellows control. although she would appear to be fanning, i can see her lifting up her bellows on the right hand side. she is moving in and out, with the sides set at an outward-facing angle. if she didnt have her legs together, you might not call it fanning. notice as her bellows extend, they go to her right, and not downwards. i know a woman who plays the concertina who advocates fanning on the knee. when she extends, her bellows go downwards, wrapping around the knee, and this is not what is happening when edel is playing. edel is not fanning--it is an optical illusion. also, i would like to point out that some concertinas just seem to do better with tilted ends, rather than horizontal.

 

edel's playing is an example of efficiently using bellows and portraying a personal difference in the angle of the ends of her concertina, not of fanning.

 

I'm happy to disagree and state that in my opinion Edel is a fanner. She opens the bellows from the top, using the solidity gained from holding the bellows together at the bottom to create a stable platform for accurate fingerwork. What creates the uncertainty is what she does when she runs into the one disadvantage created by fanning, running out of air. At this point she lifts the bellows apart at the bottom, but still maintains the slight downwards pressure on the bellows that creates fanning. This starts the bellows into a mild S shape, and retains a stable end. For a more dramatic example of the use of an S bend to create stability for the free end of the concertina (in this case the left end) look at the Micheal O' Raghallaigh clip on Comhaltas, probably also on Youtube. I suspect Edel pushes down with the heel of her hand when the bellows are closed at the bottom and down with the index finger side of her hand when she has moved from the closed fanning position to the S bend position. If you look at the Noel Hill clips on Youtube the bellows are more extended but the free end is lower than the fixed end, creating the S bend.

 

The need to eliminate any rocking motion on bellows reversal is paramount as rocking leads to delay which leads to shortened notes and consequent poor rhythm. Any wish to keep the ends perfectly parallel while pushing straight in will founder on the off centre pushing points. The anglo hand rest is off centre and pushing only upon it and directly straight in will result initially in the side of the concertina further from you opening slightly before the whole end moves, with consequent time lost in rocking motion. Putting bracing fingers out to balance the off centre push will work perfectly but this is often not an option because they are busy. Pushing down, across the rocking movement, creates stability. The more solid the bellows the less downward pressure needed. I would love to hear a detailed description of any other methods. We don't see many concertina players here.

 

I find a lot of the worry about damaging bellows unnecessary. If I was to take the analogy of two people buying identical cars, one as the family car, the other with the intention of production racing. At the end of ten years one might still be in loved condition, few scratches on the paint and mechanically slightly worn but running well. The other might have seen plenty of action, be on its third engine and second diff. Both are valid expressions of the life of a car, their owners equally satisfied. Bellows are in the longer term just another consumable. Use it the way you want, if it breaks fix it... Maybe I have spent too much time keeping a British motorcycle on the road!

 

Chris

Edited March 1, 2009 by Chris Ghent