Concertina FAQ rewrite

[Chris Timson]

Hi all,

 

As the FAQ approaches its 14th birthday on February 11th I have embarked on a long overdue rewrite. Much has changed in the intervening years. For one thing the FAQ as it was then grew out of the concerns of the newgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox. Now I spend my time here (along, it seems, with a high percentage of the world's tina players) the FAQ should have more to say about the concerns of this forum.

 

I'm not doing the rewrite top-to-bottom but in order of most urgency. Thus I tackled the Makers and Repairers first, as that list was well out of date and not abreast of modern developments. The same consideration has influenced my choice of the next chunk I've updated, which is Buying Advice. I find that 14 years on not only have I more to say, but that I am, perhaps, slightly more opinionated about things than I was last century. Anyway, have a shufty here and tell me what you think.

 

As further sections are updated I will post links here. Thanks for your collective help, and thanks to everyone for making this such an excellent forum

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Hereward]

Hi all,

 

As the FAQ approaches its 14th birthday on February 11th I have embarked on a long overdue rewrite. Much has changed in the intervening years. For one thing the FAQ as it was then grew out of the concerns of the newgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox. Now I spend my time here (along, it seems, with a high percentage of the world's tina players) the FAQ should have more to say about the concerns of this forum.

 

I'm not doing the rewrite top-to-bottom but in order of most urgency. Thus I tackled the Makers and Repairers first, as that list was well out of date and not abreast of modern developments. The same consideration has influenced my choice of the next chunk I've updated, which is Buying Advice. I find that 14 years on not only have I more to say, but that I am, perhaps, slightly more opinionated about things than I was last century. Anyway, have a shufty here and tell me what you think.

 

As further sections are updated I will post links here. Thanks for your collective help, and thanks to everyone for making this such an excellent forum

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

I feel on more sure ground here because I used your earlier version of this page when I bought my concertina and did a lot of research towards that. Being someone quite new to concertinas I can judge how well this has addressed the questions people in my position have. The changes do reflect how I saw the situation when I did my research and seems just what is needed from my viewpoint.

 

Ian

[pete]

I feel on more sure ground here because I used your earlier version of this page when I bought my concertina and did a lot of research towards that. Being someone quite new to concertinas I can judge how well this has addressed the questions people in my position have. The changes do reflect how I saw the situation when I did my research and seems just what is needed from my viewpoint.

 

Ian

 

I also used the old page when learning about concertinas prior to buying and agree that the new page looks really useful. Just to say that the Rochelle/Jack/Jackie from the Music Room now cost £370 (why the sudden jump from last year - I can't think that it's all down to exchange rates?), so you might want to up the 'around £200' a bit.

 

Pete

[miikae]

Very well done Chris , your efforts are much appreciated now and always will be so , many thanks from me .

 

As Pete has mentioned the prices of the Rochelle/Jack/Jackie has certainly risen as i bought my Jack direct from CC in Holland a couple of years ago for £175

 

Mike

[CaryK]

Hi all,

 

As the FAQ approaches its 14th birthday on February 11th I have embarked on a long overdue rewrite. Much has changed in the intervening years. For one thing the FAQ as it was then grew out of the concerns of the newgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox. Now I spend my time here (along, it seems, with a high percentage of the world's tina players) the FAQ should have more to say about the concerns of this forum.

 

I'm not doing the rewrite top-to-bottom but in order of most urgency. Thus I tackled the Makers and Repairers first, as that list was well out of date and not abreast of modern developments. The same consideration has influenced my choice of the next chunk I've updated, which is Buying Advice. I find that 14 years on not only have I more to say, but that I am, perhaps, slightly more opinionated about things than I was last century. Anyway, have a shufty here and tell me what you think.

 

As further sections are updated I will post links here. Thanks for your collective help, and thanks to everyone for making this such an excellent forum

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Well written and very relevant, Chris. Thanks for taking this on. One detail I would quibble with though. You mentioned that Hohners were badge engineered Stagis. Stagis are still made in Italy, I believe. But entry level Hohner concertinas, like the ubiquitous D40, are made in China. I had rough experience with two of them. By comparison the Stagi I upgraded to was light years better. Of course my Edgley and Herrington are light years better than the Stagi. Just not sure that Brunner Musica, maker of Stagis has anything to do with Hohner.

Edited February 8, 2009 by CaryK

[Jim Van Donsel]

Much appreciated, Chris.

 

A couple minor comments:

 

1) It would be helpful to have a "last updated" date on each page.

 

2) There seems to be a mix of the terms "concertinas" and "concertina" for the plural.

 

(Hmm. I wonder if there is a collective noun for a large number of concertinas, as in "a murder of crows". I hereby propose "a bellow of concertinas".)

 

-jim

[david_boveri]

Much appreciated, Chris.

 

A couple minor comments:

 

1) It would be helpful to have a "last updated" date on each page.

 

2) There seems to be a mix of the terms "concertinas" and "concertina" for the plural.

 

(Hmm. I wonder if there is a collective noun for a large number of concertinas, as in "a murder of crows". I hereby propose "a bellow of concertinas".)

 

-jim

 

i thought you were going to say a murder of concertinas. my heart sank a little when you did not.

[Daniel Hersh]

I'm in the US so I don't fully understand the British/European market -- but you might be able to get a better price than the Music Room one from Harry Geuns in Belgium (http://www.bandoneon-maker.com/nieuwe_pagina_31.htm) or Len Killick in Germany (http://www.akkordeonservice.de/dweb/dp6_0.htm).

 

Very well done Chris , your efforts are much appreciated now and always will be so , many thanks from me .

 

As Pete has mentioned the prices of the Rochelle/Jack/Jackie has certainly risen as i bought my Jack direct from CC in Holland a couple of years ago for £175

 

Mike

[Chris Timson]

As Pete has mentioned the prices of the Rochelle/Jack/Jackie has certainly risen as i bought my Jack direct from CC in Holland a couple of years ago for £175

 

I'll check.

 

You mentioned that Hohners were badge engineered Stagis. Stagis are still made in Italy, I believe. But entry level Hohner concertinas, like the ubiquitous D40, are made in China. I had rough experience with two of them. By comparison the Stagi I upgraded to was light years better. Of course my Edgley and Herrington are light years better than the Stagi. Just not sure that Brunner Musica, maker of Stagis has anything to do with Hohner.

 

Somebody else had said this. Again, I'll check.

 

1) It would be helpful to have a "last updated" date on each page.

 

2) There seems to be a mix of the terms "concertinas" and "concertina" for the plural.

 

(Hmm. I wonder if there is a collective noun for a large number of concertinas, as in "a murder of crows". I hereby propose "a bellow of concertinas".)

 

1) If there is it's typos, I'll check.

 

2) When the update is complete I will update the version info on the first page.

 

(Hmm. Let's not go there ...)

 

Thanks all,

 

Chris

[Woody]

Hi Chris,

 

excellent job, but I'd query one part...

 

Note that (especially in the UK) you can rarely resell a mass-produced instrument once you have outgrown it.

This is not the case in these days of eBay - could I suggest the following modified wording?

 

Note that new mass-produced instruments experience significant depreciation. Once you have outgrown it, it is unlikely that you will be able to resell one for anything like the new price even if it's still in excellent condition.

[Chris Drinkwater]

2) There seems to be a mix of the terms "concertinas" and "concertina" for the plural.

 

(Hmm. I wonder if there is a collective noun for a large number of concertinas, as in "a murder of crows". I hereby propose "a bellow of concertinas".)

 

How about a squeeze of concertinas?

 

Chris

[Ptarmigan]

2) There seems to be a mix of the terms "concertinas" and "concertina" for the plural.

 

(Hmm. I wonder if there is a collective noun for a large number of concertinas, as in "a murder of crows". I hereby propose "a bellow of concertinas".)

 

How about a squeeze of concertinas?

 

Chris

I certainly hope you don't adopt the phrase ~ a synthesis of Concertinas!

 

{ i.e. see 'Brave New World' thread, next door! }

 

Cheers

Dick

[Dan Worrall]

Buying Advice. I find that 14 years on not only have I more to say, but that I am, perhaps, slightly more opinionated about things than I was last century. Anyway, have a shufty here and tell me what you think.

 

As further sections are updated I will post links here. Thanks for your collective help, and thanks to everyone for making this such an excellent forum

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

Glad you are doing the update! It has always been a great reference.

 

One thought on your comment "For English folk dance the push-pull pattern of the anglo scale gives a "lift" to the music", by which you recommend, more or less, the anglo for English folk dance.

 

That is undoubtedly true for morris dancing. Hands down.

 

But if you consider English Country Dancing as a 'folk' dance, and one is playing for dances, then I think that music might actually favor an English, or at least how ECD is done here favors it (perhaps not so much in your neck of the woods?). I play both anglo and English, and usually try to work in the Anglo once I know the tune. But with ECD, there are of course thousands of tunes our callers draw from (we play from the two volume Barnes collection, usually). Each dance gets its own tune, and they don't often repeat the dances from one dance evening to the other (the dancers get bored). Lots of the tunes are very flowing---strings of sixteenth notes followed by leaping note passages--strings of sixth jumps and the like) that favor the English. With all the tune choices, invariably they are choosing several tunes in a night that I might not know...some pretty obscure ones...so I'll need to sight read, and worse yet, they'll be in Bb, like as not. Pretty challenging on a C/G anglo, to tempo the first time through. I find myself using my English all the time, and saving the anglo for those non-'flowing' tunes in G D or A that recur often enough that I know the tune by ear.

 

Just a thought; keep up the good work!

Dan

Edited February 9, 2009 by Dan Worrall

[Chris Timson]

One thought on your comment "For English folk dance the push-pull pattern of the anglo scale gives a "lift" to the music", by which you recommend, more or less, the anglo for English folk dance.

 

That is undoubtedly true for morris dancing. Hands down.

 

But if you consider English Country Dancing as a 'folk' dance, and one is playing for dances, then I think that music might actually favor an English, or at least how ECD is done here favors it (perhaps not so much in your neck of the woods?).

Hi Dan,

 

Well first you'll note I preface those "guidelines" with the statement "(as you will see, I take this with a pinch of salt myself)" so I'm setting up a straw man, only to knock it own in the next paragraph. My point being that you can't really truly lay down guidelines for what type of concertina you should use for what type of music. I can see no reason, or instance, why someone shouldn't use an English for the morris - I know a couple of musicians who do quite successfully.

 

Having said that, my own personal to-be-denied-in-public opinion is that the G/D anglo is a superb instrument for English folk dance. The feel of the instrument when played in the "English" style (melody RH, chords LH) fits the music like a glove. Selah.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Dan Worrall]

One thought on your comment "For English folk dance the push-pull pattern of the anglo scale gives a "lift" to the music", by which you recommend, more or less, the anglo for English folk dance.

 

That is undoubtedly true for morris dancing. Hands down.

 

But if you consider English Country Dancing as a 'folk' dance, and one is playing for dances, then I think that music might actually favor an English, or at least how ECD is done here favors it (perhaps not so much in your neck of the woods?).

Hi Dan,

 

Well first you'll note I preface those "guidelines" with the statement "(as you will see, I take this with a pinch of salt myself)" so I'm setting up a straw man, only to knock it own in the next paragraph. My point being that you can't really truly lay down guidelines for what type of concertina you should use for what type of music. I can see no reason, or instance, why someone shouldn't use an English for the morris - I know a couple of musicians who do quite successfully.

 

Having said that, my own personal to-be-denied-in-public opinion is that the G/D anglo is a superb instrument for English folk dance. The feel of the instrument when played in the "English" style (melody RH, chords LH) fits the music like a glove. Selah.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

All very well thought out and wise, Chris!

 

I'm with you all the way, loving my CG for dance music (and sometimes GD), until my friends here start playing quantities of Bb dance tunes...yikes!! The piano player, hearing a suppressed groan from my direction, would give me one of those withering 'So ya can't keep up?' smirks. Not for me. Before that happens, the treasured anglo goes into the box, and out pops Charlie Wheatstone's 56. Like magic, like Popeye on spinach, I can keep up in Bb. Well....I admit to a couple of bum notes the first time through...but after the 533rd time through (there are tunes where I'd kill for a medley...), I've pretty much got it, and life is good!

 

Dan

[Chris Timson]

Thanks for the posts, messages and emails with advice and suggestions. I've attended to most of them and the updated Buyers Guide and Makers & Repairers sections are now online. The next section for update will be along in a week or so.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[hjcjones]

But if you consider English Country Dancing as a 'folk' dance, and one is playing for dances, then I think that music might actually favor an English, or at least how ECD is done here favors it (perhaps not so much in your neck of the woods?).

 

I think it partly depends on what you mean by "English Country Dancing", which is a slippery term which can mean just what you want it to mean. If you mean Playford and the like, then you may have a point. I think Chris was talking about the sort of English dance music played here in sessions and for ceilidhs.

 

The sort of music which is played over here in "English Country Music" sessions or for "English Ceilidh" tends to be mostly from the southern and East Anglian traditions, very rhythmic and played slightly off the beat (although up north where I live the more flowing northern style is more widespread). Much of this music came from melodeon players, and sessions tend to be melodeon-heavy, so G and D are the main keys - anyone striking up in Bb would get pretty short shrift. Even playing in C produces grumbles from the melodeonists.

 

For this style of music, an anglo (especially a G/D) played in full-blooded chordal style is ideal.

[Kautilya]

Concertinahowdoi1100209

Hi all,

 

As the FAQ approaches its 14th birthday on February 11th I have embarked on a long overdue rewrite. Much has changed in the intervening years. For one thing the FAQ as it was then grew out of the concerns of the newgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox. Now I spend my time here (along, it seems, with a high percentage of the world's tina players) the FAQ should have more to say about the concerns of this forum.

.....

 

HOW DO I..................

 

This is such a rich and diverse site that newbies such as myself could benefit during the FAQ upgrade from a series of simple lines such as HOW DO I..

 

Fresh eyes are perhaps the ones to ask to come up with those questions and appropriate answers can be attached. I have to say after a little time I am already becoming blind to the obvious questions myself.

 

It is difficult to think like old hands when you are new and only have the search engine. You have to know the answer in order to know where to look. “Why did the concertina cross the road?” Now it is obvious but wasn’t before. “Because it saw a very tasty Crabb between two silver dishes with a slice of Ray Mears Wheatstone-ground bread made in a reed pan it thought ‘I must have some of that!”

 

For example - try to find out HOW DO I REMOVE a reed pan.

 

I spent more than half a day going through the various threads while I stared at the reed pan which clearly had some hidden screws in place, probably under that stuff ( yes, I know now it was chamois) around the lip. I had pretty well decided I would have to cut through the stuff (chamois) to find the retaining screw whatever it was underneath. Then I spotted someone reporting a near heart attack when a certain Mr Crabb grabbed hold of the hole in the middle (but which hole as I was still looking at levers) and just whipped it out and then started twanging away at a reed.....

 

I then stuck my finger through the hole, jiggled very carefully and wow! it began to move. By this time I had forgotten a note somewhere else saying put a pencil mark so that you remember which way in and out.......

 

Please remember newcomers such as myself will be embarrassed to ask simple questions not just because someone will say 'search' the site, but also because one does not want to presume on the kindness of people one does not know, if one understands what one means!

 

So - this could be a chance to have such a simple search. FAQs would come up in the general run of things after you put in HOW Do I, (you could of course put all the How dos ALSO into a Newbie section too - for looking at -- without being “interactive” questions and answers and no “commenting on function”.

 

It would help even more to have a photo and even better a youtube - I know this takes time but maybe the newbies could help? Indeed I have been taking the odd photo for just such a purpose.

 

For example while I was transfixed by the reedpan I actually thought I would have to cut open the leather (well, rexine in my case) to get at the wood underneath where the bellows was attached to the hexagonal wood “thingy” in order to get the pan out. I searched youtube and stumbled upon this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIpE38VoY08 which did not help at that precise moment but it taught me something about bellows management!

 

If there is an answer somewhere already then a phrase or word which will take you straight to that this could be added in the response to the FAQ. That would perhaps reduce the amount of new entries. But you need to know the site v well to add those words – just adding ‘bolt, or stuck bolt’ may not work == so those references need to be done by the experts(of whom there are many and helpful ones too!).

 

If I type in “stuck bolt” I get three pages (I don’t know how many entries and most look as though they are not connected to my problem.

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...e=%2Bstuck+bolt

 

 

If I do jammed bolt then I get Lark Rise to Candleford plus ….

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...=%2Bjammed+bolt

 

The search box on the home page does not seem to offer an advanced search function. The one after fora opens up does but it is buried a little out of sight (just call it advanced search not further search options) for newbies whereas they may be used to seeing it well up front under Google advanced search (or yahoo or whatever).

 

Anyway if I put in stuck+bolt it don’t seem to deliver:

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...te=stuck%2Bbolt

 

 

 

Further (I did buy the repair book which is great but alas it does not have a really detailed index at the back) so I searched cnet and then went through the book another half a dozen times to find the trick with the Sellotape…. (Durex would be the equivalent brand name known to our Australian brethren)Do you know what I am talking about? Sealing cracks ….)

 

So,

Maybe after one has taken Tim’s advice (under How do I choose/buy a ... (and bought a Chinese Jeffleys silver ended, gold button with thumb and wrist straps, plus gold reeds, gold plated springs and levers inside) the repair and construction FAQs could start when a) you drag the tina out of the box and rip the bellows... then b)preparing a cardboard box to sit the tina in, c) then screwdrivers with plastic tube over the ends, then jammed bolts (newbies don’t know they are bolts with receiving nuts under the chamois, coz they look like screws), and then a drilled out pencil holder with holes to take the screws/bolts in the right order, then soldering iron to heat jammed bolts, then thumbstrap screws to get at the inside when all the bolts are out but still the English wood end won’t come off then do the pinkie screw holders have to come out too.. all basic questions which newbies may not find so easily but who will be eternally grateful for a direct hit on a simple answer.

 

There could even be some lateral thinking:

 

How do I find leather strips to replace those missing (in tinaspeak “curling valves can be DLeesed but “Theo”logy’s 11th commandment is Thou shalt not put valves on high (little) reeds (metal strips) as the Lord did not put them there in the first place!

 

For the newer newbies that is a reference to discussion all over the place about missing valves for the higher notes (made by the shorted metal reeds) and Theo Gibb of The Box Place. And, although it may be because I am suffering from incipient cataracts, it takes a really long time to understand what people are talking about when they discuss the reeds seating nicely – they have two big screws on them surely – they are tight so they must be ok – it is only when much later you realise that those little metal things are shoved into a tight fitting slot horizontally and the slot is specially shaped so they do not pop up – but could slide out……… dim, in’t I!

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

ps Being a little forgetful in the short-memory stakes I often forget to logout. So I find I am still logged in a few days later. I am a bit paranoid about worms and spybots getting into sites loooking for names and contact details for home burglary (not just pseudonyms) and etc. so I wonder whether it might be safer if the site tripped a logout automatically when dumbos like me close the URL or switch off?) I probably forget because that is usually what happens on other sites we use when we turn off the comms to the Web.