Anglo F#

[Larryo]

In trying to learn the anglo, like a lot of people I struggle with the F# and it's interaction with the notes of D and E . My small finger is certainly strong enough to push the button regardless of in or out bellows, but I can't seem to develop the consistent accuracy of landing on the button in a way that my finger doesn't slip off it. I do plenty of scales and I am sure in time these will help but I wonder has any one discovered any aids to stopping this "slippage".Is it practical I wonder to have a larger top on that particular button or to take the dome off it ?I know that a particular base button on the piano accordian has a cross cut into it to help recognise it and use it as a guide, would something along those lines work as an anti slip device? I would very much appreciate the views of people who have learnt how to overcome this particular bug bear. As I say it is not a strength issue but more a way to prevent the finger slipping off the button. Thank you.ps I play a Suttner so instrument can't be blamed!

Edited September 11, 2008 by Larryo

[Bill N]

In trying to learn the anglo, like a lot of people I struggle with the F# and it's interaction with the notes of D and E . My small finger is certainly strong enough to push the button regardless of in or out bellows, but I can't seem to develop the consistent accuracy of landing on the button in a way that my finger doesn't slip off it. I do plenty of scales and I am sure in time these will help but I wonder has any one discovered any aids to stopping this "slippage".Is it practical I wonder to have a larger top on that particular button or to take the dome off it ?I know that a particular base button on the piano accordian has a cross cut into it to help recognise it and use it as a guide, would something along those lines work as an anti slip device? I would very much appreciate the views of people who have learnt how to overcome this particular bug bear. As I say it is not a strength issue but more a way to prevent the finger slipping off the button. Thank you.ps I play a Suttner so instrument can't be blamed!

 

I've been at this about 4 months now, and feel your pain! I have no magic bullet, but can at least offer some hope. I too was plagued by the unreliable pinkie. Sometimes it co-operated, but mostly not (especially when someone was listening). I have been practicing about an hour a day since early May, with a couple of vacation weeks with a more intense schedule. Gradually I have become more focused on the tunes, and less on the mechanics. As I became less conscious of what my hands were doing, I become more relaxed, and developed a lighter touch on the keys. And just the other day I realized that my left pinkie is now doing my bidding about 90% of the time. It just kind of happened gradually as a result of practice, repetition and excercise. (Kind of like when I realized one day that I was typing reasonably quickly without looking at the keyboard, after starting as a hunt-and-pecker.) Now I hope the same thing will happen with my right pinkie up there in squeaky land .

 

Edited to add that generally the 10% of the time that my pinkie doesn't co-operate corresponds to the 10% of the time when I'm actively thinking/worrying about where my fingers should go next, rather than just letting my digits "trust the force".

Edited September 11, 2008 by Bill N

[Lawrence Reeves]

In order to overcome a weakness I have found you have to just keep at it, over and over. One suggestion that may help is to approach the problem note from every other button near it. On the C row, push low G, or pull low B, to the F#. Also by trying to play an on the button off the button staccato, then back. A pattern using the pinky to give it muscle memory such as on the G row,push low D, then pull F# making sure t is staccato, then Low A, and low B, again on the G row, last key making sure there is space. I have done similar exercises when working on fiddle / mandolin pinky precision.

[Azalin]

Last night I was practicing Wynnes #1 and could not do anything with my pinky, it's stopped working! Some days I sit down and it's all going smoothly, some other days it doesnt want to listen to me. I will use the beginning of that tune for pinky strenghtening and practice. So I agree with you, it's not easy :-)

Edited September 11, 2008 by Azalin

[Robin Harrison]

................this from another topic ( may even have been on M.net....can't remember). I now carry a clothes peg around with me and exercise both little fingers when nothing much is happening.

I always do it when I see people jogging...................reminds that I may look relaxed but I am working out !

Robin

[david_boveri]

i dont think it is a problem. you will get used to it. it is only a matter of practice. at first, it seems awkward, but it wont always be that way. i can do cuts and taps and cranns on F# as if it were any other note.

[tombilly]

Yep, find myself missing this note on occasions but I think it's good to just hear that you missed it and keep the tune going without breaking the rhythm - like dropping a note on whistle or flute. Next time you come around, you make a more conscious effort to hit it cleanly. Of course, if the F# is the beat note, then skipping it is not so good.

[Rod]

i dont think it is a problem. you will get used to it. it is only a matter of practice. at first, it seems awkward, but it wont always be that way. i can do cuts and taps and cranns on F# as if it were any other note.

 

A suggestion for overcoming inherent muscular weakness and control of the 4th (little) fingers. Lock the finger and twist the wrist very slightly in the direction of that finger, thereby transmitting the strength required directly from the wrist to the finger. Don't expect the little finger, if used as a totally independent digit from the knuckle, to fully match the strength and control of the other three fingers. It will be grateful for assistance from the wrist. Like all such things it will soon become second nature.

[Spectacled Warbler]

.............this from another topic ( may even have been on M.net....can't remember). I now carry a clothes peg around with me and exercise both little fingers when nothing much is happening.

I always do it when I see people jogging...................reminds that I may look relaxed but I am working out !

Robin

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Working on the assumption that 50% of playing concerns pushing buttons down, the other 50% is accurately lifting fingers off again, hope that you're exercising the muscles that lift your fingers off the buttons also, and regularly stretching your fingers backwards away from your palm so that the muscles squeezing the clothes peg don't get shortened to compromise your finger lifting.

 

My pipe playing friend strengthened his fingers using one of those foam padded versions of a clothes peg that are available in keep fit shops, many times a day for a few months, ended up he couldn't lift his fingers off the chanter quickly enough to play tunes - has taken weeks of stretching and lifting exercises to return to his previous abilities.

 

If I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs, sorry, I just don't want other people who are obviously trying to improve their playing to find that they've actually created problems for themselves.

 

Regards,

 

Joy

[asdormire]

You know, I don't know if this will work, but maybe doing some of those old touch typing exercises, especially if you can find one of the old manuel typewriters and put the setting for the keys on hard.

 

Alan

[david_boveri]

i dont think it is a problem. you will get used to it. it is only a matter of practice. at first, it seems awkward, but it wont always be that way. i can do cuts and taps and cranns on F# as if it were any other note.

 

A suggestion for overcoming inherent muscular weakness and control of the 4th (little) fingers. Lock the finger and twist the wrist very slightly in the direction of that finger, thereby transmitting the strength required directly from the wrist to the finger. Don't expect the little finger, if used as a totally independent digit from the knuckle, to fully match the strength and control of the other three fingers. It will be grateful for assistance from the wrist. Like all such things it will soon become second nature.

 

just by fingering in the air, it seems that is how i get my pinky strength. bravo for your attentiveness! i dont think i ever would have noticed that.

[David Levine]

Hey folks, statements like these are misleading: My pipe playing friend strengthened his fingers ...

A suggestion for overcoming inherent muscular weakness ... my pinky strength

 

There are no muscles in the fingers. Fingers are controlled by tendons in he fingers, which are

connected to muscles in the forearm and the palm. I doubt that the problem of an inaccurate little

finger is caused by weak muscles. I think the errant pinkie is just a question of what we call

"muscle memory," inhibited perhaps by tension and self-consciousness.

 

Years ago when I played the fiddle I asked a local fiddler, James Davitt, how I could get my little

finger loose, like his, so I could do rolls on a high A. "Take a drop of whiskey now and then," he said.

I did and it might have helped a bit with the finger, but not with the rest of me.

 

Some time after that I was playing with him. He was a notorious drinker but at that time he wasn't drinking.

I asked him why he told me to take some whiskey when I played, but he wasn't drinking at all. "That's the thing,"

he said. "My little finger was too loose altogether."

[tombilly]

Ha! that's a good one Cocus.

But in relation to the thread as a whole, is it not more a question of finger accuracy that Larryo raises as opposed to strength. It's the wee finger hitting the button but not hitting it cleanly and skipping off it. Bit like flute playing, partic on a larger holed flute where the fingering has to be clean and accurate otherwise one doesn't seal the holes. Seems to me its more to do with getting the finger(s) to move accurately and consistently.

 

I have a suspicion that this maybe one of those little age related things where kids maybe do have a real advantage learning an instrument. I suspect that age tends to lessen your fingers flexibility and you tend not to be as accurate. So perhaps it's just a question of retraining and trying to work it back again.

[Bruce McCaskey]

Not to take away from any of the comments of the others, I think it's appropriate to mention two other possibilities besides the need to practice and the time needed for the finger positioning to become automatic.

 

First - hand sizes and finger lengths vary, and the height of one's hands over the buttons can affect the ease with which one can control their finger positioning, especially on the inner row. I have found that a standard height palm bar (the wooden bar on the ends) is a little too low for me. With a standard height bar it is more of a challenge to curl my fingers in to play the closest (G row) buttons and of course the F# seems to be the most difficult button on G row, or at least it did in my early days. For those that need it, a higher palm position means less finger curl is necessary for the inner row and the fingers are easier to control and position when they're in a more "mid-range" position. I find I like a height of about one inch.

 

Another thing to consider is your finger positioning with respect to the up-and-down alignment of the button rows. People sometimes hold their concertina rolled with the buttons at a slight angle to their natural finger alignment which can make playing more difficult, or perhaps, more challenging. Rolling the top of the concertina closer or further away from you changes the angle of the buttons to your fingers. If you don't have good alignment, or don't use the same alignment (same angle/position) each time you play, you'll impact your ability to reliably strike that F#. And if you find you're having more problems than usual finding the F#, stop and try rolling the instrument slightly to adjust the angle, it may help tremendously.

 

Closing, I'm not saying that it isn't likely that you just need more time playing to get your fingers trained, but also consider the other two points to see if either might be a factor for you.

[David Levine]

One of the reasons I stopped playing the fiddle (I do pick it up now and again) was because

of the problem I had rolling an A on the E string. I couldn't get my little finger to move fast

enough. After rededicating myself to the Anglo I find that my finger flexibility has improved

enormously. I doubt strength has much to do with it, as tombilly pointed out. Rather it has been

the playing of the Anglo that's loosened it up. I concentrate on using the (middle) D pull on the

C row -- and avoiding the D press on the G row -- just as Noel Hill suggests.

 

Harvest Home is a perfect example of what Noel is talking about, for many technical reasons.

After playing "DAFA DAFA" in the first bar seven thousand times you'll be amazed at how accurate

your little finger has become.

 

But I still don't sound like he does ...

[Larryo]

Thanks everyone for your help. A lot to think about it