Wikipedia Edit War

[Daniel Hersh]

Thanks, Rich. I've corrected my original post.

 

Daniel

 

The proportions of an "accordion reed" are quite different from those of a "concertina reed", and there are resulting differences in the way the reed produces sound. One result of this is that a concertina reed requires a chamber to work properly, while an accordion reed does not.

Actually... accordion reeds do require chambers to work properly as well.

 

-- Rich --

[wntrmute]

Well, the matter seems to have been settled, and the whole issue has been dodged in a new revision of the article in a non-biased way.

 

Also, I've got the message and I'll avoid cluttering the forums with wikipedia conflict posts -- however, I'll still whine, beg, plead, and otherwise fuss about getting more information for it on occassion. There is a lot of very good knowledge on these boards, and I can't ignore that.

[Dirge]

I voted that I didn't care which wording but it wasn't a vote against your raising it; you didn't ask that. I was entertained by the whole business; don't feel you shouldn't have aired it; some of the folk who posted were interested enough to comment and we all have the option not to read a thread that fails to entertain.

 

Just watch me glaze over next time the Anglo boys go off on prices again.....

[ceemonster]

[i tend to agree that there is a somewhat Pythonesque element to this. But why can't that be part of the appeal? Any minute now I'll start singing about my life-long desire to have been a lumberjack (with, of course, a concertina accompaniament). Oh!, the mighty larch!]

 

ha! you are so right! it's gloriously demented and perfect for holiday revelry! i actually had been thinking of the python about those philosophy professors getting smashed and singing a drinking ditty, "There's nothing nietsche couldn't teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.....socrates himself was permanently pissed!!!"

[Dave Prebble]

..... I actually had been thinking of the python about those philosophy professors getting smashed and singing a drinking ditty, "There's nothing nietsche couldn't teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.....socrates himself was permanently pissed!!!"

 

 

I was thinking of the 'Is this the right room for an argument'' sketch

 

Dave

[Woody]

..... I actually had been thinking of the python about those philosophy professors getting smashed and singing a drinking ditty, "There's nothing nietsche couldn't teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.....socrates himself was permanently pissed!!!"

 

 

I was thinking of the 'Is this the right room for an argument'' sketch

 

Dave

I believe this is definitely the right room

[meltzer]

No it isn't.

[Dirge]

You haven't looked at that Irish sessions thread, have you?

[Stephen Chambers]

You haven't looked at that Irish sessions thread, have you?

That's another , I'm staying out of that one...

[JimLucas]

You haven't looked at that Irish sessions thread, have you?

That's another , I'm staying out of that one...

Stephen, isn't that the same can of worms you posted before? ... Isn't it getting stale?

Oh, right. I see your point.

[Daniel Hersh]

..... I actually had been thinking of the python about those philosophy professors getting smashed and singing a drinking ditty, "There's nothing nietsche couldn't teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.....socrates himself was permanently pissed!!!"

 

I was thinking of the 'Is this the right room for an argument'' sketch

 

Dave

 

That's what I was thinking too, but then I saw the coconuts and swallows sketch in Holy Grail last night ("Are you saying that coconuts migrate?") and recognized some of my earlier posts in this thread...

[Woody]

No it isn't.

Oh yes it is!

 

(Well it is Panto season after all! )

[d.elliott]

FRANK: This statement that no great players have recorded on a "hybrid" (I dislike that term) is more complicated than it may seem.

 

 

Hi Frank,

 

what term would you use? I don't like 'hybrid' either anymore than 'vintage'

 

I tend to think in terms or traditional reeds (irrespective of age) and acordion reeded instruments, equally modern reproductions as opposed to original instruments. We all know that reproduction furniture , for instance, is not original and is often as good or better; subject to the grade of the item in question.

 

What term would you prefer, after all you have developed you range of instruments. Rich & Ted please comment too if you wish. I do suspect that the value of the lower to medium grade old instruments of tradition construction has been considerably affected by the rise of the equivalent grade of reproduction instruments irrespective of reed form.

 

Dave

[Woody]

FRANK: This statement that no great players have recorded on a "hybrid" (I dislike that term) is more complicated than it may seem.

 

 

Hi Frank,

 

what term would you use? I don't like 'hybrid' either anymore than 'vintage'

 

I tend to think in terms or traditional reeds (irrespective of age) and acordion reeded instruments, equally modern reproductions as opposed to original instruments. We all know that reproduction furniture , for instance, is not original and is often as good or better; subject to the grade of the item in question.

 

What term would you prefer, after all you have developed you range of instruments. Rich & Ted please comment too if you wish. I do suspect that the value of the lower to medium grade old instruments of tradition construction has been considerably affected by the rise of the equivalent grade of reproduction instruments irrespective of reed form.

 

Dave

I'd go for "Hybrid" & "Traditional" Concertinas. Neither word is perfect, but since you're trying to sum up a lot in one word so its unlikely that any existing word would completely hit the spot. I'd think that the more significant distinction should be between Concertinas produced in small batches by craftsmen, and those that are factory mass-produced.

 

So you could have a Stagi Factory Hybrid, a Norman Craftsman Hybrid, a Jeffries Craftsman Traditional and a Dipper Craftsman Traditional Concertina. Presumably the cheap end of the Lachenals would be Lachenal Factory Traditional Concertinas?

[Dieppe]

My opinion is the "concertina sounds like an accordion" sound because of the reeds is just a little bogus. ("Dudes looks like a Lady?")

 

I play both, and some people have commented on the "fuller" sound from the accordion. Well, in the treble I typically have 2 sets of reeds for each not, and in the bass---well---chords. But also there's a deeper sound box inside with more "reverb" or something. My (tenor) Stagi, even with steel reeds, just has a single reed per note and a lot less of it to sound. They just don't sound the same to me. Now.. similar? Well, in the sense that one doesn't sound like a guitar, and the other like an organ.

 

Just my 2 cents and I see that others have said things.. so... I'd just say that some clarification on that point should be made, and probably is by now.

 

Some concertinas DO have a larger interior sound box and some do have double or even triple reeds... but not all of them. And not usually, right?

[m3838]

So you could have a Stagi Factory Hybrid, a Norman Craftsman Hybrid, a Jeffries Craftsman Traditional and a Dipper Craftsman Traditional Concertina. Presumably the cheap end of the Lachenals would be Lachenal Factory Traditional

 

Yahh! This word, Hybrid, is just so unghodly! It sticks to my tongue like a wash rag. A Hyvrid is the result of cross pollination in animal breeding, not a good news for those bred, mostly. Why not coin some other word, or just dorp it alltogether.

Frankly, owners of Ceili and Albions, Edgleys, Normans and Tedrows - who of you, when asked "what is this cute little accordion you are playing?", answers: - "Oh, it's a Hybrid".

I just can't help it but hear a tiny reedy voice from some 6-sided box, saying: "Hybrid yourself!".

[Woody]

So you could have a Stagi Factory Hybrid, a Norman Craftsman Hybrid, a Jeffries Craftsman Traditional and a Dipper Craftsman Traditional Concertina. Presumably the cheap end of the Lachenals would be Lachenal Factory Traditional

 

Yahh! This word, Hybrid, is just so unghodly! It sticks to my tongue like a wash rag. A Hyvrid is the result of cross pollination in animal breeding, not a good news for those bred, mostly.

Well firstly I'll think you'll find that animals don't produce Pollen, so that's a bit wide of the mark. Secondly, it seems many view this word with a negative connotation but, as with a lot of the English language, the word has many subtly differing meanings. When I think of the word "Hybrid" with respect to Concertinas I view the word in the context... "In plant and animal breeding, hybrids are commonly produced and selected because they have desirable characteristics not found or inconsistently present in the parent individuals or populations." (from wiki entry) Specifically with respect to vegetables, hybrids are bred to make something stronger & better than the parent - so in my dictionary it's a very positive word.

 

 

Why not coin some other word, or just dorp it alltogether.

We use it as a shorthand to describe this group of Concertinas in how they differ from traditionally reeded Concertinas.

 

 

Frankly, owners of Ceili and Albions, Edgleys, Normans and Tedrows - who of you, when asked "what is this cute little accordion you are playing?", answers: - "Oh, it's a Hybrid"

Well it depends who's asking. If somebody says "what is this cute little accordion you are playing?" I'll probably answer "Concertina". If somebody asks more details I'm sure the word Hybrid could come up - it depends if the conversation has got to the details of type of reeds used.

 

 

At the end of the day if somebody wants to be some kind of a snob or purist about this, they're not worth my time. If they pick up and play a Morse or a Norman and think it's a second-rate instrument then IMHO they don't know what they're talking about.

 

 

I just can't help it but hear a tiny reedy voice from some 6-sided box, saying: "Hybrid yourself!".

If you're starting to hear them talk to you I think you may need to seek medical help.

[Boney]

My opinion is the "concertina sounds like an accordion" sound because of the reeds is just a little bogus.

I think some people may be taking this a bit too literally. I don't think it's meant to mean an accordion-reeded concertina is indistinguishable from an accordion. It's just a description, like saying a certain concertina sounds like a clarinet, or an oboe, or a bird -- an idea of the "flavor" of the tone. Of course accordion-reeded concertinas don't have multiple reeds per note, wet-tuned. We know that, it doesn't have to be repeated every time. It's just that the essence of what is different in the sound is quite accurately described as a sound that's closer to an accordion than a concertina-reeded instrument is. Of course there are other variables, but some of the objections seem strange to me, is there anything controversial about the fact that using accordion reeds gives a more accordion-like sound? Using harmonium reeds would give a more harmonium-like sound too.

 

And personally, I never use the word "hybrid." If the type of reeds comes up, I'd just say whether it has accordion or concertina reeds.