Country Music Concertina

[asdormire]

I wouldn't dissagree with most of your statement in the least. I can point to one other accordion in a bluegrass band: mid-fifties, Bill Monore and his Bluegrass Boys. There was this lady (wasn't there always with Bill) who played PC. She was in the band for at least a tour... .

 

 

the Big Mon

 

Ok, Lets try this again.

 

The Big Mon equals Bill Monroe.

 

As for the Dobro, I think you are forgetting the influence of Josh Graves and his work, not to mention the influences of Jimmie Rodgers, who regularly recorded with a dobro, on the bluegrass form.

 

I understand your points, though, but as you are from New England, and have probably never seen a firearm, and these hill folks aren't afraid to use one , I guess that when I attend a bluegrass jam, I'll bring my dobros, banjoes and bass. Western, oldtimey or folk, I'll bring those, and my concertinas.

 

All's cool,

 

Alan

[stevejay]

Only in my living room when I played a concertina break on "Eight more miles to Louisville". If now you consider bluegrass a part of the country family (not everybody does).

 

Bluegrass is mostly defined by the banjo. If the banjo player picks, then it's bluegrass. Bluegrass is certainly a branch of Country, and so is Rockabilly, just less mainstream.

[JimLucas]

Bluegrass is mostly defined by the banjo....

Nope.

 

Bluegrass is mostly defined by folks who feel a need to "define" things, people who are more concerned with putting things in pigeonholes than in making music.

 

I prefer to leave pigeonholes to the pigeons, and play music with those who don't care what you call it.

[Alan Day]

Now I happen to have heard a certain Mr Mark Evans and Obi's Boys play and they are well worth visiting if they are near you.

Al

[Mark Evans]

Ok, Lets try this again.

 

The Big Mon equals Bill Monroe.

 

As for the Dobro, I think you are forgetting the influence of Josh Graves and his work, not to mention the influences of Jimmie Rodgers, who regularly recorded with a dobro, on the bluegrass form.

 

I understand your points, though, but as you are from New England, and have probably never seen a firearm, and these hill folks aren't afraid to use one , I guess that when I attend a bluegrass jam, I'll bring my dobros, banjoes and bass. Western, oldtimey or folk, I'll bring those, and my concertinas.

 

All's cool,

 

Alan

 

Big Mon....I had no idea! Jeez, sorry. I thought you might be refering to a Cajun performer er 'sumpin'.

Josh Graves, lord yes...but it still cuts no cheese with the crusty-rustys I refer to as Grassholes. They'd a' walked out on him as well (God rest his soul).

 

Jimmie amongst the same group would be respected, worshiped even but rejected out of had as " not bluegrass." Jimmie influenced plenty but the bluegrass form was yet unformed in his lifetime. You've used Dobro in reference to a resophonic guitar (common usage today). Dobro is a brand name...be like callin' all concertinas Wheatstones (as small point, but my associate Reso-Richie has corrected me so many times I just want to past on the joy ).

 

I am not from New England. My bluegrass teeth were cut in the Blue Ridge Mountains around Chasheirs, N.C. Guns...As a Southerner, I grew up with them and was given my first .22 rifle and .410 shot gun at the tender age of 10 (oddly the same year I got a concertina). Now with great regret wish I could undo taking the duck, grouse and doves I hunted as a youth. I'm fussed at from time to time by me Darlin' on the amount of feed I leave out for the creatures who pass through my garden. I've a lot to atone for in that area and will continue to do so as long as I am able.

 

By all means take your concertina (sit close to the door though) .

 

Al, thank you for your kind words.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Mark Evans

[asdormire]

You mean like Kleenex is facial tissue. I think the only folks this really matters to is Gibson who absorbed OMI.

 

Sorry for looking at your location and assuming you are a Yankee. Different parts of the mountains, slightly different opinions, same type of rusty brains.

 

Alan

[Mark Evans]

You mean like Kleenex is facial tissue. I think the only folks this really matters to is Gibson who absorbed OMI.

 

Sorry for looking at your location and assuming you are a Yankee. Different parts of the mountains, slightly different opinions, same type of rusty brains.

 

Alan

 

 

Yeah, I guess I do. Gibson's got enought dough (took some of mine over the years).

 

Don't sweat the Yankee thing. Nice to have you on Cnet and I have enjoyed your posts and our exchange.

[Jody Kruskal]

Bluegrass is mostly defined by the banjo....

Nope.

 

Bluegrass is mostly defined by folks who feel a need to "define" things, people who are more concerned with putting things in pigeonholes than in making music.

 

I prefer to leave pigeonholes to the pigeons, and play music with those who don't care what you call it.

Well Jim... If you follow that reasoning then everything is everything and everything is the same. Recognizing, understanding and celebrating differences is valid in my book. Definitions are how we describe the differences. Musical reality comes first, then we start talking and analyzing and defining... if you like to do that sort of thing, but it all comes down to; if it sounds good then it is good.

 

Pigeonholing aside, bluegrass is so stylized and highly defined that it’s a tough row to hoe to make it work for the concertina player. It’s possible that it could be done, but I’ve never been satisfied with my own attempts.

 

Some genres are more tightly defined than others and I think bluegrass is one of those. I’ve listened to lots of bluegrass over the last 35 years, starting with a discounted and notched LP by the Country Gentlemen that still sounds good to me.

 

When I’ve played bluegrass, the concertina sound seems to fight against the music. There is not much wiggle room for me and I have to walk a very narrow road. The traditional picked stringed instruments all have a sharp attack and quick decay. I find that the concertina can tend to dominate and not leave those all-important silences between notes that are part of what makes bluegrass so exciting.

 

With old-time music, the concertina (at least the Anglo) seems to work much better and sounds great to my ear. The concertina has something to add without making old-time into something else. Perhaps that’s because old-time is a wider and more inclusive genre than bluegrass? Listen to this Puncheon Floor/Bell Cow track, the March entry on my Tune of the Month page, and the first cut from my latest CD, Poor Little Liza Jane. My ear says yes to this sound.

[JimLucas]

Bluegrass is mostly defined by folks who feel a need to "define" things, people who are more concerned with putting things in pigeonholes than in making music.

 

I prefer to leave pigeonholes to the pigeons, and play music with those who don't care what you call it.

Well Jim... If you follow that reasoning then everything is everything and everything is the same.

I think that's more "leading" the reasoning than "following" it. It's only one of many directions it can be led, and not one I'd choose.

 

I don't say that there aren't differences, but my way of viewing the world contains fuzziness, gaps, overlaps, discontinuities.... I prefer "descriptions" and "explanations" to "definitions", because all too often the latter word is used to imply fiat from an absolute power, when in fact it's simply the personal viewpoint of the person trying to ram them down our throats.

 

Recognizing, understanding and celebrating differences is valid in my book.

I quite agree.

 

Definitions are how we describe the differences. Musical reality comes first, then we start talking and analyzing and defining... if you like to do that sort of thing, but it all comes down to; if it sounds good then it is good.

I agree that that's how it should be. Some don't. Some think that the music should be subservient to the "definition". It's that attitude that I'm objecting to, nothing more.

[Jody Kruskal]

Fair enough Jim.

 

Stevejay thinks the banjo defines blugrass and I have strong feelings about key instruments as well. You can play contras without a fiddle but if I had to pick one instrument that was going to play a contra dance solo it would be the fiddle. Bluegrass is ensemble music but if you were to pick one instrument to play those tunes solo and state the style... that would be the banjo. I'm not sure if old-time has the same kind of single mindedness. Could be fiddle, banjo, voice, I'm not sure. However, banjo says old backwoods southern country to my ear and that's why I was so pleased to bring two banjo players into my project. Part of what makes old-time concertina sound right is the company you keep.

[Mark Evans]

Now this discussion is getting really interesting...

 

It tickles me that the banjo defines bluegrass. Lord help me, but it does. Banjo is my second instrument and I enjoy playing Scruggs style. I don't see how your Jefferies could dominate a bluegrass jam without the agreement of the banjo players in the room. Picking a little closer to the bridge on any half-way decent banjo with a resonator and good set of medium strings will wash the whole room out to sea .

 

Banjo as a symbol for bluegrass encompasses the unique nature of all American music and why I find it all so compelling....SLAVERY. Had my ancestors not embraced our great sin with such zeal, the sweet tones and tastes of so much of our culture (yes, I said culture) simply would not be.

 

We all love forms and well defined boundries, but when I look at the body of American music, I see a very large scarred liveoak tree with a massive root system above and below ground and thick twisted branches that intertwine and spread out in every direction, giving shade and revival to all who choose.

[Henrik Müller]

Now this discussion is getting really interesting...

...

It is indeed! I can now blushingly admit that (frailing) banjo is my second instrument (Okay - it's out!).

 

(I listened to a couple of your tunes, Jody, and I feel that the Anglo fits well into oldtime, provided the company one keeps is right ).

 

/Henrik

[Robin Harrison]

................did any one go to John Mock's web site, posted by Leo ?

http://www.johnmock.net/

There are two solo concertina pieces, original compositions, that are beautiful.Great playing too.

Robin

[Jody Kruskal]

Now this discussion is getting really interesting...

 

Banjo as a symbol for bluegrass encompasses the unique nature of all American music and why I find it all so compelling....SLAVERY. Had my ancestors not embraced our great sin with such zeal, the sweet tones and tastes of so much of our culture (yes, I said culture) simply would not be.

Yup, what a wild ride.

 

My friend Schlomo Pestcoe is interested in this subject too. He sent me these links which you might find as fasinating as I did. Take a look and a listen to a plausible view of the roots of the banjo alive and well in Ghana today.

 

http://www.myspace.com/akonting

http://www.myspace.com/danieljatta

[Mark Evans]

My friend Schlomo Pestcoe is interested in this subject too. He sent me these links which you might find as fasinating as I did. Take a look and a listen to a plausible view of the roots of the banjo alive and well in Ghana today.

 

http://www.myspace.com/akonting

http://www.myspace.com/danieljatta

 

 

Very cool indeed. I've been playing the Georgia Sea Island recordings from the 50's for my students. There is one cut with the men from group B singing a fishing song with a reed fife and a homemade banjo which sounds quite like the akonting. I wish I could see a picture of it.

 

By the way I love the name Schlomo.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Mark Evans

[Dan Worrall]

My friend Schlomo Pestcoe is interested in this subject too. He sent me these links which you might find as fasinating as I did. Take a look and a listen to a plausible view of the roots of the banjo alive and well in Ghana today.

 

http://www.myspace.com/akonting

http://www.myspace.com/danieljatta

 

 

Very cool indeed. I've been playing the Georgia Sea Island recordings from the 50's for my students. There is one cut with the men from group B singing a fishing song with a reed fife and a homemade banjo which sounds quite like the akonting. I wish I could see a picture of it.

 

By the way I love the name Schlomo.

Mark, Jody,

 

FYI...just in case you haven't heard of them yet....there is a hot new all African-American old time string band playing in the Piedmont, called the Carolina Chocolate Drops. Very fine sound and steeped in the local traditions there (http://www.sankofastrings.com/ccd/ ). As you know, old time southern string band music came largely from the playing of African American slaves. They made the music for many of the plantation dances in those times. Made to play the English/Irish tunes of their masters for those dances, they gave the music an African backbeat rhythm which still distinguishes old time music from, say, Irish or English music. After the Civil War, most blacks dropped out of this genre and went on to other things...no doubt it had unpleasant associations for most of them...and white southerners had by then picked up the rhythm. Some black fiddle and banjo players continue in places like the Piedmont however...and the young members of the CCD are clearly influenced by some of the old timers. At any rate, the CCD are a very welcome sound and well worth a listen...string band music is really getting back to its roots.

[Mark Evans]

Thank you Dan. As I listened to them on my space I as literaly shaking. Wonderful, I'm deeply moved. All the CD's I must buy.

 

They are indeed well worth a listen and plenty of the right folks know it by the perstigious festivals that have booked them...wow!